Can I echo this MYOB on childbearing article?

[2xx1xy1JD]

http://www.kveller.com/blog/parenting/m ... -business/

I totally agree with every word. Unless you are the woman's OB/gyn, questions about baby making, pregnancy and childbearing are not okay. Ever.

Of course, in the comments there has to be the one person who thinks that she has a "right" to ask insanely personal questions, since it's a conversation starter. Because of course that totally trumps the fact that these questions could be unleashing a world hurt.

11 years later, I still remember one of the worst none-of-your-business conversations:

Friend's mother at synagogue: Oh, your little girl is so cute! Time to make another one!

Me: [mumbling while in a state of shock] We're trying.....

Her: Try harder!

Me: [Completely speechless and running out of the building fast so that she wouldn't see me burst into tears, since I had been trying unsuccessfully to have a 2nd child and had just had my 3rd miscarriage that week]

[ILoveJellybeans]

I totally agree, its just rude to question peoples parenting/baby making choices, as long as their children are getting their needs met and in a safe environment.

It happens a lot, if you dont have kids, its "when are you having babies?", just one, you get people telling you that your kid needs a sibling to play with, if you have all of one gender, people are asking "are you going to try for a girl/boy now?"

Every fundie blog that has more than about five kids has at least one post about rude comments made by people who think they have too many kids, some of these things these people have apparently said, make you think "Surely nobody would be so rude as to ask things like that"

[salsa]

I believe the fundies *have* heard those rude comments just because there are really rude people out there. And some feel free to be ruder to those who don't look like they do - and fundies have a "look."

In my case, when I got pregnant with my 2nd one, I was astounded at how many people asked if we'd planned it or if it was an accident.

And as 2xx1y1JD indicated, you might be saying something that you think is mildly kidding and trigger something very sensitive in the other person. ... I've done it myself and I at least try to be sensitive!

[Lady_M]

This is a great article! So true...thanks for posting it.

2xx1xy1JD, all I can say is, I'm so sorry. What an awful situation.

And salsa - wow...that would be so irritating to be asked that.

That author is spot on. I've been married a number of years, and have reached that stage of life where I get asked fairly frequently why I don't have kids, if I want/don't want kids, am I going to have kids, etc. Well, the plan was to have kids/be pregnant around now, but in one of those unwelcome medical surprises, we found out that I have a hormonal condition where I don't ovulate regularly. So now it's on to the drugs to see if things will work.

On the good days when people ask me these questions, I'll change the subject or give a noncommittal answer. On the bad days, though, it's far harder to be nice about it. Someone asked me if I wanted kids shortly after I had found out that my Clomid cycle had failed to produce anything of note and I was really hard pressed not to respond "Well, I'm taking drugs that make me feel awful, seeing my doctor more than I've ever seen a physician in my life, I'm having blood tests and invasive ultrasounds on a regular basis, and now I get to start on a new, off-label drug to see if that works...so yes, I want a kid".

On that note, can totally believe that fundies or even just larger families get some very rude remarks or questions.

[GeoBQn]

I have PCOS, so I'm worried about being asked. My husband and I aren't ready to have kids for another couple years and nobody has asked unless we were in the immediate vicinity of a baby. I think I'll go with Dear Prudence's recommended response--"When it happens, you will be the first to know."

[2xx1xy1JD]

Oh yeah, it floored me how many people - including close friends and family and even clergy - felt it was appropriate to basically ask us if we were having unprotected sex. After the 1st miscarriage (which was public knowledge since it happened late), we got a lot of "are you trying again?", and even a pat on the stomach and "how's the project going?" from a friend. Let's just say that there was a lot of silent rage and constantly telling ourselves "they mean well and don't know just how nosy and hurtful they are being."

OTOH, I also got a "was it planned?" when baby #3 arrived 21 months after baby #2. [FTR, it was the gap between my oldest two kids that wasn't planned - we made a conscious decision to skip the BC after baby #2 because we always wanted 3 and expected that it could take a long time. The only thing that was unexpected is that I didn't have problems conceiving or miscarriage again.]

If someone feels like sharing, great. Otherwise, get your mind out of other folks' bedrooms.

[BravaAmica]

My sister is dealing with infertility. She's been married for four years and people are starting to pester her with questions about having kids. She's had six unsuccessful fertility treatments, three surgeries and is on mad drugs- shots, pills, patches. She's been private about it because she doesn't want the comments. But it's had a backlash.

People make assumptions that her and her husband don't want kids because of their lifestyle. They've lived all over the world, from Belgium to New Zealand to Canada to Japan working on films. (They're producers.) They make a lot of money. They just bought a dream home in LA. Their "friends" say things like, "Oh, I guess you and your husband are just going to keep traveling and making movies." Or, "Well, if I had your lifestyle, I wouldn't want kids, either. I love hearing about all the parties and awards show you two get to attend." Or, my favorite, "If I had your figure, I wouldn't mess it up with a pregnancy, either." Really?! My sister is thin with a huge rack and happens to be a producer in Hollywood, so that means she doesn't want to mess up her body with a pregnancy?! But the thing is, they do want a child, very much.

So, either way, you get the bullshit nosy comments from people.

