The Decline of Evangelical America (link)

[Seven Severn]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/opini ... l?hp&_r=1&

An evangelical laments the loss of power and influence.

[doggie]

Cry me a river of devil tears. Sounds good to me.

[Austin]

That's worth celebrating to me.

[Guest Anonymous]

Hurrah! Well done America. :D

[ceg045]

Can you hear? I'm playing the world's tiniest violin.

[BravaAmica]

Huzzah!!! I hope the denomination keeps getting smaller and smaller and smaller....

[Black Aliss]

I tried to post a photo of my tiny violin, all tuned up and ready to play "My Heart Bleeds For You" but I got this message:

"Sorry, the board attachment quota has been reached." That probably means I can't attach my sad trombone sound either.

:violin: :violin: :violin: :violin:

[Rosie]

*claps wildly*

[linnea27]

Yeah, I am failing to see the problem.

Edited for reading comprehension. I haz it, despite what my original post implied.

[Dysfundamental]

Yes, please!

[hoipolloi]

This is great news!

[debrand]

Last month, Americans voted in favor of same-sex marriage in four states, while Florida voters rejected an amendment to restrict abortion.

Hooray.

Evangelicals hurt their own faith more than any enemy could ever do. American evangelical version of Christianity is more cultural than biblical, no matter what evangelicals claim. Jesus' biblical commands to support the poor and help the needy are ignored. When the right scream about nonexistent persecution, demand that civil rights be denied same sex couples and that women not have control over their own bodies, of course they are going to loose members. I would imagine that a lot of young people are disgusted with evangelicals

Studies from established evangelical polling organizations — LifeWay Research, an affiliate of the Southern Baptist Convention, and the Barna Group — have found that a majority of young people raised as evangelicals are quitting church, and often the faith, entirely.

Again, good.

We live in an information age. When I was young it was easy for evangelical Christians to deny the crazy among them. Now it isn't so easy. Through the internet, we can read case after case of evangelicals saying crazy things. Worse are the comments that follow any article criticizing an evangelical leader. Christian evangelicals are quick to defend their leaders or sometimes, they just assure readers that all Christians aren't crazy. However what many people want them to do is speak out against self proclaimed leaders that say stupid things. Many evangelicals seem hesitant to say anything against people like Huckabee.

[MissA]

I read this whole thing not two minutes ago and all I can remember now is "Boo hoo boo hoo poor me". What a whiner.

Seriously, though, the fact that 82% of your ministers think that your influence is declining is because y'all have a vibrant and thriving persecution complex. Your numbers may be declining but your influence is just as strong as ever, at least in the US.

And the fact that, just lately, some of the electorate has rejected your positions is not because of your stance. We reject them when Catholics, Muslims, and Jews hold them, too. It's because your positions are asinine.

[shrewlu]

:lol: I see no problem with this. I hope, within my lifetime, that their influence will be even less than it is now, perhaps even non-existent.

[Kitty]

Sooo... What exactly is the problem?

Fewer anti-gay bigots in our government denying people equal rights? That's a good thing.

Fewer misogynist assholes telling women that they weren't really raped, or that they should get an ultrasound to show them that they are taking a non-existent life? That's excellent.

Fewer sneaky dickheads lying and deceiving people and tricking them into accepting tracts or going to worship services? Awesome.

Fewer "concerned parents" denying not only their own children, but hundreds of other children, the right to read books evangelicals don't like, the right to be educated about the human body and sexuality, and the right to learn science rather than religion or "the controversy"? Brilliant.

Fewer ignorant people encouraging wifely submission, convincing everyone that sex outside of marriage is evil, encouraging women to give up careers and college for marriage and kids, denying abuse of women and children in the church? Oh yes, sign me up.

Fewer rich snobs promising that prayer and faith will lead to material wealth, when hundreds of thousands of people in the US go hungry or without healthcare? Fuck yeah.

Fewer rich snobs promising food, clothing, shelter and healthcare only for people who will buy into the evangelical hype, and not for people who do not? Awesome.

Fewer ignorant people believing that mental illness is a problem with not having the right faith, meaning that the mentally ill will be able to get quality care without facing stigma and that people who are of no faith but mentally unhealthy will not be discriminated against or assumed to be mentally ill? Oh. Hell. Yes.

I really do not see a problem with any of this. At all.

[BravaAmica]

We live in an information age. When I was young it was easy for evangelical Christians to deny the crazy among them. Now it isn't so easy. Through the internet, we can read case after case of evangelicals saying crazy things. Worse are the comments that follow any article criticizing an evangelical leader. Christian evangelicals are quick to defend their leaders or sometimes, they just assure readers that all Christians aren't crazy. However what many people want them to do is speak out against self proclaimed leaders that say stupid things. Many evangelicals seem hesitant to say anything against people like Huckabee.

that whole "But we're not all like that" is such bullshit. It really is. It's something said to placate their "liberal" friends. It's a statement equivalent to "It's not you, it's me."

