Pearls On When A Baby Is Too Young To Spank

[debrand]

The Pearls use a type of weird double speak.

A teenager who commits a violent act may need punishing, but a small child, not yet having developed a moral perspective, cannot do anything that deserves punishment.

and

If, based on your terminology, you mean “spanking to inflict punishment,†all young children are too young. Until a child is old enough to know right from wrong, good from evil, heaven from hell, obeying the law from breaking the law, he is too young to punish.

This sounds wonderful because it makes it sound as if the Pearls do not use corporal punishment on infants. Wow. One issue where I agree with them.

Not so fast....They just play with the words, spank and corporal punishment

In short, the small child under three years old is not fully capable of profiting from either punishment or reproof. Are we parents then left without recourse? Of course not! God has provided us with the instrument of training, with very occasional use of corporal chastisement, provided it is not related to punishment.

:think: What could this mean? How is spanking not related to punishment. Unless you are using the rod of correction as a marital aid, spanking involves punishment. Of course, Michael Pearl is such a sadist that he probably spanks his kids for laughs.

six-month-old throws his food bowl on the floor because he doesn’t like what is in it. This is the early stage of self-will and defiance. If the little guy gets away with it and if his parents don’t constrain him to do otherwise, then they are normalizing such behavior. Furthermore, they are allowing the seeds of defiance to grow in the child’s soul. Rebuke here would not be effective, nor would punishment. The child would not make any connection between his action and any suffering that you inflicted. If he were spanked hard enough to create significant pain, he would become so distracted with the pain and so fearful and emotionally disturbed that he could not be trained to any end. Remember, the child is simply expressing his will by dumping the food in the floor. I have had food set before me that I felt like dumping on the floor, but it would have been socially embarrassing to take that action. The child has no social consciousness, so he does whatever he feels like. Dumping it is not a great offense for a six-month-old, but he will not always be six months old, and it won’t be cute for long. It will make you downright mad when he is three years old and flings a whole plate of food into your lap.

So we watch him, knowing his propensity to selfish compulsion. When he seizes his bowl with intentions of dumping it, swat the offending hand with a little instrument (light wooden spoon, rubber spatula, flexible tubing less than a quarter inch in diameter, or any instrument that will cause an unpleasant sting without leaving any marks). As you swat the offending hand, say “No†in a normal commanding voice. The tone is more important than the word―not angry―but decisive. Children understand the temperament in your tone before they are born, and will recognize it. This swat is not punishment. Probably, it will not even cause the little guy to cry. He will be shocked and stop any action in which he is engaged. Explain to him that he is not to throw his food onto the floor. If he again makes an attempt, swat his hand again and say, no. The third time is the charm. He now knows that “No†uttered in a commanding tone, is something serious. He will not try that stunt again—at least not for this meal.

So, they advocate hitting six month old infants. Why not only give the six month old a small amount of food at the time? You can feed them while they make attempts to feed themselves with the less messy food.

nogreaterjoy.org/articles/too-young-to-spank/?topic_slug=babies

The child will actually profit emotionally from this exercise, for he is constrained to act in ways that will make him more loved and cause him to find wide approval from everyone he is around. A child with unacceptable habits becomes a rejected child, then a dejected child, and eventually a self-loathing kid who feels that he can never please anyone and that no one likes him. I am sorry the psychologists and secular child advocates don’t get it, but then if all parents practiced child training as I have suggested, there wouldn’t be any need for abnormal psychologists or child protection agencies. A lot of people would move on to more practical kinds of work, and there wouldn’t be any more crime or war.

Beat your baby, save the world!

[lizziesmom]

Be sure to use something that doesn't leave a mark.

[tanksmom]

When you have to check with the "experts" about whether or not you implement will leave a mark you are a child abuser. Full stop, no exceptions, abuser.

When you are more concerned about whether it will get you in trouble than if it is an effective form of discipline, you are a child abuser. Full stop no exceptions, abuser.

When you are willing to take a shortcut instead of the time to teach a child right from wrong, you are a child abuser. Full stop, no exceptions, abuser.

[August]

Of course the six month old needs beating. If they were truly civilised they'd say " thank you, mother, but I'm full now. May I go and roll around the floor ?" Seeing as ho they don't, they need to be taught how to, by hitting them.

[debrand]

In the book, To Train Up A Child, the Pearls report that their oldest daughter could crawl at a very young age.They claimed that just putting the switch on the bottom stairs prevented her from climbing the steps. However, the amount of beating that must have happened to terrify such a young infant of a switch must have been enormous.

[lizziesmom]

When you read this 'guide to parenting' is it really hard to understand why we have an entire generation of smiling adults with the inability for independent thought still living at home with mama and daddy, spouting the party line, and worst of all, VOTING?

[martian]

If you can hit a baby, there's something wrong with you to begin with.

[Mela99]

So what's the difference between spanking and cracking them on the hand with a spatula? Like, really?

[France Nolan]

Of course they advise parents to use something that doesn't leave a mark. No mark, no CPS call from the pediatrician/nurse/neighbor/family.

I thought six month olds dump out bowls because they are learning cause and effect, practicing motor skills, and getting sensory input. Silly child development.

[August]

So what's the difference between spanking and cracking them on the hand with a spatula? Like, really?

Semantics. For a non-verbal individual.

On the radio today I heard Buzz Aldrin talk about popping another guy on the jaw. Totally not hitting, he just popped him. Maybe we need to teach the child abusers the meaning of the word 'synonym', and a few examples.

[thoughtful]

He recommends lots and lots and lots of thumping, whipping, smacking, and other pain, with no lower age limit stated - as Debrand posted, the youngest age about which he has a specific story is four months, but this quote could be about any age young enough to use a crib (bolding mine):

A SWITCH AT NAP TIME SAVES MINE

When your baby is tired and sleepy enough to become irritable, don't reinforce irritability by allowing the cause and effect to continue. Put the little one to sleep. But what of the grouch who would rather complain than sleep? Get tough. Be firm with him. Never put him down and then allow him to get up. If, after putting him down, you remember he just woke up, do not reward his complaining by allowing him to get up. For the sake of consistency in training, you must follow through. He may not be able to sleep, but he can be trained to lie there quietly. He will very quickly come to know that any time he is laid down there is no alternative but to stay put. To get up is to be on the firing line and get switched back down. It will become as easy as putting a rag doll to bed. Those who are MOSTLY consistent must use the switch too often. Those who are ALWAYS consistent come to almost never need the switch.

The infant is not reasoning and reflecting on the best way to get his will. The first time he finds dissatisfaction in being laid down, the whimpering comes naturally

The "it's not punishment" crap is all double-speak, and part of that double-speak is Mike making a BS distinction between "training" and "punishing," which is entirely in his own mind.

I know I talk about this a lot, but it is key to understanding what Mike thinks he's doing. All of the pain he expects parents to apply to babies and toddlers, he claims, is "training" and "conditioning." He claims "punishment" is only for older kids who know they are wrong and going to Hell (just to ease their minds, of course :roll: )

Behavioral science (which he purports to understand and use), however, defines anything that reduces a behavior as punishment. I guess he skipped class that day. :angry-banghead:

Punishment is not a dirty word -- some non-Pearlesque punishments, especially if mixed with reward when desired behavior is shown, are painless; for example, the teacher who blithely ignores the kid who is calling out, but calls on her instantly when she remembers to raise her hand.

And, to be called a punishment, it has to succeed. If somebody doesn't like what you are doing, and slaps you every time you do it, it's still not punishment for that behavior unless it reduces the behavior.

I don't know how much is that he's just stupid about it, and how much is a smokescreen to make it sound less hurtful, but he's full of shit -- if "training" or "conditioning" involves an aversive, it is an attempt at punishment for that behavior. I think it's pretty clear that the advice given in all of Mikes "training" for babies and toddlers is based on punishment by pain.

Of course, if you think, as I do, that using purposeful application of pain to try to change a child's behavior, regardless of what you call it, is unacceptable, Mike's crap is all the same, and all cruel bullshit.

[August]

Thoughtful, a baby pulling up would be six-ish months old. The baby grabbing for glasses could be 3 months old. But starving a newborn is as painful and sick as hitting them, so I'm going to keep Michael Pearl firmly in the category of sick fucks for whom I'd like to open an old folk's home.

When you read this 'guide to parenting' is it really hard to understand why we have an entire generation of smiling adults with the inability for independent thought still living at home with mama and daddy, spouting the party line, and worst of all, VOTING?

That spiel by one ofthe Pearl kids is so creepy. She goes on and on about how they smile and laugh all the time, but she doesn't talk about emotions. You don't boast of smiling and laughing, you boast of love, and happiness and contentment and the things which made you smile or laugh. Don't you? I've never read someone talk about how they walk around all day laughing instead of talking about how happy they were. But those poor girls were taught to smile or laugh all the time, no matter what.

Please excuse my grammar, this topic makes me just a touch violently angry.

[Carla Bruni]

So I'm no expert on child development and have no children of my own, but that part about teaching a child to just lie there quietly reminded me of my father, who, as a small child, was trained (I'm not sure how, but I have my guesses) to just lie there quietly, too. His father, incidentally, later left his own half-paralyzed mother (my father's grandmother) in an empty apartment in a condemned building in the middle of winter while the family was moving; he cut a hole in the mattress (I wish I were kidding) and placed a bucket underneath. You know, so they wouldn't have to deal with his own mother in the middle of the move. Luckily, my mom, who was already married to my dad at the time, happened to stop by their old place and raised HELL. To me, this story forever became an illustration of the kind of people who also "train" their infants to just lie there quietly.

