A Review of Kirk Cameron's Marriage Seminar

[bbfreethinker]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... g-event-2/

It was refreshing to see him give advice to the men, and not put all the blame on the women, until I read his reasoning:

If something is wrong with a company, go to the CEO. If something is wrong with a team, go to the coach. Us men have been given by God the role of leadership.

[GenerationCedarchip]

To me, the scary part of that excerpt is that it's not particularly fundie. That reads like very standard mainstream evangelical writing.

[debrand]

“Is there something other than my blind faith in evolution and atheism?†Later in the evening, he made a reference to Creationism: “The same guy who designed our universe also designed our marriages. And I’ve read his manual. And his word trumps Oprah’s every time.†(“Amens†from the audience.)

What the heck is up with the Oprah hate? I'm not a fan of Oprah but she's done some good things and I don't have any knee jerk reaction against her? Does the fact that many of her viewers are female disturb Kirk and friends?

1.Marriage is awesome. Marriage doesn’t fail. Marriage was designed by God. We fail.

2.There’s only one person on the planet that I can change, and that is myself.

3.You must have an effective war strategy to destroy sin in your life.

The first one bothers me. Marriages do fail and not always because the couple have done anything wrong. Sometimes two people grow apart and all the work in the world won't lead to a happy marriage. Also, I could see an abused person taking the advice too far. The second one is basically true. You can't force someone to change. That doesn't meant that you dont' talk to your spouse or don't ask them to change. I coud see this bit of advice being misused also. As far as the third, I don't know what to say about that one

Fuzzy logic right out of the gate with number one. Marriage was designed by God, so marriage can’t fail. We were designed by God, but we can fail? Which is it? The three points were elaborately illustrated by Cameron. He became most fired up when discussing principle number three. “Pornography and sexual immorality will destroy you. It devours people in their thought lives, all the while being hidden to others. Burning bridges to your feeding grounds [sin] only works for a while.â€

I agree. The advice for sometimes complicated problems is insulting. His fixation on sexual sins is also disturbing but makes me wonder what is going on in his life.

He did not expand on this comment. But the most worrisome statement he made was that we needed to “build a brand new nation and use the Bible as a blueprint

That is a bothersome statement

[kpmom]

Men are to be "Jesus Christ to their wives"? WTF?

[kpmom]

duplicate post

[bbfreethinker]

Oops, somehow this topic got posted twice, can they be merged?

[debrand]

Where exactly does he get "Men are to be Jesus Christ to their wives."? How is that not blasphemy? And very strange.

This isn't the first time that I heard that sentiment but I don't remember where I else that I heard it

[demgirl]

Oops, somehow this topic got posted twice, can they be merged?

Yup. Dunzo.

Kirk Cameron creeps me out. Like, a lot. And so does his super creepy sister Candice Cameron Bure. I used to love Full House reruns but she's ruined that for me.

[maybeizfundie]

Where exactly does he get "Men are to be Jesus Christ to their wives."? How is that not blasphemy? And very strange.

From here, I would imagine:

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.â€[c] 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

(Ephesians 5)

I would guess that he meant, as the Scripture does, not that men are to be God to their wife (which would be blasphemy), but that men are to sacrifice themselves for the sake of their wife, using Jesus as their example. Even to the point of death, but for most people that would involve laying down personal wants and needs in order to love and care for his wife. It also goes along with the Christian concept that marriage is a "picture" of the relationship between Jesus and the Church, marriage being the physical symbol of of a spiritual concept.

Anyhoo, that was longer than I intended. :oops: But that is where the idea comes from.

[liltwinstar]

"Marriage doesn't fail" - really? Marriage is not this nebulous 3rd party out there - marriage is the relationship of two people. And those relationships fail all the time. Heck, even non-marriage relationships fail sometimes!! And how is an institution - a piece of paper - more important than the two people involved in the relationship?

Of course divorce is painful and sad - but so is living in a bad marriage. So I don't understand this idol that they've made of marriage. I really don't. I mean, I'm happily married, and I believe in marriage rights for gay people and all of that, so I know that marriage can be a good thing. It can also be a painful thing, an ugly thing, an abusive thing, etc etc.

Also? Not taking advice from ol' Kirk. His character in Fireproof scared me (even though the violence was pretty mild, his anger and manipulation behind it was terrifying), so I really don't care to listen to anything he has to say. Plus, he can't get mainstream acting jobs apparently, so I'm guessing this marriage seminar thing is just a way to get $$.

[debrand]

4.Protect her.

What do I need protection from? My life is boring.

This sounds like the type of advice that makes the listener feel good and powerful without needing any type of activity on their part.

[Bellatrix]

Kirk Cameron creeps me out. Like, a lot. And so does his super creepy sister Candice Cameron Bure. I used to love Full House reruns but she's ruined that for me.

I'm such a fool. I didn't even connect those two Camerons! Of course, now it's obvious that they're from the same family. Duh! :doh:

[Terrie]

Study Her

Is there a Wife 101 course to get started? I'm going to assume this class makes the Bible the required text, but are there any recommended ones? Also, is there a final exam or a paper?

Protect Her

This just makes me think of those sealing coats for your deck.

[xReems]

Why do these people constantly want to bring this country up in a Christian fashion and argue how we're steering away from a Christian foundation?! First off, this nation was NOT built on Christian faith. Secondly, no thank you, I do not want this nation to use the Bible as a blueprint.

Secondly, marriages fail all the time but not because we're at fault. I know some people who divorced because of being in an abusive relationship but I'm sure God definitely frowned upon the divorce since the couples did not give their marriage another shot, right? I mean those who divorced because of that reason have sinned :roll:

[longskirtlotsakids]

Men are to be "Jesus Christ to their wives"? WTF?

So when my husband pisses me off I get to crucify him? Do I at least get the 30 pieces of silver?

[Joykins]

Men are to be "Jesus Christ to their wives"? WTF?

I know...I may "eat his flesh" but there's no way I'll "drink his blood."

[Guest Anonymous]

I know...I may "eat his flesh" but there's no way I'll "drink his blood."

You owe me a keyboard! I just spewed coffee all over this one.

[lilwriter85]

Yup. Dunzo.

Kirk Cameron creeps me out. Like, a lot. And so does his super creepy sister Candice Cameron Bure. I used to love Full House reruns but she's ruined that for me.

Kirk does creep me out with how he sometimes acts. He and Candace used to be very likable people back in the 80's and 90's. Kirk is pretty smug now and Candace is becoming smug too. I can't really watch Full House reruns anymore for a few reasons and Candace is one of those reasons.

[deborahlynn1979]

There’s only one person on the planet that I can change, and that is myself.

If he really believes that THIS is true, what's the point of evangelizing at all?

[lilwriter85]

Why do these people constantly want to bring this country up in a Christian fashion and argue how we're steering away from a Christian foundation?! First off, this nation was NOT built on Christian faith. Secondly, no thank you, I do not want this nation to use the Bible as a blueprint.

Secondly, marriages fail all the time but not because we're at fault. I know some people who divorced because of being in an abusive relationship but I'm sure God definitely frowned upon the divorce since the couples did not give their marriage another shot, right? I mean those who divorced because of that reason have sinned :roll:

I get irritated when people say stuff like that. Kirk and his fans will always say stuff like for different reasons. I have visited the IMDB boards connected to Kirk's IMDB page and several of his defenders use that argument in thread whey they argue with atheists.