What's an emasculated man to do?

[YPestis]

Many fundie blogs talk about the emasculation of men. Public schools emasculate boys because the whole sitting in classrooms thing was a conspiracy to favor girls. Wives emasculate husbands by nagging and not telling them they are wonderful headships. So....what are emasculated men suppose to do in the fundie world? Do they pray the nagging away? Do they "put their foot down" with their wives? The way fundie bloggers talk, men are such fragile creatures who need constant praising, unquestioned obedience, and occasional dumbing down of the wife's brain. So, what is the men's responsibility in all of this? As manly men, shouldn't they stoically endure the nagging, attempted usurption of their Godly position at home and putdowns in society? Blogging seems a heavily female activity. I don't read too many male centric blogs (usually if men are involved, it's a business ministry or a family blog). How do male fundies combat this continued "emasculation"?

[rock_girl]

They're supposed to Take Action. Emasculated fundie men are not only to put their foot down, they're to adopt the wide stance and stay that way until they lose sensation in the lower limbs or the woman caves, whichever comes first.

Failing that, a smack in the mouth is probably what a number of fundie women receive behind closed doors.

[lilah]

I have noticed that fundies seem to have a special love for boys and obsess about raising "real men" not sissies. There was one blogger who worried she'd turn her son into a wimp if she was too affectionate to him.

[emmiedahl]

They should chop off their private parts and go with it. :lol:

That is tongue in cheek of course. But seriously, if their masculinity is so dependent on outside factors, then what is dangling between their legs is next to useless.

You are still a man if you care for your babies. You are still a man if your wife has a job. You are still a man if your wife is a stark raving lunatic. You are still a man if people disagree with it. If any of these things threaten your masculinity, you were never than manly to begin with.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Many fundie blogs talk about the emasculation of men. Public schools emasculate boys because the whole sitting in classrooms thing was a conspiracy to favor girls. Wives emasculate husbands by nagging and not telling them they are wonderful headships. So....what are emasculated men suppose to do in the fundie world? Do they pray the nagging away? Do they "put their foot down" with their wives? The way fundie bloggers talk, men are such fragile creatures who need constant praising, unquestioned obedience, and occasional dumbing down of the wife's brain. So, what is the men's responsibility in all of this? As manly men, shouldn't they stoically endure the nagging, attempted usurption of their Godly position at home and putdowns in society? Blogging seems a heavily female activity. I don't read too many male centric blogs (usually if men are involved, it's a business ministry or a family blog). How do male fundies combat this continued "emasculation"?

It isn't just fundies that have issues with making kids sit quietly in classrooms for long periods of time and the way that it seems to be particularly hard for some young boys (who are more than twice as likely to be diagnosed with ADHD).

That said, the rest of your post is good. I'm teaching my son that being a man isn't about how you pee (he'd die of shock if he ever encountered unquestioned obedience) but about acting like a mensch.

[desertvixen]

But seriously, if their masculinity is so dependent on outside factors, then what is dangling between their legs is next to useless.

You are still a man if you care for your babies. You are still a man if your wife has a job. You are still a man if your wife is a stark raving lunatic. You are still a man if people disagree with it. If any of these things threaten your masculinity, you were never than manly to begin with.

QFT, especially the bolded.

[JenniferJuniper]

It isn't just fundies that have issues with making kids sit quietly in classrooms for long periods of time and the way that it seems to be particularly hard for some young boys (who are more than twice as likely to be diagnosed with ADHD).

Yes, but the vast majority of boys are not ADHD. And why is that most boys were apparently able to sit in classrooms and control themselves back in, say, 1950, when far more males than females were likely to graduate from college?

I'm not saying that kids who have special needs don't deserve the best education they can get. Just that it makes no sense to lump all boys into a category because twice as many boys as girls are diagnosed with something.

I'm the mom of a 10 year old boy who - so I'm told - is one of the best behaved kids in his class and who sucks at math and is great at writing and drawing. I don’t want him treated any differently in school than his sisters are.

I don't believe for a moment that boys are doing worse these days because the public school system favors girls. I think girls are doing better now because they don't face as much discrimination and humiliation as they did back when I was in school and was told by my 6th grade math teacher that it was okay that I got a D on a test (that I hadn't studied for) because "girls just can't do math". I think the problem for boys is primarily a cultural one and that for many boys it simply isn't "cool" to be interested in school. And that's what I need to watch out for as my son progresses through middle school and high school.

[Closed Womb]

Many fundie blogs talk about the emasculation of men. Public schools emasculate boys because the whole sitting in classrooms thing was a conspiracy to favor girls. Wives emasculate husbands by nagging and not telling them they are wonderful headships. So....what are emasculated men suppose to do in the fundie world? Do they pray the nagging away? Do they "put their foot down" with their wives? The way fundie bloggers talk, men are such fragile creatures who need constant praising, unquestioned obedience, and occasional dumbing down of the wife's brain. So, what is the men's responsibility in all of this? As manly men, shouldn't they stoically endure the nagging, attempted usurption of their Godly position at home and putdowns in society? Blogging seems a heavily female activity. I don't read too many male centric blogs (usually if men are involved, it's a business ministry or a family blog). How do male fundies combat this continued "emasculation"?

Fundie males have affairs with "sluts" who show off their shoulders and/or wear pants, then their supporters blame wives for driving them to it. That's how they combat (imaginary) emasculation.

[Wolfie]

Yes, but the vast majority of boys are not ADHD. And why is that most boys were apparently able to sit in classrooms and control themselves back in, say, 1950, when far more males than females were likely to graduate from college?