I just want to shake people when I hear "But not all xtians are like that." Um, if you're not speaking up, if you're voting for people that want to take rights away from others, if you're simply keeping sweet, then yes, YOU ARE LIKE THAT. :x

[ElphabaGalinda]

I hope that evangelical Christianity declines until it no longer exists...and it's just taught as history, as something ignorant people used to do in the olden days. The number of young people who will tolerate anti gay, anti choice, anti woman views are declining, and just like the people who defended slavery died out (mostly) people who hold those views will die out too.

Also, if you don't call out the crazies, or you vote for the crazies, IMO you end up just as bad as they are.

[Marian the Librarian]

Sooo... What exactly is the problem?

Fewer anti-gay bigots in our government denying people equal rights? That's a good thing.

Fewer misogynist assholes telling women that they weren't really raped, or that they should get an ultrasound to show them that they are taking a non-existent life? That's excellent.

Fewer sneaky dickheads lying and deceiving people and tricking them into accepting tracts or going to worship services? Awesome.

Fewer "concerned parents" denying not only their own children, but hundreds of other children, the right to read books evangelicals don't like, the right to be educated about the human body and sexuality, and the right to learn science rather than religion or "the controversy"? Brilliant.

Fewer ignorant people encouraging wifely submission, convincing everyone that sex outside of marriage is evil, encouraging women to give up careers and college for marriage and kids, denying abuse of women and children in the church? Oh yes, sign me up.

Fewer rich snobs promising that prayer and faith will lead to material wealth, when hundreds of thousands of people in the US go hungry or without healthcare? Fuck yeah.

Fewer rich snobs promising food, clothing, shelter and healthcare only for people who will buy into the evangelical hype, and not for people who do not? Awesome.

Fewer ignorant people believing that mental illness is a problem with not having the right faith, meaning that the mentally ill will be able to get quality care without facing stigma and that people who are of no faith but mentally unhealthy will not be discriminated against or assumed to be mentally ill? Oh. Hell. Yes.

I really do not see a problem with any of this. At all.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

I read this op-ed piece yesterday, and you have articulated my inner "oh, yeah?" response brilliantly. Please, please, consider submitting this as a letter to the NYT editor (the website isn't allowing comments on the op-ed itself). And please, don't change a word. Brava.

[Anxious Girl]

that whole "But we're not all like that" is such bullshit. It really is. It's something said to placate their "liberal" friends. It's a statement equivalent to "It's not you, it's me."

I just want to shake people when I hear "But not all xtians are like that." Um, if you're not speaking up, if you're voting for people that want to take rights away from others, if you're simply keeping sweet, then yes, YOU ARE LIKE THAT. :x

But of you defend a Jew or a Muslim, people like these will say, "Oh, but why don't you cut the Christians some slack?" I want to headesk. :angry-banghead: "IT'S BECAUSE CHRISTIANS ARE THE MOST RELIGIOUSLY INFLUENTIAL RELIGIOUS CULTURE IN AMERICA!"

My ma said that Muslim women shouldn't be allowed to wear hijabs because people can't identify them. I then asked her about her overseas friend who wore a hijab, she said it doesn't matter; you have to show your whole face to identify yourself. Then I asked her about nuns; and how that was any different.

She said they only wore them inside a Church. I told her that some decide to wear them in public. She then told me that nun habits don't cover their whole face. I want to bang my head again. :angry-banghead: How can she be so partial and exceptional? I'm 100 % positive that if a nun wore a whole head covering similiar to a hijab with her black dress robe; it wouldn't matter.

I was surprised when my ma told me this; 'cause I usually think of her as a liberal. Or even worse, when people who know my parents say and agree with my parents (mostly my dad's) intolerance, "The Muslims created that image for themselves when they bombed us."

When I ask people like them what about the countries that view us as intolerant of other religions except their own; they'll say "It's ok. We don't need to worry about them. We're the most powerful country in the world!" Do these people not understand the fucking concept international relations and world peace? :angry-banghead:

[mkitten]

Quick! Call the Wah-Bulance!!!

[Anxious Girl]

Quick! Call the Wah-Bulance!!!

You mean call God. According to most sects of Christianity; when people lose what they consider Christian morals; that means the Appocolypse is-a-brewin'! And because these Evangelicals are listening and obeying their cherry-picked verses of the Bible; they'll get to Heaven sooner than those they consider non-Christian! After all; who cares what Jesus said about being kind and non-judgemental while giving to the poor? Christanity is all about preaching about what not to do to get into hell; but what to do to get into Heaven faster than those heathens! It's also about selling to people in their most desperate times of need; and needing cash donations despite God being so powerful that He feels His ministers on Earth need cash to spread His Word. :naughty:

[Peas n carrots]

I enjoyed this article...maybe the second Dark Ages aren't right around the corner like I thought they were in 2004.

[Inky]

That's good news. It will be nice when there is less rhetoric, and more moderate discussion around religion.

[pomology]

This seems like a cause for a party, methinks.

I mean, seriously. What do you want me to do? Cry because your bigoted little manifestation of religion can't influence our culture anymore despite your huge megachurches?

[Witsec7]

This seems like a cause for a party, methinks.

I mean, seriously. What do you want me to do? Cry because your bigoted little manifestation of religion can't influence our culture anymore despite your huge megachurches?

Oh it will need a cake. :lol: