Fundies and Set Theory

[roddma]

They don't teach set theory.

http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-d ... ntali.html

[Boltingmadonna]

Wow, roddma, that was fascinating and informative. I think the author may be giving fundies too much credit, though. Most of them don't actually have any clue what set theory really is. All they know about it is those rudimentary Venn diagrams that used to appear in those dreaded "new math" textbooks--fifty years ago! They're still jerking in reflex horror over something that happened in the sixties and that they didn't understand then, and still don't. They don't even know what Venn diagrams are, much less real set theory--but they know they're agin 'em!

[thoughtful]

Thanks for posting that.

I'm not sure all of the analysis about why fundies hate set theory was necessary, though -- I think it's because the Venn diagram at the top of the article looks like balls and a penis! :lol:

No, seriously, that was an interesting article.

[emmiedahl]

They are starting to introduce set theory in my son's third grade class and I had no idea this was controversial. I mean, we are talking about Venn diagrams here. And (I am not sure if it is related but they were introduced in the same unit) the concept of negative numbers.

It seems like such a small thing, but I am not sure how you learn calculus without bumping into it. Same thing with biology and evolution, I suppose.

Maybe set theory is not, as jericho would put it, "settled" math. :lol: After all, it has the word theory in it. And everyone knows, a theory is only "a comprehensive explanation of some aspect of nature that is supported by a vast body of evidence. Scientific theories are so well established that no new evidence is likely to alter them substantially." That means a guess, amirite?

[CrazySister]

Had to google "set theory." (I know what it is; didn't know the phrase ;) ) Anyway, I had to laugh at this definition of it from mathworld.wolfram.com/SetTheory.html: "The mathematical theory of sets. Set theory is closely associated with the branch of mathematics known as logic." Ahh, that would be the problem.

[Anxious Girl]

Or evolution. Or teach history properly. Or science. Or literature and writing. (Reading only Abeka and the Bible doesn't count.) Or government (political science is not all about how democracy is the best thing evah! but observing how other political systems work; how they're supposed to work; but how they really work in other countries * am not a political scientist; so somebody correct me if I'm wrong :oops: * ). They remind me of a sub-set of Scholastics in the 11th - early 15th century where some Europeans thought that education should only be for men and revolve around the Bible and how to apply Biblical "morals" in life.

No wonder Europe was stuck in the Dark Ages for a few centuries. :roll:

[emilymea]

I teach children privately in a one on one situation. I start children on sorting and Venn diagrams between the age of five and six. Once they understand alike and different they can create Venn diagrams based on objects' characteristics. For example a kindergarten student who knows all their letters can complete a diagram that compaires where one circle is " the letter Aa" an the other circle is "capital letters." Where they overlap would be "capital A." It would take practice and guidance, but a child could do that much set theory at five or six.

That's a kind of fuzzy example, but it's the first one I thought of off the top of my head.

[NoQuiverNoCry]

Emilymea, as I read your post, I got the Sesame Street song in my head, "one of these things is not like the other; one of these things just doesn't belong...."

Would that exercise--grouping similar things--be early-learning set theory?

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Emilymea, as I read your post, I got the Sesame Street song in my head, "one of these things is not like the other; one of these things just doesn't belong...."

Would that exercise--grouping similar things--be early-learning set theory?

Heh. I had that exact same song run through my head too!

Of course surely fundies don't want their kids watching "Sesame Street..."

[smores]

That was interesting. Abeka and BJU surely are crazy.

[emilymea]

Heh. I had that exact same song run through my head too!

Of course surely fundies don't want their kids watching "Sesame Street..."

That's hilarious that both of you thought that. Yeah, it's beginning set theory and logic. It's fun but sometimes frustrating to teach.

[Minerva]

I guess sets are a myth now. :lol:

I don't even know what to say about this. Except that it's a shame fundies have to arbitrarily choose perfectly neutral things and make them controversial. They are why we can't have nice things.

[NoQuiverNoCry]

It really does seem seem arbitrary. And it's not like they don't already have a zillion proscriptions and admonitions to set them apart (and make themselves feel special). Why add more? Plus, I really don't get this one. Set theory? Really?

[thoughtful]

They are afraid of sets education.

I'm sorry.

[julie paradox]

Or evolution. Or teach history properly. Or science. Or literature and writing. (Reading only Abeka and the Bible doesn't count.) Or government (political science is not all about how democracy is the best thing evah! but observing how other political systems work; how they're supposed to work; but how they really work in other countries * am not a political scientist; so somebody correct me if I'm wrong :oops: * ). They remind me of a sub-set of Scholastics in the 11th - early 15th century where some Europeans thought that education should only be for men and revolve around the Bible and how to apply Biblical "morals" in life.

No wonder Europe was stuck in the Dark Ages for a few centuries. :roll:

The DarK Ages were over by the end of the 11th century.

[MonkeyMomma]

Is this because Venn diagrams are part of the ebil feminist lesbian atheist agenda?

To be fair, that's probably why I love them so much.

edited for a godless riffle.

[nimerha]

I wish I could be surprised by this crap.

It's nothing new, anyway - even during his life, Georg Cantor was ridiculed, derided and even accused of pantheism, heresy and "corrupting youth" (it's a wild lifestyle - sex, drugs and mathematics). It all helped drive him into an early grave (earlier than it should have been, anyway).

The trouble is... all this outrage and bullshit are so OLD, and set theory has been proven over and over to be right in the years since - not just universally consented on, but proven - it is so fundamental that the mathematics we have now are impossible without it. We were taught the concept of infinity hierarchies in math 102 because it's so required for further study. I guess nobody told our fundies that the calculus and algebra results that they use every day were only obtained through set theory. Reality denial at its best. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so pitiful.

[treemom]

I wish I could be surprised by this crap.

It's nothing new, anyway - even during his life, Georg Cantor was ridiculed, derided and even accused of pantheism, heresy and "corrupting youth" (it's a wild lifestyle - sex, drugs and mathematics). It all helped drive him into an early grave (earlier than it should have been, anyway).

The trouble is... all this outrage and bullshit are so OLD, and set theory has been proven over and over to be right in the years since - not just universally consented on, but proven - it is so fundamental that the mathematics we have now are impossible without it. We were taught the concept of infinity hierarchies in math 102 because it's so required for further study. I guess nobody told our fundies that the calculus and algebra results that they use every day were only obtained through set theory. Reality denial at its best. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so pitiful.