Pray for Ian

[BlondeAsTheyCome]

I'm trying out figure out how to put this all into words, and am hoping it isn't too rambly or incoherent.

Ian and Larissa attend a Sovereign Grace MInistries church in PA. SGM has been discussed here before on FJ. The only reason that it is relevant is because them being together for 10 months before his accident is pretty much assured that you will get married. SGM believes in a courtship model, which isn't quite as strict as some of the fundies, but still. All of that to say, beyond ring shopping, the intent to marry was there before the accident because they were in a relationship. People at SGM don't just get into relationships, except to see if they should get married or not.

It does astound me though that they went through with the wedding and everything. It is a sad situation.

[chaotic life]

If she choose to stay and be his primary caregiver for so long, I can see why marriage would make sense to give her legal recognition and authority as his caregiver. In the video, she says his intention before the accident was marriage. She also mentions that his father was the one who brought it back up before his death that it was time for them to marry.

Honestly, she knows what she has choosen. Regardless of where his conginitive level is, he can talk some and he cleary says he loves his wife. I can't find anything to snark on either of them for. I can say she is going to have times she battles depression. She has choosen a very hard life for herself.

I'm a bit icked out that she is so devoted to John Piper and his teachings but he only gets really vile if she ever pursues children.

I think it shows a great deal of character and strength to stand beside the man she loved after an injury of this level. I also think there is no way to ever bring a child into the marriage in any sort of a healthy manner. I also hope they are not convinced he will eventually see a full recovery. I think those are the cases where surviving become the hardest, because full recovery doesn't come after injuries this extensive.

I would guess it's a no-brainer that he's on disability at this point, which ought to pay for a personal assistant for him. It's very common to employ a close friend or family member as that personal assistant. Their attachment to the person makes them significantly safer than just someone on the street. Since his brother moved, moving into his parents' house might be about having his mother work as his assistant instead of trusting a stranger with his care now.

[mockingbird]

As for the injury -- I do think he is pretty severely neurologically impaired but I don't really see a good reason why he would be sexually impaired. But if he needed a judge to grant consent for marriage.... Conception seems like a bag'o'worms.

The concerns I might have about bringing kids into the relationship isn't really whether they could conceive but if there would be enough resources to care for the kids. It seems like he needs a lot of care himself and wouldn't be able to be actively involved in much of the physical care of the kids and possibly even just being able to supervise the kids, plus she works. Obviously there are working single moms out there but with the extra challenges he brings they'd probably need a lot of family support to help out with any kids.

[Inanna]

Is this the one that Regretsy helped with the Doctor Who request? They seem familiar but I'm not sure if they're the couple or not.

ETA Never mind, I think I'm totally confused.

You're thinking of washandtashi.blogspot.com/ I think. I had a moment of confusion as well and had to go look it up.

[Guest Anonymous]

It looks like his late father had quite a role in keeping them together. I hope she didn't feel guilted into marrying him, because his father was dying. Even if it was well-intentioned and borne of tragedy, that doesn't make it fair or respectful of her. :?

The Piper connection squicks the fuck out of me. Piper is an outright misogynist who believes women should submit even to abuse. Not a great teaching to follow on a more level-playing field, and frankly, quite frightening to me in this instance, where Ian's capacity for cognitive reasoning seems to be an unknown. :cry:

[kayray]

I remember another blog where the husband (or fiance?), a former member of the military I believe, was in a car accident or something similar that left him with a severe brain injury. She was injured in the same collision. I don't think they had been married for very long. They came across as fundie lite or something to me, though I may be recalling incorrectly.

I can't find the blog now, but it was so depressing to read as the wife seemed rather convinced that her husband was going to recover one day. He was very infantile though, the pictures of him before and after were shocking, and he needed help feeding, bathing, eating, and so on. It was pretty clear that he was not going to have the recovery she hoped for, or seemed to believe in, and it was just bizarre to read at times when she would talk about having kids with him or something. It was so sad, as the dynamics had really become one where she was his caretaker.

