Feminism unintentionally made women fat and ugly

[antares]

akarlin.com/2012/08/22/feminism-and-obesity-are-self-reinforcing/

[antares]

bumpy bump

[August]

What's wrong with being fat and ugly?

[Cleopatra7]

This doesn't add up. The ideal woman for most of the pre-feminist past (in the West, at least) would have been considered"ugly" by modern standard: fairly zaftig (useful for birthing babies, natch), bosomy, no makeup, and no aesthetic shaving. A look at 19th century photos illustrates how different people looked back then. Many people of both sexes were lucky if they could maintain a full set of teeth into middle age. The idea of the "hot housewife" only came into existetence with the rise of a commercial society that could provide cheap, store-bought clothes, market cosmetics to "respectable women " (before the age of Hollywood, only prostitutes and actresses wore makeup), labor-saving devices, and sell magazines that sold a uniform notion of beauty.

[fundiemental]

This doesn't add up. The ideal woman for most of the pre-feminist past (in the West, at least) would have been considered"ugly" by modern standard: fairly zaftig (useful for birthing babies, natch), bosomy, no makeup, and no aesthetic shaving. A look at 19th century photos illustrates how different people looked back then. Many people of both sexes were lucky if they could maintain a full set of teeth into middle age. The idea of the "hot housewife" only came into existetence with the rise of a commercial society that could provide cheap, store-bought clothes, market cosmetics to "respectable women " (before the age of Hollywood, only prostitutes and actresses wore makeup), labor-saving devices, and sell magazines that sold a uniform notion of beauty.

I'm trying to figure out how corsets fit into your assessment (which is excellent and, I think, largely accurate). I think that there have always been standards for women to try to fit into, it's just that it seems so much more brutal and ridiculous now.

[FloraKitty35]

Wow what an asshole.

[Dysfundamental]

The US's "most beautiful" woman (per her PR, but she was a singer, actor, and professional beauty with adoring fans) of the 1890s was Lillian Russell. 5'2", 185 pounds. [link=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File]Here's a pinup[/link].

Of course, she was a suffragist as well...

[Widget]

I don't think much has changed. The ideal has always been what makes the largest majority of women feel horrible about themselves.

Lillian Russel represented a largely unachievable goal for most women at that time. Few had enough excess food and free time to maintain a plump, pale, extreme hourglass figure.

The ideal in the modern period of easy accessibility of calories has naturally shifted to the opposite end of the spectrum. The harder to achieve goal of being extremely thin.

[No Cure for Stupid]

The US's "most beautiful" woman (per her PR, but she was a singer, actor, and professional beauty with adoring fans) of the 1890s was Lillian Russell. 5'2", 185 pounds. [link=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File]Here's a pinup[/link].

Of course, she was a suffragist as well...

She's a lovely lady, even by today's standards. Except, you know, that she's fat...

It's interesting how appearance trends change. Twenty years ago, women were allowed to have pubic hair. Sixty years ago, no lady would be seen in public without a dress, hat, and gloves. A hundred years ago women were expected to wear corsets. Three-hundred years ago, women and men wore powdered wigs.

Personally, I think women look better with curves. Maybe it's just because I'm a big girl myself.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

I've been reading a lot about the history of advertisement lately and so much of the way we look today has been promulgated by advertisers in order to sell more product. For example, Clairol. Before they invented an easy way to dye your hair at home, the only people coloring their hair were actresses and prostitutes. Then came the "Does she or doesn't she?" ad and within a few years it became routine and acceptable for ordinary women to dye their hair. Now we are constantly being told that having grey hair ages you and how much younger you will look covering up the grey. Or going blonde will make you a fun person. Or dying your hair red will make you a sex kitten.

I find the whole idea that Republican women are pretty and Democratic women are ugly to be a simple-minded idea that is mostly based on comparing Hilary Clinton to Sarah Palin. For a certain conservative, Patriarchal segment of the US, the most important, sometimes the only value to a woman is her appearance. Brains, education, experience are not important to them. It isn't that the Feminist movement has turned women ugly and fat, it is that the Feminist movement has told women that their appearance is not their sole worth to society. Older women can have something to contribute. Women who are not flawlessly beautiful can do the job just as well (unless your job is lap dancer or porn star.)

I remember when the weekly weigh in and age limit was changed for airline stewardesses. My god. You would have thought that the sky was falling in and there was so much complaining about old, fat stewardesses. Their job is to serve you a can of coke and make sure your seatbelt is fastened. It doesn't take a beauty contestant to carry out their responsibilities.

