Convincing Christian book stores to not carry TTUaC/Pearls

[Vex]

I live in Australia, and although we do have fundies, they are a pretty much silent minority. Many of my Australian Christian friends aren't even aware that they exist here. The cult that most people worry about here is the CO$. It might be a stereotype that Australians are laid-back and not particularly religious, but it's a stereotype for a good reason. It's largely true.

Imagine my surprise when I walked past a Christian book store in town and saw a couple of shiny new copies of the Pearls' abomination, To Train Up a Child. I went straight inside and looked around, wondering what other fundie gems they might have had. Fortunately, they just had the two copies of TTUaC.

I took them to the front counter and asked the lady there if she had read the books. She said she hadn't, but a friend from the US on facebook loved it and so did a lot of her friends, and they sent her two copies to put in the shop. I asked her if she had any children. She obviously thought I was kind of weird and/or an IRL troll, but she told me she did, and I asked her if she would have hit her children with a small branch from a tree when they were infants.

Of course she said no, like any sane person, and I explained that by selling TTUaC she was advising parents to do just that. I found the appropriate passages in the book to back up my claim, and by that stage she was genuinely interested and horrified. She said that she was going to take the books off the shelf, because the message 'wasn't something any Christian would want to hear'.

I don't know if she'll keep them off the shelves, but I think she was sincere. She suggested I write to other Christian book stores that stock it and explain why it should be taken off the shelf. I want to make a difference, but I don't really want to pretend I'm not an atheist so they'll take me seriously, and I'm not sure how to go about it. There really aren't that many Christian book stores in my city, so if stores in other cities stock the book I'd have to e-mail them to ask about it, and then explain my position, and since it would be over e-mail or phone they almost certainly wouldn't take me seriously.

Would you do it? Or would you just let it be? I know that in the US there are too many believers to really make a dent in the numbers, but I think it might actually be possible to convince chain stores in Australia that it's a harmful book.

Tl;dr: I convinced a Christian book store to stop carrying TTUac, they suggested I should try to continue doing so, I'm looking for opinions.

[smores]

First, congrats in actually making a difference! But I get the feeling it's best in-person, unless you specifically mention in an email or the like that you recently had a conversaton about TTUAC with the owner of bookstore XYZ and you both came to the conclusion that the books do not promote Christian values, and were hoping to ensure that no children were harmed as a result of them selling the book. Guarantee that would get those books pulled fast if there are any over there.

[Witsec7]

Vex thank you so much. Welcome to direct action. :clap: :clap:

[Buzzard]

Vex thank you so much. Welcome to direct action. :clap: :clap:

QFT :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Vex]

That is actually a fantastic idea, smores. The lady at the store really seemed disgusted, so hopefully if I go back and ask if she would sign her name to a document asking for it to be banned she would do it. Maybe I could also write up a petition with snippets from the book asking people to sign their names if they don't want it to be stocked in stores. My dad has a shop I could put it in, and if she would let me have a copy there too that would be wonderful.

Although I'm totally grateful fundies are such a minority here, it does make it hard to take direct action. Before this, the best I've really been able to do is donate money to FJ and make sure that all the Christian conservative parties are on the bottom of my ballot list in state and federal elections. You guys have always been role models when it comes to actually doing something, and I passionately believe that if people don't draw attention to people like the Pearls, their insidious brand of religion will begin to permeate our culture like it has in the US.

[ilovetchotchkes]

This is brilliant! My mother in law is Christian and frequents Christian book stores and is vehemently against any kind of violence and violence towards children is a huge hot button for her (more than most people). I'm gonna see if she'd be willing to talk to bookstore owners!

[Vex]

That would be fantastic. I think that I'm going to buckle down and do some serious research to find out if other stores are carrying the book, and if they are, I'll present them with a letter highlighting what the content of the book is and asking them not to stock it.

If they were to say no, part of me wants to let them know that I'll be boycotting them and asking my friends to do the same, but I don't want to come across as rude/unreasonable/childish so I'm not entirely sure about that. It would also be good if Christian book stores were to stock books about religious child abuse (such as 'Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment' - a book I own and highly recommend - its title uses the exact same phrase as the Pearls do!), but I somehow doubt they'd be receptive.

I have discovered that there are definitely books that are banned in Australia - and encouragingly, some of them are religious in nature! I will definitely start up a petition to get the book banned here. I would LOVE to see their response if the Australian government officially declared their book too dangerous and harmful to be sold here. I'm sure outwardly they'd just write us off, or try and get their sponsors to un-ban it, but on the inside I bet they'd be pissed.

Unfortunately, Australia is pretty tolerant of spanking. I constantly hear parents threatening their kids with a 'smack' for being naughty at the shops. Hitting with objects isn't commonplace, though, and I'm sure that if I went through the book and took out some of the worst content - the stuff about hitting infants, about standing out in the snow while wet, all the bullshit about how to set up your kid just so they will fail and give you the chance to beat them... that kind of thing, alongside the information about the parents who followed the Pearls' methods and killed their kids, people would be disgusted.

I don't have a copy of the book, unfortunately. Is it all available online? I know a good portion of it is, or was.

Sorry for rambling, I'm very excited about the opportunity to help stop the spread of the Pearl's bile.

[Kitty]

That's awesome.

I don't really know how to go about getting books pulled and banned, but what everyone else said sounds great. Maybe recommend other books, though, like the one about religious xhild abuse you mentioned? They may not.take that but its worth a shot :)

[luckystone]

It's good to take action! I wrote bad reviews calling for it to not be stocked on some Aussie bookseller sites.

I'm not sure if bookshops would pay attention to a letter, but if there are other shops it might be worth visiting them. I'm not really sure if there are any Christian bookstores where I am, otherwise I might go and see.

[terranova]

I work in an Indie bookshop in New Zealand, and a couple of years ago a member of the Exclusive Bretheren community asked us to order TTUaC. Usually we don't censor what books people order, but we decided we didn't want that in our store even if it wasn't going to be on the shelves. The only other books we've ever declined to order were Mein Kampf and a book on making bombs.

Thanks for taking action :) Children around the world will be applauding you.

[lilith]

QFT :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

and again. You have saved at least two families from exposure to an abusive mindset. Yay Vex

[Vex]

I didn't do anything you guys wouldn't have! I guess two copies is a start, but I literally feel sick at the thought that it's being stocked at other book stores here. I was absolutely shocked to see it.

It's great to hear of a store that refused to stock it. I feel certain a lot of places, small ones at least, would similarly decline to stock it if they were only aware of the contents. Terranova, would you mind if at some stage I added your book shop to a list of places that have decided not to sell it? I'll understand if you want to maintain your privacy, though.

[FaustianSlip]

Vex, that was a great thing you did. And having just gotten back from a vacation in Australia (my fifth), the refreshing lack of fundies is one of the things I like best about the place. Though admittedly, we're a bit short on fundies here in China, as well. In any case, I agree that this approach probably works best in person, though I don't think the fact that you're an atheist needs to matter. I wouldn't bring up your religion at all; don't lie if they ask, of course, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that most people won't, certainly not if you're in their store in the first place.

[TISH ADAMS]

Blessed be for your courage and your wisdom. You have done a wonderful service for some innocent children.[

[shesinsane]

Hooray for Vex! :clap:

I'm imaging that the bookseller you spoke with is friends with other booksellers, and one day she'll mention the Pearls book/child abuse manual. She'll enlighten the other booksellers, and they'll all pull it from the shelves or ensure they don't carry the book. Eventually all of Australia will be saved from the Pearls because of what you started!

Ok, that's just in my imagination, but it's possible word can spread. Even if you didn't start a movement, as _lilith already said, you've saved 2 families from self destruction via TTUaC.

[pixydust]

I didn't do anything you guys wouldn't have! I guess two copies is a start, but I literally feel sick at the thought that it's being stocked at other book stores here. I was absolutely shocked to see it.

It's great to hear of a store that refused to stock it. I feel certain a lot of places, small ones at least, would similarly decline to stock it if they were only aware of the contents. Terranova, would you mind if at some stage I added your book shop to a list of places that have decided not to sell it? I'll understand if you want to maintain your privacy, though.

