I'm sorry, what did she just say?

[Koala]

Surely I am misunderstanding. Surely Lori hasn't stepped up her woman hating game to the point of encouraging victims of spousal abuse to submit to and respect their abusers.

Is it possible to pay honor, like toll or taxes, to a cruel, abusive, unbelieving man? If everything in her recoils from her husband's injustice or hatred? If she fears suffering or other frightening consequences?

The grace of God has proved through the centuries to be sufficient for countless 'impossible' human circumstances. She may, through that grace, pay honor and respect to him as to the Lord, certain as although it is unmerited by and apparently lost on her husband, it is not lost on Christ

Well fuck that. If my poor mother had stayed with her abuser (my father) I am relatively certain she wouldn't be here today to talk about it. You know why? Because respect and submission weren't what he was looking for. That would imply that somehow she had control over the beatings. No he just beat her because he was a violent sonofabitch that liked to drink, and drinking exacerbated his violent streak.

You know what else? "God" or "God's grace" didn't help her. He didn't help her when she was beaten unmercifully, and he didn't help her when she finally got the courage to walk away. He didn't help her when she struggled to put food on the table for the pair of us, and he didn't help her when she pieced her life back together and made something of it.

Want to know who else wasn't helped by "God's grace"? The countless women who have died at the hands of their abusers. The ones who couldn't get away. The ones who listened to hags like Lori and stayed while their husbands slowly beat them to death.

Lori is a vile human being if there ever was one. I cringe when I think of the abuse victims that will read her post and resolve themselves to being stuck being "submissive" to their abuser. God help them...oh yeah, I forgot...that doesn't happen in real life.

[Koala]

Link:

http://lorialexander.blogspot.com/2012/09/ill-obey-if-he-obeys.html#idc-container

[Arete]

Am I reading this right that she is saying Jesus is happy when you pay honor to your abuser? What a twat.

[Koala]

Am I reading this right that she is saying Jesus is happy when you pay honor to your abuser? What a twat.

In Lori's world Jesus is happy as long as the women are in their place and the children are being beaten w/ regularity. She would probably tell a woman to submit to her husband right up until the last blow was finished (and then she'd go write a post on how it was all the wife's fault in the first place and how unfair it is how mean women are to their "sweet husbands").

[Kaylee]

Oh, you're reading her right. She's said similar things before and even some of her fans and regular commenters have taken her to task for it. Of course, once you disagree she deleted your posts and sets all future ones to blocked or moderated, so most dissent doesn't show up on her blog.

She's not the only one of these self-proclaimed Titus 2 mentors to encourage women to stay with and submit to their abusers, either. Debbie Pearl gives at least one example of it in CTBHH - she does say she counseled the woman to leave or stay and submit, but the idea was very much that if she stayed she should obey his every whim and not do anything that could be seem as complaining or asking for help.

Also, the whole "cruel, abusive, unbelieving man" thing pisses me off. Most of the worst abusive I've seen has come from Christian men (people can argue that, but they identified as Christians, were considered Christians by their church and community, and often used religion to keep their family under their thumb, so I'll take it at face value). It's insulting as hell to the majority of men who are not Christians and are still good people and not abusers. It also becomes a way for professing Christians to hide and deny their abusive actions, because people don't believe a "good Christian man" would do such things, and encourages women to stay in abusive relationships in hopes that their abuser will stop abusing them if/when they convert to Christianity, which rarely happens.

[doe]

This 'Christian women submitting to the abusive husband' mentality seems to operate under the belief that 1. If a woman would just let her man wear the pants he wouldn't have to beat her. Or 2. If you do what God wants where your marriage is concerned He will bless you and "change your husband's heart." If He does not do this, then that means He "has other plans for you."

Wives are pretty much expected to sacrifice their lives like Jesus in this instance. Or any instance. If you add fundie Catholic to the mix then a wife's suffering is beautiful and creates healing or something.