[Hane]

Mark Twain once said, "I'd rather get into bed with Lillian Russell stark naked than with Ulysses S. Grant in full battle regalia."

I've spent decades aware that I was NEVER quite thin or pretty enough (even at 19 and 5'3" and 127 pounds). So now I've opted out. It's tremendously freeing.

[docmom]

You've all obviously been neglecting to read your femininst party dominion manifesto. Making all women fat and ugly is step number 6 on the path to world domination.

[salex]

akarlin.com/2012/08/22/feminism-and-obesity-are-self-reinforcing/

A few things.

If Feminism caused obesity in women, what caused obesity in men?

I have a much simpler explanation for obesity in the USA.

As a nation, we quit smoking and gained weight. People tend to soothe themselves somehow... and food replaced cigs for a lot of people.

Smoking rates went from 42% of the overall population in 1962 to just under 21% in 2007. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762370.html

Meanwhile The U.S. obesity prevalence increased from 13 percent to 32 percent between the 1960s and 2004, according to researchers at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Center for Human Nutrition. http://www.jhsph.edu/publichealthnews/p ... esity.html

I know that correlation is not causation-- but a 21% decrease in smoking and a 19% increase in obesity at roughly the same time period seems to me to be more than coincidence, given, as I said, that many people tend to deal with stress by putting something (cig or cookie) in their mouths.

This link between not smoking and obesity is often dismissed... but I think that is in part because it makes things less black and white about what is good and what isn't and that makes both anti obesity and anti smoking campaigns more difficult.

[salex]

Mark Twain once said, "I'd rather get into bed with Lillian Russell stark naked than with Ulysses S. Grant in full battle regalia."

totally Off topic, but this made me think of our friend Doug the tool... I am not sure he could say this! Sorry for the thread HiJack...

[CynicMom]

Studies have consistently found that people assume that attractive people are more likely to be members of the same party as them. It's a cognitive bias.

[Cleopatra7]

I'm trying to figure out how corsets fit into your assessment (which is excellent and, I think, largely accurate). I think that there have always been standards for women to try to fit into, it's just that it seems so much more brutal and ridiculous now.

I put corsets in the same class as footbinding paraphenalia and modern breast implants; dangerous devices meant to distort the female body to fit some ridiculous, un-natual standard of beauty. The goal of a whalebone corset was to create a "fashionable sillhouette," (i.e., an hour-glass figure). However, it also led to myriad health problems, including death. People understood that tight-laced corsets were dangerous, but few women wanted to face social ridicule by going without them: [link=]http://blog.biodiversitylibrary.org/2013/06/death-by-corset-nineteenth-century-book.html[/link] (link not broken, because it's a scholarly site). You can replace "corset" with "breast implants," and the situation will be the same. While the modern feminist movement has made us more aware of how damaging unrealistic standards of beauty are, few women are willing to challenge them, lest they be seen as "ugly man-hating feminists."

[church_of_dog]

A few things.

If Feminism caused obesity in women, what caused obesity in men?

I have a much simpler explanation for obesity in the USA.

As a nation, we quit smoking and gained weight. People tend to soothe themselves somehow... and food replaced cigs for a lot of people.

I think that's part of it, but not the whole story. I'm currently reading Salt Sugar Fat http://www.amazon.com/Salt-Sugar-Fat-Gi ... 1400069807 and the degree to which marketing of fat-causing foods was imposed upon people in deceitful ways is astounding. I do recommend this book. We are each responsible for our own health, what we eat, our activity level, etc, -- but when the culture trains people to trust big business, and then big business intentionally deceives people, that is wrong any way you look at it...

I put corsets in the same class as footbinding paraphenalia and modern breast implants; dangerous devices meant to distort the female body to fit some ridiculous, un-natual standard of beauty. The goal of a whalebone corset was to create a "fashionable sillhouette," (i.e., an hour-glass figure). However, it also led to myriad health problems, including death. People understood that tight-laced corsets were dangerous, but few women wanted to face social ridicule by going without them: [link=]http://blog.biodiversitylibrary.org/2013/06/death-by-corset-nineteenth-century-book.html[/link] (link not broken, because it's a scholarly site). You can replace "corset" with "breast implants," and the situation will be the same. While the modern feminist movement has made us more aware of how damaging unrealistic standards of beauty are, few women are willing to challenge them, lest they be seen as "ugly man-hating feminists."

I remember reading about "fainting couches" which would be located just inside the doorway of a business establishment. It was there because women couldn't catch their breath while walking corseted, so often when they would enter a store they would need to rest before they could continue on...

