Love Affair with Dr. Price and alternative meds

[dairyfreelife]

I've noticed several fundies endorsing Dr. Weston A. Price, a former dentist, who's name has been turned into a fad foundation since his death.

westonaprice.org is the foundation's website.

The following websites endorse the foundation and it often appears to be fundamentalists who are strong advocates.

thehealthyhomeeconomist.com is owned by a woman named Sarah, who works on the board of Price foundation.

thenourishinggourmet.com is owned by a woman named Kimi Harris and she has an obsession with Dr. Price and quotes the above site often.

To give an example of her obsession...

thenourishinggourmet.com/2013/01/are-you-really-eating-a-nutrient-dense-diet-and-would-dr-price-approve.html

http://www.littlenaturalcottage.com/

jillshomeremedies.blogspot.com/

kellythekitchenkop.com/

Lori Alexander is also an endorser of the methods. lorialexander.blogspot.com (for those who may be new and not sure who she is)

Endorsers of Price and the Price foundation also appear to be anti-vaccine, detox happy, believe in cleansing, and alternative medicines for all needs while also believing food can fix anything and following a Paleolithic diet. However, they also advocate drinking raw milk, which was certainly not a staple of our Paleo ancestors' diets. Certain parts of the population still have high rates of lactase non-persistence beyond toddler and childhood because they have not developed the mutation to have lactase persistence. I believe the statistic was over 60% of the world has a lactose intolerance (not including infants). Don't quote me to that statistic, i'm going off of memory from my report last year.

On to the critics and I'm not breaking the links because I doubt they care.

http://www.diseaseproof.com/

(don't agree with this doctor's methods as he's a vegetarian so would be a bit biased, but he does well at debunking the Price foundation)

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRel ... cdent.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/2 ... 98529.html

There are lots more critics to the foundation out there, but I think this is a start.

[TrueRebel1]

Just my 2 cents. I am most certainly NOT a fundie, but I appreciate and endorse many of the Weston Price beliefs. I know some people here at FJ will think I'm a loony for this, but I'd just like to stick up for the crowd who likes the findings of W.P. but is not associated with fundies. :-)

[Wolfie]

I've brought this up here before- they also tend to follow the GAPS diet along with the WAPF things. BUT where I live I see a lot of hippie types following both diets too. It's an area where hippies and fundies overlap.

[meda]

I think a lot of it is bunk, and you also find many devotees in the local foods movement. As someone who makes an effort to source our food locally, some of the blogs have helped me cook more intentionally using healthier ingredients available in my area. Also, I have found some good ideas for how to use my more unusual CSA share veggies.

Weston Price is actually how I feel down the rabbit hole of fundie watching. I was searching for a good whole wheat bread recipe, found some SAHD/submissive wife blogs, and the rest is history.

[Katiebug]

WAPF followers are obsessed with fermenting things. They like to dump whey into any kind of chopped vegetable and let it ferment for a couple of days before eating it, which sounds pretty repulsive to me. I remember reading threads on Mothering.com about WAPF and finding it a strange mix of hippies steeped in the natural living woo, and Christian fundie submissive wife types (actually, that pretty accurately describes all of MDC, but I digress).

I do like a properly-done paleo-type diet. Lots of veggies and fruits, eggs and good protein, what's to not like? When I eat paleo I choose to add occasional dairy (mainly in the form of good cheese) because, well, I like cheese. Really, I'm the sort of person who can way overdo the starchy or sugary carbs, and I find it easier to not binge if they're not in my diet much.

[formergothardite]

Wasn't Emily a big fan of his? That is why she had Theresa?

[Sola]

Wasn't Emily a big fan of his? That is why she had Theresa?

Emily espoused Nourishing Traditions, is that part of it?

I always found it ironic that Emily would spout about how healthy food was important. All the while starving her husband and feeding her kids Dollar Store tube meat.

Ah I miss Emily. Good times, good times.

