'The Cross in the Closet': From Bigotry to Empathy

[fundifugee]

Guy promoting book about how he, a straight homophobic bigot, came out and lived as a gay man for a year to change his mind.

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Book comes out today, on national coming out day. I will be interested in reading the reviews.

[BlackHawk]

Guy promoting book about how he, a straight homophobic bigot, came out and lived as a gay man for a year to change his mind.

Book comes out today, on national coming out day. I will be interested in reading the reviews.

Okay... So I do have plans to read the book, especially since I can get it on my Nook for 2.99 4.99 right now... and I will do a further review.. but I just wanna say... I absolutely hate books like this. One year is not enough to live in my shoes. One year is not enough to truly understand what is happening in religious households when children come out as gay. One year is not nearly enough.

Yes, you can see the hatred, you can understand it, but in the end you still get to come back into your family, you still get to go back to being straight. You still get to go back to "normal". You don't have to live every day knowing that those who were supposed to love you still reject you. You don't live every day in fear of losing your job because of who you love. You don't have to continuously come out every day and wonder what other's reactions are going to be. You don't have to worry that someone who has known you a while will come up and talk to you about your parents, who kicked you out. You don't have to worry if stepping out of the bar you are going to get beaten with a tire iron because of who you love. You don't have to worry that you'll never be able to start a family because it's hard to find an agency who works in your home state who supports GLBT adoptions.

Until you have to live with that every day, without knowing that at the end you get to go back to being "normal", you cannot fully understand. I think it's great people want to host these "experiments" in order to "understand"... but to me that cheapens my every day life. Every day I live in these fears, I live with these fears. And until we can move to a more progressive area, I do so in an area that is not known for it's acceptance of people like me. Books like this, while sensational, do nothing to explain how I live every day. They just are another way for someone to show how "normal" we are.

Instead of pretending you are something you aren't, why not get out in the community as you? Why not just get to know us, instead of pretending to be one of us? That's what I don't understand about books like this.

(Edited to change the price of the nook book.)

[fundifugee]

Good points.

I am curious as to whether this guy ends up in solidarity with gay people with regards to rights and equality, or if his "empathy" is more a 'I learned to feel sorry for gay people rather than hate them, because Jesus loves them too and wants to save them'.

[mockingbird]

Instead of pretending you are something you aren't, why not get out in the community as you? Why not just get to know us, instead of pretending to be one of us? That's what I don't understand about books like this.

This. You can have empathy for someone, AND NOT BE A BIGOT, without appropriating their experience. And while I think a lot of these books do have good intentions, that is what they end up doing. I don't know if I'll have time to read this but I'd be interested in reading reviews from any of you who do.

[Guest Anonymous]

Previously discussed here: http://freejinger.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10810

This doesn't sit well with me.

**ETA: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/cross-clos ... d=17443219

So devout was Kurek as a teen that friends' parents would often call him to set their kids straight if they misbehaved or broke what they believed to be God's law.

"I would be the one on the phone until four in the morning, asking them to repent for their sins," he said.

Sounds charming!

... After a week, he realized he also needed help warding off the advances of gay men.

Kind-hearted Shawn, whom Kurek described as "a big black burly teddy bear," became his "pretend boyfriend."

"I needed protection to keep me balanced and teach me the nuances of gay culture and how they flirt, and to give me an excuse when guys hit on me," said Kurek.

For credibility, Kurek learned to hold hands and embrace.

But most of all, Shawn was the "first gay person that I let into my heart," said Kurek. "He was totally there for me through emotional turmoil ... I trusted him.

"He knew I was straight and he didn't take it too far -- and he taught me not to be afraid."

Eventually the initial "revulsion" disappeared, according to Kurek. "Early on if a guy pinched my ass, I would have punched someone in the face."

The hardest part was facing his parents, who were divorced.

"There was always an elephant in the room," he said. "I snooped in my mother's journal one day after I had come out and she'd written, 'I'd rather have found out from a doctor that I had terminal cancer than have a gay son.'"

With his friends, "the thing that struck me most was the isolation," he said. "Before I came out as gay, I had a very busy social life. After I came out, I didn't hear from 95 percent of my friends."

In his book, Kurek stays away from theology. "I want this seen as a people issue," he said. "When we are shunning people, we are shunning Fred and John and Liz and Mary. These are human people."

