'The Cross in the Closet': From Bigotry to Empathy

[BabyFullOfSin]

I'm all for people doing whatever it takes to become better people... but it seems to me that if you know you're a bigot you shouldn't need to go through this whole experience to stop being a bigot. And if he didn't know he was a bigot, why was he pretending to be gay, again?

perfectly succinct recap of my thoughts

I think (ETA: If I squint hard enough and ignore all the self-righteous pompous bullshit) can see the good intentions.. but that's not nearly enough

[BabyFullOfSin]

I remember the last time this came up. I don't think I commented then because I was so torn on this issue.

On one hand, this guy comes across as being unlikable and these "I have to live like them to feel empathy for them" type of experiments are distasteful. Also, as someone else pointed out, I don't like how gay men are treated as predatory when it comes to making sexual advances. I don't know where this guy was hanging out but I've never witnessed gay men being any more predatory than straight men. Likely, this guy just wasn't paying attention when straight men were acting the same way towards women, so it came across as aggressive to him when gay guys do it because he's never been the target before.

On the other hand, if this book keeps even one gay youth from being harassed by his or her church or religious family members for being gay... I think there is some value there.

That's a great observation - makes a lot of sense

[BabyFullOfSin]

I'm proud to be your online friend/acquaintance. Your kids are crazy lucky to have such a kick-ass mom. Way to go :banana-rock:

Thirded (fourthed?) You're a great mom. Warms my cockles when I read about such parents - your children are lucky to have you. :D

[dawn9476]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oc ... P=SOCxx2I2

He grew up in a very anti-gay household and graduated from Liberty University. He pretended to be gay in the Nashville gay scene. I am glad he stuck with it after his stereotypical gay experience at the night club. I think most would have probably quit after that.

[FaustianSlip]

Aside from the obvious questions of appropriation here, which I also find distasteful, I think my biggest objection to what this guy did is that it reinforced one of the most toxic beliefs in the evangelical Christian circle: that being gay is a choice, and those who are gay can simply change their minds and stop "engaging in the lifestyle" if they really want to do so. I haven't read the book, but I'm willing to bet money that the overwhelming majority of people in this guy's social circle believe that being gay is not a question of birth, but one of choice, and how do his actions likely appear to them? "So, I have to confess to all of you that I'm gay." Shock, concern, rejection, whatever, and then a year later.... "Just kidding! I'm straight now, see? Isn't it great?" Even if this guy says that it was all playacting in the first place, it still adds another layer of bullshit to the fallacious belief that if people really want to, they can change their sexuality. I find that really gross and irresponsible.

[Guest Anonymous]

I want to re-post a quote from the Guardian article that dawn9476 linked to:

"The vast majority of conservative Christians are not hateful bigots at all. It is just a vocal minority that gets noticed and attracts all the attention," he said.

I'd like to know what people think about this. I must admit it makes me uncomfortable. I was under the impression that the majority of conservative Christians want to restrict the civil rights of gay people (when it comes to marriage etc.). I was under the impression that the majority of conservative Christians think being gay is wrong because of the Bible. Am I wildly misguided? Am I wrong?

[FaustianSlip]

Honestly? That's been my experience. I know conservative Christians that I think are good, kind, tolerant people and that I consider friends, but at the end of the day, they're still people who vote and actively promote positions that prevent gay people from marrying, that would curtail my right to make my own reproductive decisions, that would make it more difficult and/or uncomfortable for me to be part of a minority religion without having to mouth Christian platitudes while in the public sphere. I find it frustrating and depressing sometimes, to be friends with people like this, because I don't think I'll ever understand how they can conduct themselves in such laudable fashion in their personal lives, but vote for the things they do. Similarly, I don't understand how one can read about Jesus' ministry and decide that health care, for instance, should be withheld from those who can't pay. Or that the poor should not be given a hand out of destitution by the rest of our society.

But at the end of the day, no matter how tolerant these friends of mine may be towards my religious beliefs or our mutual friends who are gay, they're voting for policies and politicians that would actively curtail our rights. They talk about hate the sin, love the sinner? I guess I'm doing the secular equivalent. I don't think the majority of conservative Christians are bigots in the sense of burning a cross on the gay neighbor's lawn, but you'd better believe they're working very hard to restrict the civil rights of not just gay people, but women, the poor and those who do not share their religious beliefs. I will also say that while I know a number of very nice people who happen to be conservative Christians, I have had far, far more negative interactions with those who share those beliefs.

[ElphabaGalinda]

I want to re-post a quote from the Guardian article that dawn9476 linked to:

I'd like to know what people think about this. I must admit it makes me uncomfortable. I was under the impression that the majority of conservative Christians want to restrict the civil rights of gay people (when it comes to marriage etc.). I was under the impression that the majority of conservative Christians think being gay is wrong because of the Bible. Am I wildly misguided? Am I wrong?

The definition of Conservative Christianity, in my experience, is about hating other people unlike yourself. I've never met a conservative Christian who doesn't think being gay is wrong. Some of them may be more subtle about it with the whole "love the sinner, hate the sin" thing, or think gay people just need some help to control their sinful nature, or think that as long as gay people are celibate forever they're just as good as everyone else. But all of that, no matter how nice they are, is still being a hateful bigot. I think whoever said that quote you provided is the wildly misguided one.

[bettertomarry]

My Great-Aunt and Uncle are these exact people. I love them both, especially since my Grandparents died, but ultimately they are voting against my and my wife's best-interest. They sent a lovely card (and check) for our wedding, but I also know they don't agree with gay marriage. They are both lovely to my wife when we see them, but I never can stop thinking that they believe we're both going to Hell. And I wonder how they will treat our (future) child.

[FeministShrew]

Aside from the obvious questions of appropriation here, which I also find distasteful, I think my biggest objection to what this guy did is that it reinforced one of the most toxic beliefs in the evangelical Christian circle: that being gay is a choice, and those who are gay can simply change their minds and stop "engaging in the lifestyle" if they really want to do so. I haven't read the book, but I'm willing to bet money that the overwhelming majority of people in this guy's social circle believe that being gay is not a question of birth, but one of choice, and how do his actions likely appear to them? "So, I have to confess to all of you that I'm gay." Shock, concern, rejection, whatever, and then a year later.... "Just kidding! I'm straight now, see? Isn't it great?" Even if this guy says that it was all playacting in the first place, it still adds another layer of bullshit to the fallacious belief that if people really want to, they can change their sexuality. I find that really gross and irresponsible.

This, exactly.

[FeministShrew]

Thanks for all the kind words.

Daughter is home from college from the weekend & we went shopping & to dinner together. She doesn't care about pronouns, because she feels "somewhere in the middle." She quoted RuPaul to me: "You can call me he. You can call me she. ... I don't care! Just as long as you call me." She hasn't decided about the name yet, either.

She also hasn't told her dad or stepmother because of how they might react.

A friend on Facebook posted a same link & we've been debating about it all morning. He questions the guy's motives, but thinks that it's a step forward, especially if it changes someone's views.

[CallmeChaCha]

I want to re-post a quote from the Guardian article that dawn9476 linked to:

I'd like to know what people think about this. I must admit it makes me uncomfortable. I was under the impression that the majority of conservative Christians want to restrict the civil rights of gay people (when it comes to marriage etc.). I was under the impression that the majority of conservative Christians think being gay is wrong because of the Bible. Am I wildly misguided? Am I wrong?

I think what this guy really meant is that the vast majority of conservative christians are not voicing their opinions to show how hateful they really are. If it's just a "vocal minority" that are getting all the attention, maybe the conservative christians who are not hateful bigots (ha!) should speak up.

[shedemei]

In general, I really loathe these kinds of books. The author gets to put on someone else's life—except not really because they can step out of it any time they want—learn something about themselves, and then everyone congratulates them on their accomplishment. It's about THE AUTHOR, not the people that they're supposedly "helping" and whose issues they're bringing to light. Even if their intentions are mostly pure, that's what these books turn into in the end.

Nickled and Dimed really opened my eyes to this. I hate that book.