[salex]

I think that's part of it, but not the whole story. I'm currently reading Salt Sugar Fat [link=]http://www.amazon.com/Salt-Sugar-Fat-Giants-Hooked/dp/1400069807[/link] and the degree to which marketing of fat-causing foods was imposed upon people in deceitful ways is astounding. I do recommend this book. We are each responsible for our own health, what we eat, our activity level, etc, -- but when the culture trains people to trust big business, and then big business intentionally deceives people, that is wrong any way you look at it...

My activity level is part of it, I know. But picture of my grandmother on my father's side, and her mother, would suggest that even back in the day, when they weren't sitting at a computer for work all day, women in my family were round and sturdy... and built low to the ground.

[twinmama]

Michelle Duggar started out pretty and skinny, then had a gazillion pregnancies and births and now look at her! I don't think it was feminism that did it to her, I think it was her insane belief in becoming a broodmare. Pretty much no one is going to live their crazy christian non-feminist ideals (babies, babies babies nonstop) and come out the other end with a tight skinny body.

Heck, I've only had one pregnancy (albeit twins) and my formerly flat tummy is pouchy after I eat now.

[notacleverpony]

I put corsets in the same class as footbinding paraphenalia and modern breast implants; dangerous devices meant to distort the female body to fit some ridiculous, un-natual standard of beauty. The goal of a whalebone corset was to create a "fashionable sillhouette," (i.e., an hour-glass figure). However, it also led to myriad health problems, including death. People understood that tight-laced corsets were dangerous, but few women wanted to face social ridicule by going without them: [link=]http://blog.biodiversitylibrary.org/2013/06/death-by-corset-nineteenth-century-book.html[/link] (link not broken, because it's a scholarly site). You can replace "corset" with "breast implants," and the situation will be the same. While the modern feminist movement has made us more aware of how damaging unrealistic standards of beauty are, few women are willing to challenge them, lest they be seen as "ugly man-hating feminists."

Off Topic Warning: In defense of the corset, I own and wear several steel-boned corsets for steampunk/Ren Faire/LARP-type event. Corsets back in the late 1800s had a definite goal to shoot for- the 18 to 20 inch waist. No matter a woman's actual waist size, the point of the corset was to mold it to reach that specific (and often unreachable) circumference. That sort of standard is what caused the types of deformities listed in that book you mentioned.

Modern corsets, on the other hand, are subjective to the person in question: they come in a variety of sizes and only cinch in 4 to 6 inches from the person's resting waist size. They're perfectly safe and comfortable to wear for limited times, and they really help a person's posture and respiration if seated correctly. Of course, after a 10 hour event, it's definitely time to put it away. The two best feelings with a corset are putting it on and taking it off. ^_^

If anyone's interested in corsetry, I highly recommend Corset Deal, which sells the same high-quality steel and brocade corsets you'd get at a big Ren Faire, but for about a quarter of the price. Just measure your waist in inches (without sucking it in), subtract 4, and that's your corset size. They even do custom pieces!

[Handmaiden of Dog]

Oh gosh If you wanted to go into why people are fatter you would have an enormous long list. It isn't just an over-abundance of year-round plentiful food items packaged in ways to entice us, it isn't just lower levels of activity*, and it certainly is not because many people stopped smoking (I know plenty of fat people who smoke.) You also have to talk about how we walk so much less because our neighborhoods don't have sidewalks and our supermarkets are all miles away. We also have air conditioning and heating to keep us comfortable year round instead of sweating and shivering the pounds off.

*My favorite example of this is car windows: they went from manual crank to push button. Who remembers cranking windows? It took a bit of effort.

I have always wanted to try a corset because I grew up reading a lot of Victorian literature so the long dress with the corseted waist was my ideal of femininity. However I worry about digestive problems. Goodness knows the tight waist on my smallest jeans can cause me a bellyache if I wear it too long

[moodygirl86]

Nice of this person to acknowledge it was accidental and not a feminazi conspiracy *sarcasm*

[Talitha Cumi]

A few things.

If Feminism caused obesity in women, what caused obesity in men?

Feminism. DUH.

Things feminism is also responsible for:

Anorexia

Bulimia

Orthorexia (eating only exactly what a particular diet says you should)

Strength training instead of cardio

Cardio training instead of strength

Flexibility training, just in general

Salad

Donuts

Sit-down restaurants

Drive-thrus

HFCS

Cane sugar

Kale

And the list goes on...

[fun2beme]

Talitha - That was wonderful! I had a rough week taking care of a sick mom and so needed a good laugh.

Still snickering at kale.

[Cleopatra7]

I love kale, and eat it almost every day. It's supposed to be one of the best foods one can eat. Thanks feminism!