[YPestis]

This type of advice was given to women who want to flee their abusers. It's still given to women living in many third world, patriarchal society. I don't know what to make of women who believe this garbage. Are these women just lucky to have a good husband and so have never suffered abuse? Or are these women who are abused themselves and try to justify staying with their abuser by giving this advice to other victims? It baffles the brain.....

[Want More Babies]

HMMM Lori is quoting from a book here (Elizabeth Elliott) and it makes me wonder how much of this is Lori pissed at her life so she is trying to convince herself as much as others. Does Ken Alexander beat her? I know I couldn't live with that shrew. Maybe we can start having Ken Alexander wife abuser show up like we do with Doug Phillips is a tool.

Lori Alexander is at the top of my fundie bloggers I detest list. And she wonders why women don't want her advice. :lol:

[Lillybee]

It was either Zsu or the Stinking HW who told abused wives to pray and maybe God would kill the abuser.

[bionicmlle]

So.... does this woman do any "workshops" and can we FJ-truth-bomb her? Like, with, cupcakes, glitter and ... TRUTHY TRACTS?? What a cunt.

[gnegirl]

My older sister was killed by her abusive husband. Submitting to him would not have done a thing, he was a violent psychopath who liked to get drunk or high, and then would beat her up for fun. He did it a few times in front of me when I was a kid myself and our parents were out of the house and my sister was staying with us. I never knew anyone could be that heartless of a person.

When she was finally in a position to get away from this a**hole, he amped up the violence until the inevitable result.

He ended up in prison, eventually dying of AIDS.

[GeoBQn]

I'm sorry for what your family went through, gnegirl.

Anger does not cause abuse. A man with an abusive mindset will find reasons to become angry, and all the submission in the world will never stop it.

[pixydust]

I can't even read Lori....she triggers me hard core!

Psycho bitch.

[Arete]

gnegirl, I am so sorry.

[Hisey]

Gnegirl, I'm so sorry about your sister. I can't imagine how painful that must be.

My mother was beaten by my father throughout my childhood. He didn't get drunk or high, he was just a cruel, sadistic bastard. In nearly 3 decades of marriage, he never had a kind word for her--he treated her like a serf. He did small, cruel things as well as beating her. She was a kind and gentle soul who never really understood what was going on. Believe me, she would have been happy to have been submissive if that's what it took to end the abuse and beatings. Those came out of nowhere; they were unrelated to her behavior.

Thank God she got out after we were grown. My childhood is a memory of horror. Sadly, my brothers trauma-bonded with my father and blame things on my mother. Getting far away has been the only answer for me.

Lori's posts are insane. What reallly kills me is when commenters write in, askign for help with their abusive husbands, and she gives them some more shit about submissiveness and winning them without a word.

[Anxious Girl]

Lori, are you even living in reality, you asshatish bitch? Has this bitch ever been here?

[ADoyle90815]

Submission won't stop an asshole from abusing his wife, as he'll come up with another excuse to treat her the way he does.

[lilwriter85]

So.... does this woman do any "workshops" and can we FJ-truth-bomb her? Like, with, cupcakes, glitter and ... TRUTHY TRACTS?? What a cunt.

She is indeed a cunt. Lori doesn't do any "workshops", but she use is using the blog to give a lot of shitty advice based on the "good book". She has talked about how and her husband have mentored couples through their church. Her husband has a divinity master's degree. She also said that she mentored women on her own. That shit makes me gag, but in a recent blog entry she admitted that there have been couples who have rejected her and Ken as mentors. She also said that women have rejected her advice. I'm glad that some people have rejected her and Ken when it comes to martial advice.

ETA: Lori gives her shitty advice by referencing Pearl books, Mark Driscoll crap and other misogynist Christian writers.

[jjmennonite]

My Christian sister and cousin both had abusive a-hole husbands. They both used the same Christian counselor who told them that God does not like abuse, and they both eventually got out. Unfortunately, my neice married a man much like her father, so the cycle is continuing.

Another sister of mine had three abusive husbands - she managed to leave the first two and the third one was the father of her children. Although she was no longer a proffessing Christian, our upbringing was such that she was never going to leave him. Fortunatley, he left her, and the kids are mostly OK since they were very young when it happened.

Lori is a perpetrator of spiritual abuse.

[lilwriter85]

HMMM Lori is quoting from a book here (Elizabeth Elliott) and it makes me wonder how much of this is Lori pissed at her life so she is trying to convince herself as much as others. Does Ken Alexander beat her? I know I couldn't live with that shrew. Maybe we can start having Ken Alexander wife abuser show up like we do with Doug Phillips is a tool.

Lori Alexander is at the top of my fundie bloggers I detest list. And she wonders why women don't want her advice. :lol:

I don't think Ken physically abuses Lori. But I think he emotionally abuses Lori. Ken looks shady to me. I have said he looks the Unabomber, but something about him in pictures shows that he like controlling Lori. I don't think they are happy. The recent entry on how they always hold hands gave me the feeling that they do that to appear happy to other people. I don't have a lot of sympathy for Lori, because I get the vibe that she emotionally abuses others in her family. She has made blog entries where she has bashed her parents and there was a blog entry in which she bitched about how her daughter made vegetable soup for her during an illness. She is a major Pearl fangirl and the entry about her son force feeding his toddler daughter was awful.

[lilwriter85]

I just remembered that latriviata and other FJer did truth bomb Lori's Facebook page, but she deleted the posts immediately and I believed she blocked latriviata and the other FJer.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I hate people like this. It makes me mad to hear her give this kind of advice.

I have a very lovely friend, one of the kindest people I have ever met, who was in an abusive relationship for years, and would probably be dead by now if she didnt manage to break free. She tried being submissive and nice to him, but he still found reasons to hit her, and sometimes just did it because he felt like it. He enjoyed torturing her, and nothing could have stopped that other than her leaving.

If God wanted to help, instead of wanting them to follow what their abusive partner said, to avoid beatings, he could have at least made it so the abusers no longer felt the need to torture and hurt others,

[gnegirl]

I'm sorry for what your family went through, gnegirl.

Anger does not cause abuse. A man with an abusive mindset will find reasons to become angry, and all the submission in the world will never stop it.

This! Abuse is not about *anger*, its about *control*. It may look like anger, but sometimes its simply a sadistic need to hurt someone else.

No amount of submission can correct a sadistic power-trip.

This whole mess did have the effect of ending the fundie-lite experiment my parents were flirting with at the time, thank the FSM.

[grovelina]

This 'Christian women submitting to the abusive husband' mentality seems to operate under the belief that 1. If a woman would just let her man wear the pants he wouldn't have to beat her. Or 2. If you do what God wants where your marriage is concerned He will bless you and "change your husband's heart." If He does not do this, then that means He "has other plans for you."

Wives are pretty much expected to sacrifice their lives like Jesus in this instance. Or any instance. If you add fundie Catholic to the mix then a wife's suffering is beautiful and creates healing or something.

yeah that. Unfortunately, here as in most everywhere else, fundies fail logic. An abuser doesn't need a reason to abuse and there is nothing you can do to make them change.

[shesinsane]

Many people here have given examples of abuse, and I notice something in common - it's not the women causing it, it's the men. The guy gets drunk/high and beats his woman, regardless of her actions. But since Lori believes that abuse is triggered by something the victim did/didn't do, instead of the abuser's fault, it's up to the women to put a stop to their abuse.

Besides, modern Christianity offers so few martyrdom opportunities, wouldn't allowing your headship to literally beat the life out of you show your utmost devotion to Jebus? :roll: Especially when you know your lord is highly concerned with your marriage, staving children are a lower priority to Him.