Anyway, these kind of stories hit home. When I was in my early 20's my boyfriend of five years had a sudden massive cerebral hemorrhage. There was emergency surgery, barbituate induced comas and many days in the ICU. During that time, I wondered what would happen if he did emerge from the coma, as the damage looked to be severe and would have affected his personality, brain function and much of his independence (including mobility, movement). I just was not sure what I would do. He died after a few days in the ICU so I never had to really be faced with that decision then, and as sad as the whole thing was in some ways I am kind of grateful he did pass on and was not left to lead a life in that state, but it is something I have talked about with my husband. I know that if I was in that state I would wish for him to be able to find a new partner who really can communicate and provide him with a happy, fulfilling and emotionally and physically intimate relationship that is not based on care-taking.

[Sumeri]

Anyway, these kind of stories hit home. When I was in my early 20's my boyfriend of five years had a sudden massive cerebral hemorrhage. There was emergency surgery, barbituate induced comas and many days in the ICU. During that time, I wondered what would happen if he did emerge from the coma, as the damage looked to be severe and would have affected his personality, brain function and much of his independence (including mobility, movement). I just was not sure what I would do. He died after a few days in the ICU so I never had to really be faced with that decision then, and as sad as the whole thing was in some ways I am kind of grateful he did pass on and was not left to lead a life in that state, but it is something I have talked about with my husband. I know that if I was in that state I would wish for him to be able to find a new partner who really can communicate and provide him with a happy, fulfilling and emotionally and physically intimate relationship that is not based on care-taking.

They hit home for me too. Ten years ago my fiance died suddenly of a ruptured aeortic aneuryrism. I very clearly remember following the ambulance to the hospital while making plans in my head about how certainly he would need care, and maybe we could get a hospital bed in! and we might have to move, etc. As it happened, he was pronounced dead on arrival at the hospital, but I have always remembered those thoughts that if he lived, of course I would have taken care of him. It never occured to me to do otherwise.

But in reality, I would have missed out on an entirely different chapter of my life if he had lived. Since then I remarried, had another child, moved, started a different career...it's really hard to imagine a life different from the one I have now. But I can completely understand the decision that Larissa made. I also completely understand how those choices must feel very difficult to her sometimes.

So sorry for your loss, kayray.

[kayray]

They hit home for me too. Ten years ago my fiance died suddenly of a ruptured aeortic aneuryrism. I very clearly remember following the ambulance to the hospital while making plans in my head about how certainly he would need care, and maybe we could get a hospital bed in! and we might have to move, etc. As it happened, he was pronounced dead on arrival at the hospital, but I have always remembered those thoughts that if he lived, of course I would have taken care of him. It never occured to me to do otherwise.

But in reality, I would have missed out on an entirely different chapter of my life if he had lived. Since then I remarried, had another child, moved, started a different career...it's really hard to imagine a life different from the one I have now. But I can completely understand the decision that Larissa made. I also completely understand how those choices must feel very difficult to her sometimes.

So sorry for your loss, kayray.

I am sorry for yours too, sumeri.

You hit on it very well. I "know" I would have stayed with him. I remember even thinking about what it would be like to visit him daily if he had to be in long term care. But more than a decade on, well, I also realize how much I would have missed if I had stayed with him while he was not really even any longer him. It is so hard to imagine a different life that the one I have, and a life I am so tremendously grateful for, and a life I likely would never have had if he had lived, but yes, I also understand why Larissa (or the other blogger I mentioned) made the choices they did as well. I never really had the option to make that decision, but I can easily see how I would have if things had been different.

One of my husband's old coworkers had a wife who died recently. However, she had been in a care home for a few years as result of a dehabilitating disease that left her with severe memory losses and in a lot of pain (to the point at the end she was asking for someone to help her end it). He had a girlfriend, who had met his wife. I know he got some weird looks or judgments for it, but it appears his wife in the early stages of her disease had talked about it with him. He continued to visit her often, and remained married to her, and he grieved tremendously when she passed though it had been a long time coming. It is easy for people to make judgments until they are in those shoes or know all the circumstances.

[Austin]

I'm trying out figure out how to put this all into words, and am hoping it isn't too rambly or incoherent.

Ian and Larissa attend a Sovereign Grace MInistries church in PA. SGM has been discussed here before on FJ. The only reason that it is relevant is because them being together for 10 months before his accident is pretty much assured that you will get married. SGM believes in a courtship model, which isn't quite as strict as some of the fundies, but still. All of that to say, beyond ring shopping, the intent to marry was there before the accident because they were in a relationship. People at SGM don't just get into relationships, except to see if they should get married or not.

It does astound me though that they went through with the wedding and everything. It is a sad situation.

I have been following SGM for several years and their abuses and weirdness are well-known. I think this information is extremely relevant in evaluating this particular couple's situation.

[Sumeri]

I am sorry for yours too, sumeri.

You hit on it very well. I "know" I would have stayed with him. I remember even thinking about what it would be like to visit him daily if he had to be in long term care. But more than a decade on, well, I also realize how much I would have missed if I had stayed with him while he was not really even any longer him. It is so hard to imagine a different life that the one I have, and a life I am so tremendously grateful for, and a life I likely would never have had if he had lived, but yes, I also understand why Larissa (or the other blogger I mentioned) made the choices they did as well. I never really had the option to make that decision, but I can easily see how I would have if things had been different.

One of my husband's old coworkers had a wife who died recently. However, she had been in a care home for a few years as result of a dehabilitating disease that left her with severe memory losses and in a lot of pain (to the point at the end she was asking for someone to help her end it). He had a girlfriend, who had met his wife. I know he got some weird looks or judgments for it, but it appears his wife in the early stages of her disease had talked about it with him. He continued to visit her often, and remained married to her, and he grieved tremendously when she passed though it had been a long time coming. It is easy for people to make judgments until they are in those shoes or know all the circumstances.

Well, and another thing that's so difficult is that traumatic brain injuries are so, so unpredictable. My ex-sister-in-law had a TBI from falling off a diving platform in her teens, and was in a coma for several months. It was one of those miracle cases where one day she just snapped out of it, after a half year of being told that she would never ever regain movement, or speech, or any sort of life at all. And she remembers every. single. thing. that the doctors and people who came to see her said while she was "gone" . So I can totally see Larissa thinking that things could improve for Ian, because to a certain degree they already have.

[lilwriter85]

I remember another blog where the husband (or fiance?), a former member of the military I believe, was in a car accident or something similar that left him with a severe brain injury. She was injured in the same collision. I don't think they had been married for very long. They came across as fundie lite or something to me, though I may be recalling incorrectly.

I can't find the blog now, but it was so depressing to read as the wife seemed rather convinced that her husband was going to recover one day. He was very infantile though, the pictures of him before and after were shocking, and he needed help feeding, bathing, eating, and so on. It was pretty clear that he was not going to have the recovery she hoped for, or seemed to believe in, and it was just bizarre to read at times when she would talk about having kids with him or something. It was so sad, as the dynamics had really become one where she was his caretaker.

Anyway, these kind of stories hit home. When I was in my early 20's my boyfriend of five years had a sudden massive cerebral hemorrhage. There was emergency surgery, barbituate induced comas and many days in the ICU. During that time, I wondered what would happen if he did emerge from the coma, as the damage looked to be severe and would have affected his personality, brain function and much of his independence (including mobility, movement). I just was not sure what I would do. He died after a few days in the ICU so I never had to really be faced with that decision then, and as sad as the whole thing was in some ways I am kind of grateful he did pass on and was not left to lead a life in that state, but it is something I have talked about with my husband. I know that if I was in that state I would wish for him to be able to find a new partner who really can communicate and provide him with a happy, fulfilling and emotionally and physically intimate relationship that is not based on care-taking.