[Dev83]

This stuff scares me. Not just because of what it tells you to eat - if you feel good eating it and you are happy, go on with your bad self. My concern is that it usually goes along with a general disgust of government, doctors and expert opinion. I see a scary trend of people not trusting research and science - experts in general. They do their own research which usually involves articles from the Internet then declare themselves experts. Fundies seem especially likely to fall into this category.

[laura oz]

Wasn't Emily a big fan of his? That is why she had Theresa?

Yep she was into it...good times. I miss that crazy bitch.

[Mice]

Lori Alexander is also an endorser of the methods. lorialexander.blogspot.com (for those who may be new and not sure who she is)

If Lori Alexander espouses it, I'm gonna stay far, far away from it. Especially anything having to do with health, medicine, relationships, parenting, religion, politics, education and well, you get the idea.

The quackwatch article was insightful. Thanks for posting.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I do like a properly-done paleo-type diet. Lots of veggies and fruits, eggs and good protein, what's to not like?

It starts getting out there when people go purely raw paleo. Raw meat. Mmmm.

But okay, if fresh, yeah, I can admit I've had some sliced meat that was maybe waved in front of a candle flame and that's about it, so I can't talk. But where I really have to get off the train?

High meat.

Not "high percentage of meat content," no, it's a term for... fermented meat. You take some meat, cut it up, put in a jar, and leave it out in the sun (or maybe make it slower in the fridge), airing it out every few days. Better yet, chicken. Until it's mostly liquid.

I first heard of this on some thread where people were talking about the worst ever episodes of "Wife Swap," some show where the wives of two families switch places. Being a "reality show" of course the producers look for conflict, and they sent some woman from San Francisco to live with a fundie homeschooling family that was strictly raw paleo AND very much into "high meat." The guest wife just could not bring herself to eat the stuff, apparently the whole house smelled about how you'd expect, and it led to conflict. She ends up storming out, and the guy runs after her saying there's still high meat there, if she wants to try it!!!! just.... :shock:

Anyway to bring it back to Weston Price, a lot of the "high meat" people are into him, and this family too was, they were doing the "brush your teeth with butter and clay" thing in addition. Lots of fundies up in Alaska into that too, thinking that somehow this will fix orthodontic problem, I will just say I have my doubts.

Where the "fundie" aspect unites with "high meat" is, there is this odd worshipping of traditional people who eat fermented meat products around the world, as if it's this magic diet that will solve anything with no downsides, etc. Of course in reality lots of people on that traditional diet DID die of botulism and botulism is a regular problem today, if the stuff isn't done very very carefully (it needs to be aired, and it's just too easy to get some of the wrong bacteria going in it if you don't do it right, even if you're born and raised with it). The "high meat" pages usually blame it on using plastic, they're not traditional enough and that's why they get botulism. It's that belief system that's wooey, not so much the eating of rotten fish heads by itself. Still, I am NOT gonna eat that...!

I have noticed a fetish for raw milk among a lot of Christian fundies who would fall into the "crunchy con" group. There's lots of stuff out there about how the evil evil government is persecuting them by cracking down on non-regulated raw milk dairies. Again there's the "but our ancestors all drank raw milk" without considering just how many of them DID in fact get sick and die from it, as a general percentage. If people need raw milk for certain raw milk cheeses that's one thing, but regular milk for your kid to have with cereal, why not pasteurize? Some go so far as to say that pasteurized milk is actually harmful, without any science behind it. That's where it gets weird, the "I don't trust modern science" thing.

[Ellimenopy]

Just my 2 cents. I am most certainly NOT a fundie, but I appreciate and endorse many of the Weston Price beliefs. I know some people here at FJ will think I'm a loony for this, but I'd just like to stick up for the crowd who likes the findings of W.P. but is not associated with fundies. :-)

Nope. I'm on board with this, too. Weston Price's research (some of it) is a bit loony, but the Weston Price Foundation mostly champions local food and traditional, nourishing food.

[Wolfie]

Cheeseslave is a proponent of the WAPF, I've occasionally posted her anti vaccine links here- as that's another thing that goes along with the diet.

mygutsy.com had an article about "high meat" not too long ago.

Yeah, reading blogs of food fundies is another pasttime of mine.