Two copies is great! Think about it, two people buy it, so the owner orders more....those two people also loan it out to friends....I don't know how many people you stopped for getting their hands on it (or at least slowed down)!

Great work!

[grovelina]

I think it's wonderful what you did. If I get up the ovaries maybe I will do that here in my slightly conservative hometown.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Thats great news, glad to hear the bookstore owner took the books off the shelves, they promote child abuse and contributed to the death of three children. I dont think they are Christian values either, I read a blog post by a Christian mom who was against the Pearls, and she made several quotes from the Bible which proved that child abuse is wrong, and how the rod mentioned in the quote the Pearls like refers to the one shepherds used to guide the sheep, not something to hit them with.

[Claddagh]

Good to hear those two books were yanked from the store. While it may only be two books it is a good start.

[Vex]

Sheisane, I was kind of hoping something similar - not that I'd stop the Pearls from being stopped from stopping two copies from being sold, as great as that would be, lol - but that the owner will tell other owners and word will get around. If I were still a Christian I would be just as disgusted with the Pearls and I agree it's not a message any true Christian would want to even hear, much less follow.

Grovelina - You can totally do it! It's okay if they say no, but it would be great if they could hear some opposition and be made aware of what they're selling if they haven't read the contents.

ILoveJellybeans, that's a really great way of looking at it. If I'm going to approach sellers in person I'm probably going to want to have some scripture to back up my general belief this is wrong... you never know, it could sway someone who was on the fence. The Pearls take a LOT of stuff out of context, and I love the claim that the rod was for shepherding, not beating.

I'm still incredulous they took the verse about it being better to tie a millstone around one's neck than hurt children and twisted it to mean 'If you don't beat the shit out of your kid enough you're harming them.' Right. So you take a 100% literal view of the scripture on the rod of correction and homosexuality and foolishness, but you decide to get creative when a literal view of a certain passage won't fit your theology?

[Guest Anonymous]

Good job! If you contact other bookstores, you don't have to tell them about your religion, just your concerns.

[Vex]

I was just concerned it might come up, and I really don't want to lie. I was baptised and confirmed an Anglican, so technically I guess I am Anglican, since it's one of those 'once baptised, always saved' denominations - I just don't think of myself that way. I hope they'll just assume that if I'm in Christian book stores I'm a Christian.

I've had another idea: I have a friend who is an Anglican priest, and I'm still on friendly terms with my childhood pastor. I was thinking of showing them passages from the book. There are a LOT of Anglicans in Australia, and I think the word of priests would really be credible. My friend and his wife are new parents and they would never hit their little boy, and my childhood pastor is one of the kindest people I've ever known, so I know he'd be against it too.

[BabyFullOfSin]

QFT :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

agreed! :dance:

[patsymae]

Thanks for a great idea. Normally I'm opposed to banning anything, even Mein Kamp--very big on the first amendment--but this is not suggesting that the book be banned, just making the people who sell it be aware of the contents. And since Christian bookstores are not above banning books (from their stores at least, and some of course from everyone) that they find objectionable, I think it's great to point out to the owner what is in them. I think these small Christian bookstores have a stake in having their clientele believe that the books have been vetted, and their is an implicit agreement that the sellers approve of the content of the books.

I'm going to stop in a few of the stores around here and check out if they have TTUaC, and if so then talk to the people. Of course, then I'll have to actually read the stupid book to know what pages to point to, but I consider that a worthwhile use of my time.

This is a wonderful way to suggest some realistic action that people like me can take. Thanks for this post.

[patsymae]

Aside from so much obviously disgustingness (sorry, is that a word?), will the whole family be stumping? Will the Duggar family all be going in the bus to support this truly vile individual? If so, how is the "home schooling" going to go on while they are stumping on the bus? Or is it that Jb and Mullet will just be traveling around, getting photo pics of her looking at her headship adoringly while he babbles nonsense, and at home the older girls and grandma are taking care of the younger children and doing laundry while the older boys do pretty much nothing all day?

I"m so glad I'm not in Arkansas but even there isn't somebody eventually going to figure out that there is no "home schooling" going on for these children?