[YPestis]

I thought that article was a bit dramatic for my taste. She was taught to never inquire if a woman have kids because it could be painful? Well, what about inquiring if someone is married? Or have siblings? Or have a job? Or a dog? They can all be painful. I feel there's a difference between innocent questioning and being intrusive.

I think it's fine (but maybe annoying to some) to be asked about future plans for kids. The key is not to push people about that unless they offer to share, and to not pass judgement on their decision. I don't mind if people ask about our future plans for children (we'd like to have a couple). I don't like it if they ask if we are "trying" or for me to get technical (ew). Lucky for us, no one has been that nosy.

[FloraDoraDolly]

Another rude comment to add to the list... When you're over forty and people ask you why you never had children.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I thought that article was a bit dramatic for my taste. She was taught to never inquire if a woman have kids because it could be painful? Well, what about inquiring if someone is married? Or have siblings? Or have a job? Or a dog? They can all be painful. I feel there's a difference between innocent questioning and being intrusive.

I think it's fine (but maybe annoying to some) to be asked about future plans for kids. The key is not to push people about that unless they offer to share, and to not pass judgement on their decision. I don't mind if people ask about our future plans for children (we'd like to have a couple). I don't like it if they ask if we are "trying" or for me to get technical (ew). Lucky for us, no one has been that nosy.

I understand that "do the two of you plan to have kids?" can sound like a harmless question.

I don't think that the people who asked me questions, or the people who I here asking other people questions, set out to be assholes. In fact, I know that many of them were actually very close to us and wished us nothing but good stuff. It's precisely because I know that these people would never want to hurt us that I spread around articles like this and caution people against certain questions - because I'm sure that they would feel horrible if they knew just how intensely painful these questions were.

Once upon a time, before we were trying for kids, I also may have thought that this was an overly dramatic article. In fact, everyone who knew me knew that I was exceedingly calm and logical and not the sort of person who reacted emotionally to anything. That abruptly changed with the first miscarriage. I actually found the changes in my personality somewhat terrifying, until I learned that they are fairly common. Most people around me knew the "old me", and had no idea that I was spending at least an hour each day crying. Every day. For months. They had no idea that the grief was still intense and raw months later. They had no idea that certain things were triggers, and that I dreaded the idea of losing control and breaking down in public.

There are many, many reasons why a couple may not have kids. Sure, some may simply be waiting to do so, or choosing to be child-free for lifestyle reasons. Others, however, may have reasons that extremely personal and/or sensitive, and there is no way of knowing if that's the case before you stick your foot in your mouth.

They may be struggling with infertility. Life may be a hell of uncertainty and tests and expenses and procedures.

They may be experiencing pregnancy loss.

They may be wrestling with the issue of whether or not to have kids, and it may be a major source of stress in the relationship.

They may have really wished that they could have kids, but there may be private medical or psychiatric issues that stand in the way.

They may want to have kids, but be struggling financially.

They may want to have kids, but know that it's not a good idea while they are struggling with substance abuse.

They may want to have kids, but not while their marriage is on the rocks.

They may want to have kids, but choose not to because of a higher-than-average risk of genetic disorders.

[dawbs]

I thought that article was a bit dramatic for my taste. She was taught to never inquire if a woman have kids because it could be painful? Well, what about inquiring if someone is married? Or have siblings? Or have a job? Or a dog? They can all be painful. I feel there's a difference between innocent questioning and being intrusive.

I think it's fine (but maybe annoying to some) to be asked about future plans for kids. The key is not to push people about that unless they offer to share, and to not pass judgement on their decision. I don't mind if people ask about our future plans for children (we'd like to have a couple). I don't like it if they ask if we are "trying" or for me to get technical (ew). Lucky for us, no one has been that nosy.

I do think "do you have kids?' is a *fairly* reasonable question--because that's basic truth information. But, IME, unless I said "just pets" or some other 'more than yes or no' answer, most people *NEVER* stopped there, it was always followed with "why not?" or "do you WANT kids?" or "you're not getting any younger!" or "are you trying" or any other innane stupid badgering, bludgeoning, infuriating question/comment.

(especially painful when the "kids/no kids" debate in the dawbs household was our major source of marital stress. Maybe even slightly more than when we were dealing w/ IF)

[DarkAnts]

I have had someone tell me that my clock is ticking away. I told her that the world has enough people in it. I did not get the whole population can fit in a city speech. But I did not stay around long enough for it either.

[bionicmlle]

I do think "do you have kids?' is a *fairly* reasonable question--because that's basic truth information. But, IME, unless I said "just pets" or some other 'more than yes or no' answer, most people *NEVER* stopped there, it was always followed with "why not?" or "do you WANT kids?" or "you're not getting any younger!" or "are you trying" or any other innane stupid badgering, bludgeoning, infuriating question/comment.

(especially painful when the "kids/no kids" debate in the dawbs household was our major source of marital stress. Maybe even slightly more than when we were dealing w/ IF)

dawbs: YES - the ONLY thing that shuts people up after asking "do you have kids?" is "I have two dogs" or "just the furry kind." If I have a feeling that there are going to be follow-up questions I usually offer up my own and say something like "I just have furbabies -- tell me about YOUR children!" That deflects almost.every.time.

[JeanneD]

I do think "do you have kids?' is a *fairly* reasonable question--because that's basic truth information. But, IME, unless I said "just pets" or some other 'more than yes or no' answer, most people *NEVER* stopped there, it was always followed with "why not?" or "do you WANT kids?" or "you're not getting any younger!" or "are you trying" or any other innane stupid badgering, bludgeoning, infuriating question/comment.

(especially painful when the "kids/no kids" debate in the dawbs household was our major source of marital stress. Maybe even slightly more than when we were dealing w/ IF)

We don't even have pets to deflect this question ! "Do you have kids?" "No." If they haven't discussed theirs yet, then it is an easy swing into , "No, can you tell me about yours?", but if ya miss the boat - awkward times. Infertility is just not a get-to-know ya conversation topic.

[RosyDaisy]

I know I good way to shut them up. Offer them your trying to conceive videos (aka sex tapes). That will shut them up in a hurry. :lol:

[cindyluvs24]

My stock answer when asked why we only had one child was "They're not Pringles ya know. You can stop at one." The only people that would continue to challenge me were my husband's nutty baal tshuva (born again Jewish) cousins and my mother's fundy neighbor who, when seeing my car in front of her house would scurry over to ask me all sorts of questions about my life and "counsel" me.

[mkitten]

Gah! My husband and I have two kids and get the "Are you going to have any more" all.the.time. It's really annoying. Every wedding I attend for really close friends or relatives I almost feel obligated to issue a warning: "Be aware, now that you're married, people will finally stop asking you if you're going to get married. Now they're going to move on to invasive questions about your sex life and whether or not you intend to procreate in the near future."

[Sobeknofret]

We had infertility issues and then a micropreemie due to pre-e. Since it's usually a recurrent thing we decided to stop at one rather than subject another kid to years of OT,PT, speech, and all kinds of other therapies, not to mention a NICU stay. People are usually generally pretty good about not asking why he doesn't have siblings, but man! When they get intrusive, they get *really* intrusive and nothing we can say puts them off easily.

[ilovetchotchkes]

I had someone tell me that it was my "Jewish duty" to make lots more "Jewish babies" because "so many perished in the holocaust". It really pissed me off. Simply because it is none of anyone's business why I'm probably stopping at two or three.

I got the whole "Try harder" and "relax" when we were trying for #1. It was really awful. A much more appropriate response to "we're trying" would be "In that case, I wish you the best of luck and can't wait to hopefully hear some good news soon!".

[Fundie Lite]

My husband and I have been married all of 3 1/2 months and I can count 7 instances of people either asking if I'm pregnant, asking when we're having a baby, or otherwise commenting about us having a child.

[Fundie Lite]

Haha, make that 8 instances! Another person asked me today if I'm having a baby. I kid you not. Sheesh!

[Lady_M]

They had no idea that certain things were triggers, and that I dreaded the idea of losing control and breaking down in public.

This. So much this.

I joke to my husband occasionally that it would totally serve some of these people right if I just started bawling when they ask these questions, but in real life if it actually happened, I'd be mortified/upset beyond belief.

To me, there is a difference between asking *if* I have kids and asking if I *plan to* have kids. Asking *if* I have kids is more of a general question that I can just answer "no" and move on, though I still typically avoid asking people that question anyway since it can be triggering or painful - I figure if they have kids, they'll tell me if that's something they want me to know. Asking if I *plan* to have kids is way, way more personal somehow.

I get that most people aren't trying to upset me when they ask. But I was holding a baby once fairly recently and someone went "Wow, you look good like that. You need one!" This was not too long after I'd found out about the PCOS and was preparing to start drug treatments for the anovulation. I just sort of sat there with this stupid, pasted on grin trying not to cry. I know that this individual probably thought she was giving me a compliment, and that's why articles like this are so wonderful - it helps raise awareness of why such a comment might be painful for someone.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I found another MYOB article that screamed out to me:

http://www.chabad.org/theJewishWoman/ar ... operty.htm

Add "questions about weight and weight loss" to the "don't ask,ever" category.

[Arete]

One of the most shameful things I ever did was ask a friend who had gained a signifigant amount of weight whether she was pregnant. She wasn't, she had just gained a signifigant amount of weight. She was very gracious and forgiving, but dammit, she should never have been put in that situation to be gracious and forgiving because I was a jackwagon. Lesson learned. Since them I never remark on weight gain, loss, children, or the plans on having any. As the article states, MYOB. :oops:

[ladidah]

In my case, when I got pregnant with my 2nd one, I was astounded at how many people asked if we'd planned it or if it was an accident.

People asked me the same question when I was pregnant with #1.

I was also really irritated by how many people just assumed my pregnancy had to be an "accident" because I wasn't "settled" in my career (a milestone people in my field usually don't reach until they're in their late 30s or older). Moderate fertility problems run in my family, and I wasn't willing to risk compounding them by waiting—but that wasn't a conversation I wanted to have with everyone who'd happened to hear I was pregnant.

So yes, general public, please keep your nose out of my uterus.