[dairyfreelife]

Emily espoused Nourishing Traditions, is that part of it?

I always found it ironic that Emily would spout about how healthy food was important. All the while starving her husband and feeding her kids Dollar Store tube meat.

Ah I miss Emily. Good times, good times.

Yes, it is the same. The founder of the Price foundation also owns Nourishing Traditions. Sally Fallon is the woman who started it all. Dr. Price was already deceased before the foundation's existence.

Here are some Price Foundation quotes:

But any mother who cares enough to make a whole foods baby formula will do so with far more care than the most reputable formula maker.

I live in a small middle class neighborhood with twenty-three houses. I recently counted thirty children who live in this community who are on medication for ADHD. One week ago my oldest son, who is gifted but dyslexic, had twelve neighborhood friends over for dinner. As I looked around the table, all of these children but one had dilated pupils. After two-and-one-half months of taking vitamin A and D in cod liver oil, my son announced, "I can read now! The letters don’t jump around on the page anymore!" He is able to focus and his handwriting has improved dramatically

Almost all traditional societies incorporate raw, enzyme-rich foods into their cuisines—not only vegetable foods but also raw animal proteins and fats in the form of raw dairy foods, raw fish and raw muscle and organ meats. These diets also traditionally include a certain amount of cultured or fermented foods, which have an enzyme content that is actually enhanced by the fermenting and culturing proces

When a baby becomes infected with a communicable disease, his immune system responds through a sophisticated web of interlocking reactions that can produce immunity for life to naturally acquired childhood diseases. These miraculous defenses exist, in part, to keep invading microbes and viruses from taking hold in the deeper systems and organs of the body.

But vaccines, which contain both live and dead viruses, killed bacteria, genetically engineered DNA and chemical preservatives, are injected directly into the bloodstream, bypassing the natural immune response. This deprives the body of the ability to naturally develop life-long immunity in all its multifaceted complexity to normal childhood diseases like measles, mumps and chicken pox. Mass vaccination is a manmade attempt to remove the natural infection response from human development and replace it with a series of artificially imposed infections and immune responses determined by the doctor’s vaccination schedule.

The medical profession is extremely reluctant to acknowledge adverse reactions to vaccination, even when the reaction is instantaneous or occurs within a few hours, and even with adults who can clearly verbalize their negative reactions, which infants are unable to do. And since no studies have ever tracked negative effects that occur over the long term, reactions that occur days, weeks or years later are almost never attributed to the vaccine.

It is a little-known fact that not a single study exists to prove that vaccines are safe over the long term.

While we have all been taught that vaccination ended the world’s many deadly epidemics, an honest and careful review of original historical medical sources, publications and statistics from the past two hundred years reveals that infectious diseases declined 90 percent before mass vaccination was ever introduced.

Experts attribute the cessation of epidemic diseases not to mass vaccination, but to a major sanitation reform movement that swept Europe during the 1800s. These reforms included moving human waste out of streets via plumbing systems; regularly cleaning streets and stables of horse manure and human waste; improving roads so that meats, vegetables and raw milk could be distributed in cities while still fresh; and upgrading water distribution systems to prevent bacterial contamination

I really loathe the average doctor, and am not keen on pharmaceuticals, so I began my search for answers online.

Sums up these types, but her answer was 30-60,000 IUs of cod liver oil cured her fibroids and heavy bleeding.

Apparently, according to the Price foundation, all I need to do is eat more broth soups and take a bunch of cod liver oil and I can cure my panic disorder, OCD, depression and endometriosis. My doctors are just all up in Big Pharmas ass and refuse to tell me about this and make me pay lots of money for medicines obviously. It's a conspiracy. :shifty: Oh and I have too much copper in my body and need more zinc and vitamin B6.

But I did like this statement:

In his book, Dr. Price described a fascinating custom: throughout the South Seas and Africa, it was considered shameful to have a child more than once every three years. This is a very wise practice because it allows the mother to recuperate her nutritional stores before the next pregnancy. While this practice was instinctual among traditional cultures, it is totally validated by modern science. We now know that the ideal spacing for prevention of birth defects is three years; and the ideal spacing for the emotional development of the child is also three years

So all those fundies having one baby after another...Dr. Price says you're doing it wrong.

Until i started looking at all theses fundie blogs, I never heard of Price. And when I hear the name, it seems like those people are worshipping the words of this man and the foundation. (Worship smilie isn't working, but it fits here).

[DarkAnts]

It starts getting out there when people go purely raw paleo. Raw meat. Mmmm.

But okay, if fresh, yeah, I can admit I've had some sliced meat that was maybe waved in front of a candle flame and that's about it, so I can't talk. But where I really have to get off the train?

High meat.

Not "high percentage of meat content," no, it's a term for... fermented meat. You take some meat, cut it up, put in a jar, and leave it out in the sun (or maybe make it slower in the fridge), airing it out every few days. Better yet, chicken. Until it's mostly liquid.

I first heard of this on some thread where people were talking about the worst ever episodes of "Wife Swap," some show where the wives of two families switch places. Being a "reality show" of course the producers look for conflict, and they sent some woman from San Francisco to live with a fundie homeschooling family that was strictly raw paleo AND very much into "high meat." The guest wife just could not bring herself to eat the stuff, apparently the whole house smelled about how you'd expect, and it led to conflict. She ends up storming out, and the guy runs after her saying there's still high meat there, if she wants to try it!!!! just.... :shock:

Anyway to bring it back to Weston Price, a lot of the "high meat" people are into him, and this family too was, they were doing the "brush your teeth with butter and clay" thing in addition. Lots of fundies up in Alaska into that too, thinking that somehow this will fix orthodontic problem, I will just say I have my doubts.

Where the "fundie" aspect unites with "high meat" is, there is this odd worshipping of traditional people who eat fermented meat products around the world, as if it's this magic diet that will solve anything with no downsides, etc. Of course in reality lots of people on that traditional diet DID die of botulism and botulism is a regular problem today, if the stuff isn't done very very carefully (it needs to be aired, and it's just too easy to get some of the wrong bacteria going in it if you don't do it right, even if you're born and raised with it). The "high meat" pages usually blame it on using plastic, they're not traditional enough and that's why they get botulism. It's that belief system that's wooey, not so much the eating of rotten fish heads by itself. Still, I am NOT gonna eat that...!

I have noticed a fetish for raw milk among a lot of Christian fundies who would fall into the "crunchy con" group. There's lots of stuff out there about how the evil evil government is persecuting them by cracking down on non-regulated raw milk dairies. Again there's the "but our ancestors all drank raw milk" without considering just how many of them DID in fact get sick and die from it, as a general percentage. If people need raw milk for certain raw milk cheeses that's one thing, but regular milk for your kid to have with cereal, why not pasteurize? Some go so far as to say that pasteurized milk is actually harmful, without any science behind it. That's where it gets weird, the "I don't trust modern science" thing.

They think raw milk has magical enzymes in it to cure everything. But, they cant tell you what an enzyme is let alone which ones are in raw milk vs pasteurized milk.

[desertvixen]

Emily was into the Nourishing Traditions thing, and claimed that was why they had to get the tube beef, because she needed the iron.

Don't forget the whole part where she made her own baking powder (I think it was baking powder, at least) so it would be non-GMO, and then she ate TUBE BEEF.

She did some hand-waving about "doing what they could" in their circumstances when it was brought up.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

A search on YouTube for "wife swap raw food family" brings up clips from that horrid high meat episode of Wife Swap. They are certainly their own kind of fundie...

[Wolfie]

mygutsy.com/is-raw-meat-healthy/

[Wolfie]

I also really wonder what these people are going to be like in 20 years.

[Ellimenopy]

I have noticed a fetish for raw milk among a lot of Christian fundies who would fall into the "crunchy con" group. There's lots of stuff out there about how the evil evil government is persecuting them by cracking down on non-regulated raw milk dairies. Again there's the "but our ancestors all drank raw milk" without considering just how many of them DID in fact get sick and die from it, as a general percentage. If people need raw milk for certain raw milk cheeses that's one thing, but regular milk for your kid to have with cereal, why not pasteurize? Some go so far as to say that pasteurized milk is actually harmful, without any science behind it. That's where it gets weird, the "I don't trust modern science" thing.

I just have to point out that this is where Weston Price and I part ways. There's little harm from adults making a decision to try raw milk, but there's no reason that you HAVE to drink it regularly or expose developing immune systems to it. Also, "high meat"? Eww. I never even heard of that.

And I refuse to associate with people who don't vaccinate their children. I know that the antivaxxers and the real food people tend to overlap, but I just can't deal with it. Just... no. If I find out you don't vax your kids we are insta-enemies.

[Wolfie]

I just have to point out that this is where Weston Price and I part ways. There's little harm from adults making a decision to try raw milk, but there's no reason that you HAVE to drink it regularly or expose developing immune systems to it. Also, "high meat"? Eww. I never even heard of that.

And I refuse to associate with people who don't vaccinate their children. I know that the antivaxxers and the real food people tend to overlap, but I just can't deal with it. Just... no. If I find out you don't vax your kids we are insta-enemies.

But my problem with it is that no vaccinations and raw dairy are two of the major aspects of their beliefs. If you look here westonaprice.org/childrens-health there are three different articles that are antivaccination. That doesn't mean that there aren't more mentions of it in articles that don't name it in the title.

I am all for less processed food and so on, and actually try to eat mostly "real" food, but the aspects of WAPF that scare me and are more mainstream than the high meat, are the high content of fats in the diet, the raw milk (all fine and dandy for an adult, but to feed it to a child, or even an infant?), and the distrust of normal health care, especially vaccinations.

[Ellimenopy]

I admit that I haven't read enough about the rest of the foundation. The raw milk is iffy; anti vaccination is unconscionable. I have no problem with high fat in the diet, though, and neither do any of the doctors in my family. Unless you're eating too many calories, fat is not harmful.

But if anti vaccination is a core principle and not just something that a lot of them adhere to, then I fully withdraw any defense of them.

[Jessica]

but regular milk for your kid to have with cereal, why not pasteurize?

Not just for kids to have with cereal, but made into baby formula for brand new babies! Yes, that's right folks, give your newborn raw milk blended up with a whole bunch of other stuff that newborns should not be consuming. cheeseslave.com/how-to-make-homemade-baby-formula/

[EyeQueue]

WAPF followers are obsessed with fermenting things. They like to dump whey into any kind of chopped vegetable and let it ferment for a couple of days before eating it, which sounds pretty repulsive to me. I remember reading threads on Mothering.com about WAPF and finding it a strange mix of hippies steeped in the natural living woo, and Christian fundie submissive wife types (actually, that pretty accurately describes all of MDC, but I digress).

The fermented stuff can actually be quite delicious (though I'm skeptical of the health claims). I don't know about WAPF, but I've taken some fermenting workshops at my local food co-op, and have been pretty happy with the results. I've made batches of sauerkraut and other veggie ferments (I would never do the meat...that just sounds dangerous and disgusting to boot), and they basically just taste like something pickled...with perhaps a bit of effervescence.

You do need to keep things clean, but if you're doing it right there's not really anything repulsive about it (that is, if you like the pickle-y flavor).

Now Emily's methods, on the other hand, rather gave me, the screaming meemies. :o

[Cran]

Oh yeah... Weston Price... it was Candy who introduced me to him (indirectly over her blog, obviously). She couldn't afford dental care, tried to do her own and then latched on Price, who claims to be able to cure tooth decay trough the diet.

There are some things I like about the food concept, like not condemning red meat and milk products, eating locally etc., but claiming food is a miracle cure for practically every ailment is simply, well, cheesy.

And from me, that's saying something, because I have ssen in myself that tooth decay in the early stages can be brought to an halt and not need a filling, but I did it through good dental care (lots of Tooth Mousse!) and no miracle diet. The little black spots stopped progressing and are just there, doing nothing. A pain in the ass to explain to a new dentist that I 2NO THANK YOU I DO NOT WANT A FILLING IN THAT!":