Curiously, my father is still practically incapable of forming warm, loving relationships with people; was so intolerable during my parents' divorce that multiple lawyers of his dumped him as a client; maintains a totally distant relationship with his eldest son, who already has kids of his own (you'd think being a grandfather would be fun or something, right?); kicked said son out and sent him to live with his mother at 17 because he wasn't doing well enough in calculus; openly says things like "I really don't care" when I try to tell him something about my life; has almost no friends; and tries to ration food, despite being more than comfortable enough financially. I used to blame him for being the way he is, but now I've come around to really blaming his parents, who were just horrible, horrible people. This is what happens when you raise children this way. Ugh. :angry-banghead:

[thoughtful]

Thoughtful, a baby pulling up would be six-ish months old.

Oh, I know -- but notice he also says that noise and whimpering should be punished. I wouldn't put it past him to filck or thump or even switch a very young baby for not being silent.

He's just, as you say, a sick fuck.

[salex]

May I ask who would think that having a baby that was as easy to put down as a rag doll was a good thing on any level??? Beating a 3-6 month old child into submission is one of the most horrible things anyone could do. It makes me think that multi part fundi childhood story of daily abuse many of us read a few weeks ago was dead on accurate.

I"m not sure why anyone has ever bought a copy of these people's books... they and their followers are disgusting.

[Jinger Jar]

They should rename "How to Train Up a Child" to "How to Train Up a Psychopath".

[chaotic life]

We are talking about a man who sadistic terrorized his children to fear not only the hot wood stove but his yell of HOT regarding that stove. We're also talking about a man who when one of his children did not accidentally FALL into the water so he could "teach" them about staying away from water by letting them nearly drown first, he pushed said child into the water to watch them nearly drown and teach them to not wander into the water that THEY DIDN'T WANDER INTO IN THE FIRST PLACE.

He's sadistic. He truly is. He used his methods on Russian orphans he used to host in the summer. He encouraged the Schatz couple to keep beating Lydia throughout her training session that caused her death. No DA has been willing to prosecute him because he's out of their district and he's got powerful supporters, but he's a sadistic murder. The blood of the children who have died by his "method" is just a surely on his hands as their murderers....Sean, Lydia and Hanna

[SpeakNow]

We are talking about a man who sadistic terrorized his children to fear not only the hot wood stove but his yell of HOT regarding that stove. We're also talking about a man who when one of his children did not accidentally FALL into the water so he could "teach" them about staying away from water by letting them nearly drown first, he pushed said child into the water to watch them nearly drown and teach them to not wander into the water that THEY DIDN'T WANDER INTO IN THE FIRST PLACE.

He's sadistic. He truly is. He used his methods on Russian orphans he used to host in the summer. He encouraged the Schatz couple to keep beating Lydia throughout her training session that caused her death. No DA has been willing to prosecute him because he's out of their district and he's got powerful supporters, but he's a sadistic murder. The blood of the children who have died by his "method" is just a surely on his hands as their murderers....Sean, Lydia and Hanna

The thing that kills me about him is that, sure touching a hot stove or falling in the water will teach the child to stay away...but so does proper supervision. Rather than watching his children play and keeping them away from hazards as needed, he prefers to watch his children and lead them to hazards to teach them a lesson. That makes absolutely no sense.

[No Cure for Stupid]

Aren't there any laws to stop these wackos? I mean, isn't promotion of child abuse a crime? At least a civil suit for the children who have died because they follow the Pearls.

[miffy]

Its sick that they could even think that smacking a baby or toddler is okay.

The only time I ever got smacked was when I had done something awful (like pushing my baby sister off a chair so she cut her lip) or when I had done something very naughty & then failed to listen to my parents attempts to discipline me verbally. I was a young primary school student (6-8 yrs). Its horrible & pointless to smack a child that is not aware that they did something wrong. It should only be the final action with a child who is old enough to understand what they did, but chooses to ignore their parents/guardian.

[hoipolloi]

Having just spent a couple of weeks with my wonderful 7 month-old grandchild, I cannot imagine any reason whatsoever to hit a baby of that age, no matter what.

The Pearls are sick, and the evil that they peddle is almost enough to make me wish for that biblical millstone to materialize, attach itself to their necks, and drag them forever into the depths of the sea.

[Effie]

Its horrible & pointless to smack a child that is not aware that they did something wrong. It should only be the final action with a child who is old enough to understand what they did, but chooses to ignore their parents/guardian.

NO. It's always horrible & pointless to smack a child. No excuses.

[formergothardite]

So when my daughter got to the age when she wanted to just throw her food on the ground, I would just give her tiny amounts of food and when she started throwing it remove the food and take her out of the high chair. She soon learned that throwing food means that the food disappears. Obviously if she was still hungry I would put her back in the highchair and offer more food. It took a couple of days of doing this and she mostly stopped throwing food. And I didn't have to worry about not leaving any marks.

[nelliebelle1197]

Know what I find really troubling? Michael Pearl's methods seem to have emerged fully formed. He did same stuff to the oldest he did to the youngest. Steve Maxwell's pathology has grown, changed and taken a couple decades to twist and pervert itself. Michael Pearl was ready with his perversions before the first baby was born!

[Florenz]

I wonder what the long term harm is. What kind of issues will those kids have one day?