I find this guy really unlikable on several different levels. (You snooped in your mother's journal? Really? Also, way to present gay men as sexually predatory. :? ) I appreciate that he's not hating on LGBTQ people anymore, but I don't hand out cookies for adhering to the minimum of decent human behavior. It does seem that he's donating an unspecified amount of the earnings from the book to an unspecified charity.

[emmiedahl]

I appreciate that he's not hating on LGBTQ people anymore, but I don't hand out cookies for adhering to the minimum of decent human behavior. It does seem that he's donating an unspecified amount of the earnings from the book to an unspecified charity.

I feel the same way. What kind of person are you if you have to actually walk in someone's shoes before you understand they have feelings?

On the other hand, I hope that this cuts back on the hatred that fundamentalists have for LGBT communities. Maybe some people can read this book and be able to have some empathy.

As for charities, I suspect they are religious ones.

[Conuly]

I'm all for people doing whatever it takes to become better people... but it seems to me that if you know you're a bigot you shouldn't need to go through this whole experience to stop being a bigot. And if he didn't know he was a bigot, why was he pretending to be gay, again?

[Emme]

From an ABC news article

"has pledged to give some of the proceeds to a charity that helps LGBT youth who are homeless."

[ElphabaGalinda]

I feel the same way. What kind of person are you if you have to actually walk in someone's shoes before you understand they have feelings?

On the other hand, I hope that this cuts back on the hatred that fundamentalists have for LGBT communities. Maybe some people can read this book and be able to have some empathy.

As for charities, I suspect they are religious ones.

I feel the same as well. Firstly, you can't truly understand what it's like to be an LGBTQ person by pretending. You can't truly understand any experience that is not your own. Decent people understand everyone is human and worthy of respect without pretending to be someone they're not. I also find it offensive for someone to talk authoritatively about the experiences a minority group without being a member of that group. It just makes me uncomfortable in ways I can't fully articulate. He may sympathize now, but he can't truly understand what it's like. There's nothing wrong with that, what's wrong is pretending he can.

I do hope this books reaches some bigots and changes their mind, because even though I don't agree with the concept, maybe it can do some good. What I don't understand is why he couldn't have just...you know, talked to some gay people and not done this whole experiment? I find people are less likely to be bigots when someone they know well comes out (though some people still are no matter what.). Why did he need that experiment to realize the people he was hating were real human beings that he could hurt?

[Emme]

I feel the same as well. Firstly, you can't truly understand what it's like to be an LGBTQ person by pretending. You can't truly understand any experience that is not your own. Decent people understand everyone is human and worthy of respect without pretending to be someone they're not. I also find it offensive for someone to talk authoritatively about the experiences a minority group without being a member of that group. It just makes me uncomfortable in ways I can't fully articulate. He may sympathize now, but he can't truly understand what it's like. There's nothing wrong with that, what's wrong is pretending he can.

I do hope this books reaches some bigots and changes their mind, because even though I don't agree with the concept, maybe it can do some good. What I don't understand is why he couldn't have just...you know, talked to some gay people and not done this whole experiment? I find people are less likely to be bigots when someone they know well comes out (though some people still are no matter what.). Why did he need that experiment to realize the people he was hating were real human beings that he could hurt?

I'm hoping that he'll get a better response from him writing as a straight christian man.. sometimes it's easier for someone who isn't part of the group to get the message across... I hate that, but it's true. Maybe he can speak the language of the bigots and change some minds?

I may have to read this, but I don't really want to give him my $ until I know how I feel about him....

[Guest Anonymous]

I'm still wary of this book for all the same reasons I gave in the first thread. If anything, the video has made it worse. He invokes Jesus pretending to be something he wasn't in order to walk among the common people. Implicit in that is the idea that Jesus was better than those people, Jesus was divine, He was the Son of God. Essentially, this is the story of one man slumming it... but, you know, in a Jesusy way. :roll:

[ElphabaGalinda]

I'm still wary of this book for all the same reasons I gave in the first thread. If anything, the video has made it worse. He invokes Jesus pretending to be something he wasn't in order to walk among the common people. Implicit in that is the idea that Jesus was better than those people, Jesus was divine, He was the Son of God. Essentially, this is the story of one man slumming it... but, you know, in a Jesusy way. :roll:

I never thought of it from that angle, but that makes it worse.

[FeministShrew]

I have mixed feelings about this guy. Hatred toward the LGBTQ community is one of the reasons I stopped going to church. My beliefs & attitudes changed completely, and I didn't have to pretend to be a lesbian for that to happen. It seems like a slap in the face to me.