I'm not saying that kids who have special needs don't deserve the best education they can get. Just that it makes no sense to lump all boys into a category because twice as many boys as girls are diagnosed with something.

I'm the mom of a 10 year old boy who - so I'm told - is one of the best behaved kids in his class and who sucks at math and is great at writing and drawing. I don’t want him treated any differently in school than his sisters are.

I don't believe for a moment that boys are doing worse these days because the public school system favors girls. I think girls are doing better now because they don't face as much discrimination and humiliation as they did back when I was in school and was told by my 6th grade math teacher that it was okay that I got a D on a test (that I hadn't studied for) because "girls just can't do math". I think the problem for boys is primarily a cultural one and that for many boys it simply isn't "cool" to be interested in school. And that's what I need to watch out for as my son progresses through middle school and high school.

I agree with you that the educational system doesn't favor one sex over another, and that not all children who can't sit still are ADHD, but the educational system in 1950 was very different. If somebody didn't do well in it, they just got shoved aside. Now we try to help all students to succeed, and far more people overall go to college now too.

[Kaylee]

Yes, but the vast majority of boys are not ADHD. And why is that most boys were apparently able to sit in classrooms and control themselves back in, say, 1950, when far more males than females were likely to graduate from college?

Maybe because kids back then tended to have more outside chores to do, sometimes daily if they lived in a rural area, and because schools still had actual recess every day where kids could run and play and get some energy out. Also, many children then were afraid of being hit by the teacher/principal and by their parents if they misbehaved in school (not a good thing at all, but it could have been part of the reason).

I don't think it's necessarily a male/female thing, either (other than boys being more likely to be diagnosed with ADD/ADHD), or about being an underachiever. I'm female and was always an A student til I got sent to fundie school and fell behind a little (I cried when I got my first B after going back to regular school and being way behind in math), but I used constantly to get in trouble for "fidgeting", talking in class, etc because I usually finished my assignments early and sitting there in silence in those little desk chair was boring as fuck. I did learn to get around this by reading or drawing as I got older, but got punished for that as well by a few teachers.

[JenniferJuniper]

I agree with you that the educational system doesn't favor one sex over another, and that not all children who can't sit still are ADHD, but the educational system in 1950 was very different. If somebody didn't do well in it, they just got shoved aside. Now we try to help all students to succeed, and far more people overall go to college now too.

I'm not arguing that anyone should be shoved aside. Only that the notion that because more boys have ADHD than girls and the fact that girls are now doing better both in school and with standardized testing than they did in the past means that boys in general are suddenly at an unfair advantage in a classroom setting. They aren't.

[JenniferJuniper]

sorry - should read "unfair disadvantage" above.

[emmiedahl]

My husband is older than me and went to school in the sixties. It might be particular to his culture (an Italian- and Polish-American neighborhood in the SF bay area) but he says adults expected that children would be fidgety, distracted, disobedient, etc. Some adults were punitive and others tried to bribe and cajole, but no one seemed to think that he as a little boy should actually be sitting in his seat and behaving all day. That was the ultimate goal of course. When one of my stepsons had learning issues, it was hard to get my husband on board because he was like "don't pathologize this, he is a normal red-blooded kid and just needs more firmness and clear expectations."

My husband reports some pretty egregious misbehavior from him, his sisters and children in the neighborhood, and it sounds like adults kind of expected it. Stuff that in modern times would get you in Big Trouble.

[JenniferJuniper]

My husband reports some pretty egregious misbehavior from him, his sisters and children in the neighborhood, and it sounds like adults kind of expected it. Stuff that in modern times would get you in Big Trouble.

I was a kid in the early 70's, and it was a much more violent time to be a kid on every level, including the school yard.

And I would agree that "boys will be boys" was very much the mindset of most adults, including teachers.

Boys and girls were segregated in the school yard when I was in elementary school. I went to a public school that happened to be set upon quite a few lovely acres with a baseball field, football field and another big, open grassy field where kids, I mean boys, were allowed to play. Girls were not allowed on any of the grass areas, unless it was an organized school sporting event. We had to stay on a much smaller paved portion of the yard where we could play four square and hopscotch. The boys were allowed in our section to play basketball, but we could not go onto their fields. To add insult to injury, in the winter months when it was too cold for us to be allowed outside, boys were allowed access to the gym, while girls were not. We had to go to the library or stay in the cafeteria.

Now, by 1974 most girls were wearing jeans and sneakers to school and we really didn't think it was fair that we were relegated to a small area of pavement while the boys were free to roam over acres of grass just because they had penises. So with the help of some of the female teachers, we 6th grade girls organized a campus style protest. Aside from a compromise on gym access in the winter, we lost the battle.

The principal got us all together and told us we needed to understand that boys needed to not only to play sports, but also to "push each other around" to "blow off steam" while young ladies did not, and that we needed to appreciate how difficult managing boys is for the faculty. In other words, so long as they are spread out and on grass, we don't care if individual boys beat the hell out of each other so long as they come back to class calmer after the fights. And they didn't care. I saw lots of fights, but I can’t recall any ever being broken up as there was never a teacher in sight.

The following year they did eliminate the whole issue by integrating the entire school yard.

[JeanneD]

He spends his time sitting and reflecting on all his failures and finding women to blame for them. In this way he is able to excise his faults and maintain his self-image of a righteous man beset upon by these trollops and temptations. They are preventing him from being a king in his castle as is his due.