Mayim Bialik To Divorce

[FaustianSlip]

Really? That's actually really refreshing to hear (about Women of the Wall), especially in light of the fact that, as longskirts points out, a lot of kiruv groups present a very "milk before meat" (if you'll pardon the expression) approach to Orthodoxy and traditional observance when in fact most of them are run by very right-wing groups and a lot of things they present as halacha are minhag (at best, bubbe meises at worst). I was just having a conversation with someone about Partners In Torah, who not only ask on their application whether you were born Jewish, are not Jewish or converted, but then demand copies of your conversion documents if you indicate that you're a convert. If that's not... unpalatable enough, I know Orthodox converts who have gotten a hard time from the organization because they're Modern Orthodox and not Haredi. I've had some great experiences with groups like Chabad, but when I dig beneath the surface and start hitting the actual ideology... not so much. I think a lot of these kiruv groups have heavily contributed to the swing to the right, too, so I admit that my impression is perhaps more negative than most.

But thing is we don't know maybe he was interested in Judaism already.

No, of course not. And I want to be very clear in saying that I'm not trying to question his sincerity as a convert or anything like that. On the contrary, I think that the whole "aspiring Orthodox" thing would hurt more if he was a sincere convert who takes his Judaism seriously, because that's when it really stings to have people say, "Oh, but you're not really Jewish, because you didn't convert with XYZ." It denies such a fundamental part of who I am, and while you have to balance the spiritual needs of both parties in a relationship, if Mayim wants to be Orthodox, that ultimately meant facing the fact that she is married to someone that community doesn't consider Jewish, regardless of how he views himself, and he would either need to convert again (which has social and religious implications, moreso now with the "conversion crisis") or resign himself to a lifetime of no synagogue honors, people potentially not wanting to eat in his family's home because of kashrut issues, potential issues of mevushal/non-mevushal wine and on and on. I don't know that I could do that (though I think the implications in terms of religious practice can be greater for women than men in a case like this, because if I were to convert Orthodox, I basically have to agree to give up tallit, tefillin and a role in public ritual life if I want a conversion by a beit din that is widely accepted). That's a big deal.

There was also an article on Kveller about his conversion in which Mayim recounted an exchange between him and his converting rabbi that she describes thusly:

Rabbi: Okay, so what religion were you raised in, and what's wrong with it that you want to be Jewish instead?

Mayim's husband: Nothing, and I was raised Mormon.

So I don't know that he had some deep love for Judaism before meeting her, but there's not necessarily anything wrong with that. I know numerous people who came to conversion through relationships with Jews who sort of fell in love with the religion at the same time they fell in love with their spouses. One converted Orthodox and was the one to essentially tell her husband, "Look, I need to be Orthodox. This won't work if you don't get on board." The husband ended up becoming observant. That said, if her husband bought into this in a Reform context or even a Conservative one, it's not a small change if they're going to be Orthodox, and not just in the sense of kashering a kitchen or being shomer Shabbos.

[PennySycamore]

For real? I wouldn't convert for someone so prejudiced, I'd tell them to fuck off.

Not surprised. Poor man.

Mayim annoys me tremendously.

The comments blaming it on attachment parenting were bizarre though. Did she say she was a 24/7 parent or something? I was under the impression attachment parenting involved things like co-sleeping, breastfeeding, babywearing, picking up when crying (though not necessarily all) and just generally being there for your kid so they know you love them. Everyone seems to think it means never leaving their side or letting them do anything?

I have met a few mothers whose ideal was never, ever to.be separated from their kids. In fact, one mom stated that they should never be separated from her till they were adults. I found that pathological. Turns out that she did get divorced due to her husband's drug addiction. I think it must have been hard on the kids when she had to go back to work post-divorce.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I've had some great experiences with groups like Chabad, but when I dig beneath the surface and start hitting the actual ideology... not so much. I think a lot of these kiruv groups have heavily contributed to the swing to the right, too, so I admit that my impression is perhaps more negative than most.

Chabad and Aish have certainly played a role in changing the religious landscape.

I find that a lot of people who are attracted to the open-door philosophy have no intention of becoming full-on Orthodox, but will comfortably use the websites and facilities for years. They use the best, and forget the rest. In some ways, they form a movement of their own that doesn't fit into the existing Reform/Conservative/Orthodox paradigm. The one problem with this is that nobody really aspires to be as religious as the rabbi, so you don't have people actively challenging the rabbi's interpretation of Jewish law. [i find that in these circles, you get warmly embraced if you declare that you came from a completely non-religious background (single mom biker chick? Great!), because that doesn't challenge anyone. You can get people to be tolerant of the fact that you are "still growing" and "not yet at that level", but there can be more difficulty in accepting that it's not a matter of higher or lower levels, but of beliefs that are simply different.]

Then, you have a smaller group that become True Believers. Ironically, I know of some outreach congregations that become victims of their own success, since the folks that become more religious then move away.

Now, it does bother me that some of the congregations that, on paper, should be more attractive to me just aren't that welcoming and comfortable in real life. I see the major kiruv groups as posing a challenge to the religious establishment - especially the Conservative movement - and forcing a shake-up. We are seeing that big-time here. The Conservative synagogues had an established structure: you become a member, pay your dues, members elect a board, the board hires a rabbi to take care of the religious stuff (services, sermons, ceremonies, classes). Suddenly, Chabad invades the turf, offers tons of events and does active outreach. They get people to come, don't hit you up for money right away, have tons of enthusiasm and the rabbi will always recognize a new face and give a warm welcome. Not surprisingly, the old Conservative rabbis are being tossed (or "not having contract renewed", or "on sabbatical and then taking retirement"), because they just don't have the same people skills. The competition may force them to innovate.