My kids have close LGBTQ friends,and they're like my own children to me. I've known some of them since birth, & to watch them come out & be rejected by family & friends is heartbreaking.

My daughter recently came out to me as Genderqueer. She is attracted to males, but also identifies as a male. She told me she feels like a gay man stuck in a female body. She uses the masculine form of her name & wears men's clothes.

(I know I'm using female pronouns, but she's at college & we haven't had a chance to talk about everything. If she prefers me to refer to her as a man, I will, & proudly tell people that I have 2 sons. Gay, straight, transgender, bi, I don't care, that's my child & I love her. Nothing changes that. For the writer's mother to say she'd prefer him to be terminally ill than gay makes my blood boil. I'm really afraid her dad will react that way.)

I can't imagine how this group of kids would feel if they found out someone they knew for a year & accepted as one of the gang had only been pretending to be gay all along. I know I would feel betrayed & hurt. They're human beings, for fuck's sake, not lab mice. :evil:

Sorry for the rant.

And you guys are the first people I've told about my daughter coming out. I haven't mentioned it to anyone irl because I don't know if she's ready to go public around here yet. I live in a very backward area.

[Roycroft]

I thought the same thing, Sogba.

It seems like he's saying 'Look at me, deigning to interact with the sinners! Don't I remind you of >significant pause< anyone?'

Self-aggrandizing and patronizing at the same time, IMO.

[CallmeChaCha]

I was wondering if maybe he was gay and was "experimenting" to see how his family & friends would react??? Also, WTF @ this

Eventually the initial "revulsion" disappeared, according to Kurek.

[Gil]

This book irritates me. I've seen it before but didn't realize it hadn't been released.

If there's anyone who should be leading the conversations about coming out, it's a straight man. Because a straight man understands what it's like to come out of the closet after battling with crippling internalized homophobia and self-dislike. Kurek gets to stop playing at being gay any time he wants. He gets to raise his hands in the end and say "but I was just kidding, you guys!"

It says nothing to me. He got fodder for a book and nothing else. If he wanted to make a difference and really make up for being a homophobe, then he could have written about working with at-risk gender/sexual minority youth or campaigning against bigotry. He didn't. He pretended to be a part of our community because it was the best way he could make money.

[Emme]

I have mixed feelings about this guy. Hatred toward the LGBTQ community is one of the reasons I stopped going to church. My beliefs & attitudes changed completely, and I didn't have to pretend to be a lesbian for that to happen. It seems like a slap in the face to me.

My kids have close LGBTQ friends,and they're like my own children to me. I've known some of them since birth, & to watch them come out & be rejected by family & friends is heartbreaking.

My daughter recently came out to me as Genderqueer. She is attracted to males, but also identifies as a male. She told me she feels like a gay man stuck in a female body. She uses the masculine form of her name & wears men's clothes.

(I know I'm using female pronouns, but she's at college & we haven't had a chance to talk about everything. If she prefers me to refer to her as a man, I will, & proudly tell people that I have 2 sons. Gay, straight, transgender, bi, I don't care, that's my child & I love her. Nothing changes that. For the writer's mother to say she'd prefer him to be terminally ill than gay makes my blood boil. I'm really afraid her dad will react that way.)

I can't imagine how this group of kids would feel if they found out someone they knew for a year & accepted as one of the gang had only been pretending to be gay all along. I know I would feel betrayed & hurt. They're human beings, for fuck's sake, not lab mice. :evil:

Sorry for the rant.

And you guys are the first people I've told about my daughter coming out. I haven't mentioned it to anyone irl because I don't know if she's ready to go public around here yet. I live in a very backward area.

You are a kickass mom. Your kids are so very lucky to have you. It sounds like you respect and honor them and love them for WHO they are. If we had more parents like you, the LGBT world would be a better place. I've had friends get kicked out of homes and smacked around and disowned. So thank you for being you and for getting it.

Edited to add: congrats and tons of love to your gender-queer kiddo!

[valsa]

I remember the last time this came up. I don't think I commented then because I was so torn on this issue.

On one hand, this guy comes across as being unlikable and these "I have to live like them to feel empathy for them" type of experiments are distasteful. Also, as someone else pointed out, I don't like how gay men are treated as predatory when it comes to making sexual advances. I don't know where this guy was hanging out but I've never witnessed gay men being any more predatory than straight men. Likely, this guy just wasn't paying attention when straight men were acting the same way towards women, so it came across as aggressive to him when gay guys do it because he's never been the target before.

