I have the Wisdom book with bankruptcy Law!

[Mela99]

This could be a clue to the scar tissue/forgiveness question! If your sister behaves badly, and it bothers you, then you're the problem. Suck it up, develop a thicker skin, forgive her completely, and be sure to give her your favorite possession to make sure there are no hard feelings.

The whole situation just screams "I can misbehave and be rewarded for it" to me.

[artdecades]

I would be concerned about ATI going after you for copyright infringement if you post scans beyond fair use, as a reminder re:scans

Facts aren't copyrightable, but as these are "facts" and not facts, I am not sure.

Anyway, I am excited to see this. my sister is a corporate bankruptcy attorney and i bet she'd get a kick out of this.

[Megan]

Facts aren't copyrightable, but as these are "facts" and not facts, I am not sure.

Anyway, I am excited to see this. my sister is a corporate bankruptcy attorney and i bet she'd get a kick out of this.

I'm assuming there is material in these beyond pure fact (or "fact"). As such, there's certainly copyrightable material in this - wording, examples, arguments, etc. Fair use in the US is pretty hard to pin down - I used to work in an archive and we had a set of files regarding individual presses' stances on photocopying pamphlets and other short works that I would have to check before photocopying pages for people. Fair use in nonacademic settings is even more contestable, since that level of leniency often disappears. I just thought I'd remind the OP, as I can see ATI going after a Jingerite for copyright violation

[artdecades]

I'm assuming there is material in these beyond pure fact (or "fact"). As such, there's certainly copyrightable material in this - wording, examples, arguments, etc. Fair use in the US is pretty hard to pin down - I used to work in an archive and we had a set of files regarding individual presses' stances on photocopying pamphlets and other short works that I would have to check before photocopying pages for people. Fair use in nonacademic settings is even more contestable, since that level of leniency often disappears. I just thought I'd remind the OP, as I can see ATI going after a Jingerite for copyright violation

Oh I know, I just got out of my IP and Copyright Law for Librarians and Archivists Class. While we aren't a non-profit, I think we have a pretty good parody case anyway. But I know that some people are litigious and will go after people just cause.

[FloraDoraDolly]

It's odd that ATI would use a lesson on bankruptcy, of all things, to showcase their program. How many new homeschooling parents would look at that and think, "Wow! That's what I want my 6-year-old to learn!" I've examined materials from A Beka and Bob Jones University, and that seems more in line with what most Christian parents are looking for in a homeschooling program.

[Many_Spaynes]

Wow, just looked at the online sample. The lesson plan seems to be written by someone out of their mind on meth just free associating. Let's talk about mourning & that reminds me of plows, so let's talk about those, and did you know tears are antibacterial & where's my Bible & hey, let's sing! I was going to say that there's no way that offers a coherent body of info to a kid but then I realized adults would be just as baffled -- except Michelle, of course, this seems right up her perpendicular alley.

[kaetrin]

They have an admissions office?

Yes, you can't just sign up and buy materials. You have to apply for membership.

[salex]

Yes, you can't just sign up and buy materials. You have to apply for membership.

You wouldn't want the secrets of the universe falling into the wrong hands....

[nelliebelle1197]

I read the sample and I am appalled. So people really use these for teaching their children actual stuff? I am terrified.

[Talitha Cumi]

My e-mail was sooo funny

Hello

I was looking on your website and noticed the samples would not show up on our computer. We are looking into getting a new computer. I was wondering if we could receive samples of the ATI program through the mail. We have been so blessed to have found the Lord about 6 years ago and heard your program is really wonderful.

My daughter is 4 years old, so we wouldn't start homeschooling until next year however I want to get a 'jump start'. My husband is very interested in your planner So could we possibly get a copy of that? He wanted to know how the week is set up since I am pregnant with another little one and he wants to oversee the program for the first year of we decide to go with ATI. We will pay for the cost of the planner.

Thank You!

I then gave a name and address

This is the response

Dear Mr. and Mrs. Homeschoolmomma1,

Thank you for your interest in ATI. We would love to send you an information package with some sample material and further information about ATI! Unfortunately we are not able to send a weekly planner at this point because it is part the family materials package for ATI families. I have attached a few pages form the planner that will hopefully give you an idea of what it is.

Please don’t hesitate to contact us with any other questions

In Christ,

Kevin Boyes

ATI Admissions

ati@iblp.org

630-323-9800

The dude scanned pages of the planner for me

Nicely done with the grammar mistakes! :clap:

[funpal]

It's men like Gothard that Jesus warned us about being false prophet! Gothard gives Christians a bad name. It's nothing but a cult! Forgiveness and being forgiven have Nothing to do with illnesses! Forgiveness for the Christian means grace through Jesus. Everyone is able to be forgiven if they ask.

This isn't school material but propagnda for Gothard cult. No wonder the Duggars are under educated!

[homeschoolmomma1]

Nicely done with the grammar mistakes! :clap:

Thank You! I also found the Lord 6 years ago :)

[Jana814]

Jessa was annoying and misbehaving, and Jana asked her parents to step in. They told her to be nice to Jessa and forced her to hand over her beloved jewelry box to her.

That's horrible!! I really never got their parenting style but doing that is just nuts!! Do u know if she gave it to her. Also why would they have Jana do that!

[Rescinded and Mended]

Apparently, Jana really did give Jessa the box. There was some kind of public event awhile back. The Duggars were there, Jana talked about the incident a little, and she actually teared up, or so I heard.

[kaetrin]

Wow, just looked at the online sample. The lesson plan seems to be written by someone out of their mind on meth just free associating. Let's talk about mourning & that reminds me of plows, so let's talk about those, and did you know tears are antibacterial & where's my Bible & hey, let's sing! I was going to say that there's no way that offers a coherent body of info to a kid but then I realized adults would be just as baffled -- except Michelle, of course, this seems right up her perpendicular alley.

It's meant to be a unit-study structure, but the cohesiveness of the unit is provided by the Bible passage. (The whole series of Wisdom Books covers the Sermon on the Mount.) So no individual subject is studied in any organized way, and often the connection to the Bible verse is strained at best. But hey, "Bible-centered education", right?

I was frustrated with it even as a kid, because, for instance, I was really interested in history but the history lessons were all hopelessly disconnected from each other. Like WW2 one month and John Wyclife the next and Alexander Graham Bell the next. (I'm making up those examples but you get the gist. Lots of moralizing biography and no coherence.) Fortunately for my history education, I read a lot on my own. My science education on the other hand... The combination of misinformation, weird spiritual analogies, incoherent structure, and no outside supplementation on that particular subject means that I know next to nothing about science. :embarrassed:

[docmom]

It's meant to be a unit-study structure, but the cohesiveness of the unit is provided by the Bible passage. (The whole series of Wisdom Books covers the Sermon on the Mount.) So no individual subject is studied in any organized way, and often the connection to the Bible verse is strained at best. But hey, "Bible-centered education", right?

I was frustrated with it even as a kid, because, for instance, I was really interested in history but the history lessons were all hopelessly disconnected from each other. Like WW2 one month and John Wyclife the next and Alexander Graham Bell the next. (I'm making up those examples but you get the gist. Lots of moralizing biography and no coherence.) Fortunately for my history education, I read a lot on my own. My science education on the other hand... The combination of misinformation, weird spiritual analogies, incoherent structure, and no outside supplementation on that particular subject means that I know next to nothing about science. :embarrassed:

Weird, I don't remember anywhere in the Sermon on the Mount Jesus threatening unforgiving people with RA.

[thoughtful]

Weird, I don't remember anywhere in the Sermon on the Mount Jesus threatening unforgiving people with RA.

Matthew 5:11A (it got lost because the ink ran in the rain):

Blessed are ye when ye forgivest others, for thy joints shall not ache; thy knee runneth over with synovial fluid, thy elbow curseth not when kneading dough, thy shoulder hath no complaint at the tilling of soil, and thou shall dwell in the house of the limber forever.

That's KJV, of course.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

The combination of misinformation, weird spiritual analogies, incoherent structure, and no outside supplementation on that particular subject means that I know next to nothing about science.

It's the incoherent structure that I find most problematic. Teaching facts (or 'facts") in a jumble with no relationship connecting them makes them more difficult to remember. A far more alarming consequence would be that the students are forced to think in a non-logical or non-linear fashion, which must do untold damage to their cognitive functions. It's like being taught by a disturbed brain spewing forth garbage in a stream and trying to make some sense of it. How did Gothard ever convince anyone to pay for these materials?!

[doggie]

because he as many have through history can walk the walk and talk the talk and take advantage of the natural gullibility of the devout religious. I mean look at televangelists and the money they rake in.

[Swamptribe]

The same way that Scientology and other cults get folks to pay for these materials. The idea is, that if they don't make sense to you, then there is something wrong with you, not the materials The 'authority' is never wrong, and not to be questioned. Once they accept the cult leader as the an authority over their lives they pretty much give up their ability to think for themselves. Cults such as this offer a black and white guide for members to follow; they offer them a group to belong to and identify with, and the idea that somebody out there is way smarter and wiser than they are. That they can tap into this wisdom if they just listen and follow.

[Talitha Cumi]

Apparently, Jana really did give Jessa the box. There was some kind of public event awhile back. The Duggars were there, Jana talked about the incident a little, and she actually teared up, or so I heard.

She definitely got teary; it wasn't full outright sobbing, but definitely crying.

[doggie]

The same way that Scientology and other cults get folks to pay for these materials. The idea is, that if they don't make sense to you, then there is something wrong with you, not the materials The 'authority' is never wrong, and not to be questioned. Once they accept the cult leader as the an authority over their lives they pretty much give up their ability to think for themselves. Cults such as this offer a black and white guide for members to follow; they offer them a group to belong to and identify with, and the idea that somebody out there is way smarter and wiser than they are. That they can tap into this wisdom if they just listen and follow.

Scientology is about the worst about money. you really can't get far unless you have a lot of money. I know a fool who had to get a third mortgage on their business so he could advance.

[Eater of Worlds]

Apparently I can get rid of my RA by forgiving. Now, let me just make up someone in my life that did something that I have not forgiven, so I can forgive them and have un-unforgiveness in my life and painfree joints!

[ThisOlGirl]

I haven't read the links, and maybe I should before I ask this question, but--why do these ATI folks need to know about bankruptcy law of they're supposed to be debt free?

Ok, got that out of my system, gonna stop being a lazy bones and read the links.

[VooDooChild]

Ooo,ooo can I answer the medical questions??? I have an MD so it should be OK..Let's see:

None. Rheumatoid arthritis results from a complex interaction between genes and environment, leading to a breakdown of immune tolerance and synovial inflammation. The initiation of RA is a combination of pre-determined (genetic) and stochastic (random) events. Susceptibility to RA is clearly defined by a pattern of inherited genes, with the HLA major histocompatability genes as the most important. However, scores of minor genes that include cytokine promoters, T cell signaling genes, and many others, contribute to susceptibility and severity. Epigenetic influences, such as hypomethylation of DNA or expression of microRNAs, can also increase pro-inflammatory gene expression.

Not one bit of evidence that unforgiveness (is that a word?) is involved

It doesn't.

I heart you docmom! Why can't my own doc talk to me this way instead of being all vague and simple? Now I'd be interested in hearing how organized religion can lead to ulcers.

Also, early in our homeschool journey a church mom recommended Wisdumb books to me. When I looked into them it took me less than a minute to be like "Ummmm, Yeah, no."