The couple that you are talking about are Ben and Katie Rye. Their blog was once linked to Lyndsie and Daniel. I've been reading that blog for over a year now. Ben was active duty military at the time of his accident. I think Katie is fundie lite. I found another blog in which the blogger said that she and Katie were in the same homeschool group and it was mentioned that Katie did missionary work. Katie has several siblings and the youngest one is a teenager. I'm not sure if Ben was raised fundie lite. I think he seems to come from a mainstream Christian background. From several recent postings, it seems Katie is still holding out hope that Ben will recover more. He is still receiving physical and occupational therapy. I feel bad for Katie quite a bit and I give her credit for wanting to stand by Ben. I hate to be cruel, but there are things about Katie that are irritating. She seems to be taking too much advantage of certain military resources and a few months back she attended a retreat that was geared towards military wives whose husbands were injured combat. I'm not trying to trivialize Ben's situation, but I don't think Katie should have attended that retreat. She needs to focus on getting resources for TBI patients who injured due to car accidents.

Here is the link to the blog

katieandbenupdates.blogspot.com/

Katie was awarded a blogger of the month by a military organization and there was one guy who was pissed that she got the honor.

http://www.facebook.com/USAA/posts/1015 ... d=16914206

Ed Ok... Maybe I'm being too harsh, but the woman's husband got into a car accident. There are thousands of women going through much worse. Say for example; KIA surviving wives, and this lady comes along with her husband that hit an unfortunate everyday occurrence, and she gets a reward for posting about how hard its been, while sporting her middle class life being unaffected? Get real. Poor taste. I'm sorry. There are people dealing with much harder situations that deserve REAL awards. Its sad that this lady is top pick.

I'm also sorry about your boyfriend kayray. That must have been tough to deal with. My mom has a first cousin who was a TBI due to car accident. She functions at the level of a child. Her husband divorced a few years after the accident. The family respected his decision. He does keep tabs on my mom's cousin every few months. He calls the nursing home where she lives to get updates.

[lilwriter85]

To sumeri, I'm also sorry about your loss.

[Ex 2x2]

I was not familiar with SGM, so that is very interesting. I also just came across this on the blog. (Steve was Ian's dad)

"Steve was our number one advocate for marriage. He knew that there were many reasons why we would decide to not get married, and he understood them. But he even more strongly could see that the Gospel was bigger than the difficulties that we would face as a married couple. He so longed to see us married. He believed wholeheartedly that God would sustain and bless our marriage.

Missing Steve today and every day and wishing he were here for August 28."

Between SGM and her father in law, sounds like there was A LOT of pressure to marry.

[bionicmlle]

I was not familiar with SGM, so that is very interesting. I also just came across this on the blog. (Steve was Ian's dad)

"Steve was our number one advocate for marriage. He knew that there were many reasons why we would decide to not get married, and he understood them. But he even more strongly could see that the Gospel was bigger than the difficulties that we would face as a married couple. He so longed to see us married. He believed wholeheartedly that God would sustain and bless our marriage.

Missing Steve today and every day and wishing he were here for August 28."

Between SGM and her father in law, sounds like there was A LOT of pressure to marry.

One thing that HAS struck me as odd in this situation is her relationship with her father-in-law which seemed extremely close. Perhaps they just "clicked" but she refers to him in a way that reminds me of a "daddy-daughter" relationship - a familial intimacy that I don't think I would have capacity to have other than with my own dad.

It does seem to up the ante on an obligation to care for Ian.

[Tired]

Why did she marry him? Was it to keep from looking bad?

[ricky_ticky]

Why did she marry him? Was it to keep from looking bad?

Some posters have mentioned the pressure on her to marry from their church and her father-in-law. I don't know that she would have been judged negatively had she backed out of the romantic relationship and the marriage, but she would have had to take those steps for herself and resist the pressure. She probably felt a sense of obligation to him, and asked herself what she would want him to do if the tables were turned.

I think she may have a martyr syndrome, believing in the complete sacrifice of one human life for the benefit of another. I question how emotionally satisfying the marriage can be for her. They seem to be dealing with constant medical issues and the fact that they are not equals in the marriage.

I know of a couple who married after her near-death accident and TBI. They had dated for a few years before the accident. It is a rather twisted relationship, with her believing that no one else would ever want her and him seeing her as both the evidence of what a good guy he is and his meal ticket. They have speaking engagements all over the country where they talk about her accident and the aftermath. Sadly, some of her friends think that her brain injury influenced her decision making in marrying him.

I certainly don't see Larissa as being a mercenary, but I think there are similar aspects about proving your love is real and being a living sacrifice. Who else would marry Ian if Larissa wouldn't?

[aubrietta]

On one hand, I find it beautiful that Larissa has chosen to marry and care for Ian. On the other hand, I find it deeply unsettling the manner in which it is spiritualized and spun to ensure the patriachial gender roles are still in place, in spite of the obvious to everyone in their right mind reality that Larissa is in charge of the relationship. The Wartburg Watch talked about this a little while ago, because it seemed like such a promotional video for Piper's book, and they have been extremely critical of Piper and his patriarchal teachings. Dee of the TWW says this:

“We know that we have made a covenant to each other, just as Christ made to the church,†Larissa says. “The church that he made that covenant with is so imperfect, and sorrowful, and disabled. Just like our marriage. This church, and this marriage, are hemmed in by Jesus and eagerly long for heaven. He is their author and sustainer.â€

Do you see how the editor questions a valid comment? Do you see how Bethany’s comment is now marginalized and her faith subtly called into question? Such tactics are found in spiritually abusive situations in which the idea leaders want everyone to shut up and believe what they are told. Bethany’s question about spiritual leadership is valid. However, these leaders do not want that perspective to be open for discussion. If it is, there is a possibility that some may question the underlying assumptions of male spiritual authority

There is little question in my mind that Ian and Larissa’s marriage is being used by a number of loosely allied groups to push a patriarchal agenda. Their marriage is extremely threatening to the idea that only men can hold spiritual authority or headship. It is obvious to many readers that Larissa is making the decisions and running her family, no matter the serious attempt at spin.

The involvement of Calvinista leaders in this story is worrisome. There is no question that they believe that complementarianism is an “A†issue. The allusion to the Cross to trump any sort of valid questioning demonstrates this. Could it be that there is undue pressure being applied to a young woman who is obviously self-sacrificing and loving? If so, then these groups ought to be ashamed of themselves.

The rest of Dee's post on TWW can be found here: thewartburgwatch.com/2012/06/15/ian-and-larissa-a-complicated-story-of-love-spiritual-authority-and-agendas/

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

This is so much MORE disturbing than Ben & Katie's story. They were not even engaged??? I don't understand how her parents & friends didn't talk some sense into her. Giving up her life, her dreams, children etc for one person?

Shocking. And is he even able to consent to marriage? Very very odd.

[mebeforee]

I know that Steve had a lot to say about marriage, but the impression I got was that after the accident, he didn't actually bring it up again until he was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer. At that point she had already been taking care of Ian for about 2 years, and it sounded like he basically said 'you can either decide not to get married or you can decide to go ahead with it, but it's time for that decision to be made'. Of course all we hear about this will be through the filter of Larissa's writing, and sometimes she portrays it more as an encouragement than others. I'm sure he really wanted them to marry, but I don't think he made it seem to Larissa that it was the only honorable or acceptable choice.

I think Larissa had been hoping to get married through all that, anyway. She voluntarily took care of this man for two years and for a very large part of that he wasn't even able to speak. She sacrificed a great deal for him without marriage being an immediate factor. I also remember there only being one reference to the judge assessing them, and I think it happened after the fact. Wasn't it just a line that said 'the judge has approved our marriage license'? Clarification on this would be good, because I don't remember it being a source of worry or even discussion when it was happening.

I do feel really bad for Larissa. Her situation is so difficult. The number of entries that discuss that she can't wait until they go to heaven, so they can be together the way they used to be... it's heartbreaking. She also once wrote an entry about having a dream that Ian was back to his old self, and how hard it was to wake up from that to face her reality again. Then she talked about how she doesn't understand why God gives her dreams like that. Ah, I just have so much sympathy for her. She's really put herself in a position that will include a lot of suffering.

[Emme]

To everyone who is posting their stories of TBIs and people they've loved and lost due to them, I'm sorry and my heart goes out to you.

My dad had a stroke this past summer. My parents have been married for 25 years. Their bond is amazing. I cannot fathom how hard it must be for Larissa, because I saw how hard it was for my mother, and she's been with my dad for 25 years. It is because my parents know each other inside and out that my mom was able to care for him so well during the stroke. She spent hours just sitting at his side holding his hand. She can read him like a book, and she knows what he needs. He can walk, talk, everything he could do before the stroke (speech was slurred originally, is still a tiny bit), but he can't feel one side of his body (it's kind of asleep and it hurts sometimes and he has no temperature sensation). He couldn't eat for a while (that sucked. it fucking sucked) and had a tube. It SUCKED. It sucked so bad. The way they handled the whole thing though, just astounds me. We really had to pull together as a family to survive this. We have a strong support system. He is doing remarkably well. We are lucky, in a weird twisted way. It could have been SO much worse.

I can't fathom doing this at her age without the years of history that my parents had. I won't snark, I'll just send love.

[MonkeyMomma]

A couple of people have referenced a video about the wedding? Link please? I'm working on my coffee and can't find it. :)

[HeckBound]

All you hear from her is Steven, Steven, Steven. I don't know whether her parents are dead or whatever, but I can't believe someone didn't step up to keep this beautiful bright girl from burying herself before she gave herself a chance to live. If my daughter was endlessly posting on how she couldn't wait to die, I'd be seriously concerned.

[Hane]

My sister has cerebral palsy, and from an outward perspective seems unable to communicate effectively since she does not have the muscle power to hold an "intelligible" conversation. (It is intelligible to her friends and family, but can take a while to understand) I can see someone believing that she would not be able to consent to marriage or any similarly daunting decisions. However, once she is given an Ipad or phone (or any comparable device) it is clear that her disability is strictly physical, and it would be inappropriate for anyone outside of the immediate circle of her loved ones to feel they could judge what she is able to consent to, since she is an adult like you or I.

I have difficulty in situations such as this voicing an opinion one way or another, because things can appear very different from the outside and that's important to remember.

So true. I met a new parishioner in church this morning. She is nearly completely physically disabled (I do not know the causes of her disability), and has caregivers 24/7. It's sometimes difficult for her to make herself understood, because it's very difficult for her to speak loudly enough to be heard--but it's obvious that she's lucid and intelligent.

ETA: After reading this whole thread, if Larissa indeed was pressured into marrying Ian, i think the ones who did so are reprehensible. No one outside such a situation has the right to chime in. One of my friends is living through this horrible experience. After nearly 20 years of marriage, her husband developed an inoperable brain tumor that first changed his personality completely, and then caused a TBI. Because of his physical and cognitive disabiities, she could no longer care for him at home, and had to place him in a nursing facility. (At one point, he would certainly have died if doctors hadn't taken extraordinary measures--which she says should not have been taken.) She visits, and remains married to him, but she now is in a relationship with another man. I was taken aback at first, but now realize that I cannot possibly understand the suffering she must be going through.

[bionicmlle]

Interesting post from Larissa today... Seems they have avoided looking at the commentary on various sites about their video. I'm sorta surprised she is surprised. Glad to hear that their marriage seems a bit more functional than some of us suspected. For her sake, I certainly hope it is.

[RosyDaisy]

A judge had to grant permission for Ian to marry, since he was not deemed to have the capacity to consent to marriage,

Something's up there. She's probably taking advantage of him for some sick reason.