On the other hand, if this book keeps even one gay youth from being harassed by his or her church or religious family members for being gay... I think there is some value there.

[FeministShrew]

You are a kickass mom. Your kids are so very lucky to have you. It sounds like you respect and honor them and love them for WHO they are. If we had more parents like you, the LGBT world would be a better place. I've had friends get kicked out of homes and smacked around and disowned. So thank you for being you and for getting it.

Edited to add: congrats and tons of love to your gender-queer kiddo!

Now you've made me cry! :cry:

[ElphabaGalinda]

Now you've made me cry! :cry:

Have to second what a kickass mom you are. I wish my mom was more like you. This is exactly what should happen when a child comes out to a parent. If her dad reacts that way, she will always know she has you, because I can tell you love your children exactly as they are. It's sad that this is praise worthy, but I've had too much experience with parents who do prefer the terminal illness. Also your daughter is awesome, and there are many people out there who will love her (or him, if she chooses to go that route) exactly the way she is.

[Sobeknofret]

Have to second what a kickass mom you are. I wish my mom was more like you. This is exactly what should happen when a child comes out to a parent. If her dad reacts that way, she will always know she has you, because I can tell you love your children exactly as they are. It's sad that this is praise worthy, but I've had too much experience with parents who do prefer the terminal illness. Also your daughter is awesome, and there are many people out there who will love her (or him, if she chooses to go that route) exactly the way she is.

Thirding! You may be one of my new parenting role-models.

[Emme]

Now you've made me cry! :cry:

HUGS!!! :banana-rainbow: I was going to give you one of the huggie smilies but I couldn't find it. So here's a rainbow banana dancing with joy for you!

[Mela99]

I have mixed feelings about this guy. Hatred toward the LGBTQ community is one of the reasons I stopped going to church. My beliefs & attitudes changed completely, and I didn't have to pretend to be a lesbian for that to happen. It seems like a slap in the face to me.

My kids have close LGBTQ friends,and they're like my own children to me. I've known some of them since birth, & to watch them come out & be rejected by family & friends is heartbreaking.

My daughter recently came out to me as Genderqueer. She is attracted to males, but also identifies as a male. She told me she feels like a gay man stuck in a female body. She uses the masculine form of her name & wears men's clothes.

(I know I'm using female pronouns, but she's at college & we haven't had a chance to talk about everything. If she prefers me to refer to her as a man, I will, & proudly tell people that I have 2 sons. Gay, straight, transgender, bi, I don't care, that's my child & I love her. Nothing changes that. For the writer's mother to say she'd prefer him to be terminally ill than gay makes my blood boil. I'm really afraid her dad will react that way.)

I can't imagine how this group of kids would feel if they found out someone they knew for a year & accepted as one of the gang had only been pretending to be gay all along. I know I would feel betrayed & hurt. They're human beings, for fuck's sake, not lab mice. :evil:

Sorry for the rant.

And you guys are the first people I've told about my daughter coming out. I haven't mentioned it to anyone irl because I don't know if she's ready to go public around here yet. I live in a very backward area.

I'm proud to be your online friend/acquaintance. Your kids are crazy lucky to have such a kick-ass mom. Way to go :banana-rock:

[notablesquid]

I work at a university and outside our office yesterday was an LGBTQ club's Coming Out day celebration. In addition to honoring LGBTQ people, all folks were invited to identify something about their identity they are proud of - it was great fun to see what each person listed. There was also a photo booth with the 'set' being a brightly painted door to come through and costume items for dress up if desired.

Anyways, it was great to see so many out students of all stripes - allies included. And it made me happy to hear about how supportive some students' families have always been. I'm hopeful that the tide is beginning to turn and that acceptance is becoming more people's lived experience. Of course, there are many miles yet to go and much bigotry to be uprooted and tossed out. While I find this man's book to be an offensive

All this to say: FeministShrew, you're a great mom. Thank you for truly loving your children the way they deserve - as they are. May your child find peace on the journey.

[ADoyle90815]

Have to second what a kickass mom you are. I wish my mom was more like you. This is exactly what should happen when a child comes out to a parent. If her dad reacts that way, she will always know she has you, because I can tell you love your children exactly as they are. It's sad that this is praise worthy, but I've had too much experience with parents who do prefer the terminal illness. Also your daughter is awesome, and there are many people out there who will love her (or him, if she chooses to go that route) exactly the way she is.

As others have said, you're a kickass mom. :banana-rainbow: :gay-rainbow: