Who are the Fundie Royalty?

[Maggie Mae]

So I've been reading here on and off since FJ was started I think. But I'm still unsure as to what makes someone "royalty". Also, who would ya'll consider royal? The Duggars? The Botkins? Doug Phillips and his creepy creepy band of men? The Bates?

Just would like some clarification. It seems like I'm always discovering new fundies. It's like they regenerate and span, ala video game style.

[Guest Anonymous]

I would say all of those. All the popular, affluent and influential families, that the other fundies try to emulate.

[terranova]

I always imagine the Duggars to be kind of nouveau (sp?) riche. The Johnny come latelys who've hit it big. Kind of like the Beverly Hillbillies. Crass and no manners but you have to pay attention to them because they've got money. Definately not royalty though.

[Miggy]

My definition of Fundy Royalty would be those who run conferences, speak at conferences or produce Christian books and home school materials. Fundy peasants are those who pay hundreds of dollars to attend the conferences and who buy the who home school materials. (Both actions keep the royalty in funds.) You can be promoted from peasant to royalty if you have something to offer the organisation. For example, when we first met the Duggars they were regular fundys; cramped in a small house, terrible clothes, paying to go to conferences (and skimping on a lot of other things to afford them). The show brought them attention and their growing band of follows made them and asset to fundyland. Suddenly they were being invited to speak at conferences instead of paying to attend. This is a promotion to royalty.

Phillips and Botkins are right at the top of the tree. Maxwells pretty high up. I agree with terranova about the Duggars being nouveau rich but I think Dougie Phillips giving Michelle that Mothers of the Year Award was kind of like crowning her into the royal circle. Waller family are suppose to be pretty high up in ATI circles but I don't know enough about them to call that one. Verniers and Turleys seem to be at the top of Vision Forum going on recent photos. I don't think Bateses count as royal. They have spoken at a few ATI conferences but they aren't in the same league as the Duggars. It will be interesting to see if the show changes this.

Interesting looking at the list to note that the royalty are marrying off their sons but not their daughters. I guess it just reflects what happens in the real world where women tend to marry up, leaving upper class women and lower class men the most likely to remain single. (Not always, I know, I did say most likely. Nobody scream at me or get offended please.)

[wendy-sparkles]

I definitely think that the Bates lack the kind of aspirational affluence required to be truly successful fundie royalty. Like, if I were fundie, I don't think I'd particularly be looking up to a family without health insurance, borrowing from their son and such. Their show has the potential to change this, like it did for the Duggars, and they have started entering the speaking circuit (at an ATI conference, iirc), but I think the show would have to do better than it has so far for this to happen.

In regards to the Duggars, the more they head in the Vision Forum direction, the less nouveau riche they seem, I think. A lot of the success of the mega-families comes down to the ability to perform class expectations, which is why the Duggars have to pretend to send their kids to college.

[charizbarb]

I always imagine the Duggars to be kind of nouveau (sp?) riche. The Johnny come latelys who've hit it big. Kind of like the Beverly Hillbillies. Crass and no manners but you have to pay attention to them because they've got money. Definately not royalty though.

IA although they must be the royalty of the ATI lot, relatively speaking at least.

VF wise, the Botkins, Phillipses and Bauchams are who I would consider royalty.

[clibbyjo]

I don't consider the Maxwell's royalty. Just 2 years ago there were frumper wearing and matchy in their outfits. The royalty dress much better and have more fun with their little role playing dramas and movie making. Their stuff is slick to suck in the commoners who think "I can be pretty and have the perfect family like them if I copy them exactly by buying all their stuff." The Maxwwell's are not "hip". The appeal to the more hardcore type homeschoolers. The Botkins and Phillpis are too glamorous for them. I think the Bots and Doug consider themselves the cream of the crop in the "highbrow" fundie circles. Maxwells are more middle class and dour and have their own kind od fans like Rebecca K.. Duggars are definately the trailer trash who won the lottery.

In the homeschool world I know, most people would fit in with the Duggar or Maxwell clans. In 11 years of homeschooling, I have not run across any Phillips or Botkin types.

[patsymae]

Where do the Raiths fit in this hierarchy? They are famous and they are fundie (and I assume QF because of allowing the Bates courtship--don't know much about what they preach outside of their music) but they are famous for a legitimate reason, not just for being fundie, and evil secular humanists think they are good musicians. So are they the cream of the crop or somehow outside it?

[OkToBeTakei]

If this in any way is supposed to be about respect. I bow out. These people make me sick. WHY would there be a hierarchy of 'lack of intelligence.'

I am not a royalist but live in a country with a monarchy. it is fine. It serves it's purpose. I like it in a very nostalgic way..these people though..vomit.

[Markie]

I think the Staddons are high up in the Gothard Branch of royalty. The Duggars, Wallers and Bateses are up there, too.

I don't know the Vison Forum Branch of Royalty as well, but as others have said - Phillips, Botkin, Vernier...

Where do the Mortons, Maxwells, Wissmans and Smiths fit in? Makes me wonder how many "Royal" families out there that just don't blog?

[Deleted05]

I would say anyone who has ever written a book, or hosted a conference that has been advertised on Vision Forum.

[justlurking]

This question has actually been pondered before:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3814

[Seven Severn]

Where would the Serven's fit? Stephen Loomis had to have been acceptable so where does his family fit?

[Maggie Mae]

What about the Jeubs? They have books and speaking engagements. But I'd think of them more along the lines of a d or e list actor, the people you go, oh hey, it's that guy! and then you forget about them until they get arrested and make the news.

[YPestis]

I would consider "fundie royalty" to be those fulfilling the criteria:

1. Comfortable income. This means nice house, disposable income for 'stuff'. The family dress nicely and don't go without.

2. Makes decent money from their many conferences, books, CDs, blog etc

3. Well known within fundie world and have following----to me, fundie royalty must have this in order to qualify as "royalty".

Others have listed names so I will not. I'm conflicted about whether to call the Maxwells royalty. They are probably too isolated to have a real following. For a while, they were quite successful in their touring but it seems their cult-like existence is turning even fundies off. The family also doesn't attempt to emulate an upper class lifestyle like the Botkins. Until recently, they dressed in frumpers. Their song and pony dance include country music performances. I think the VF group are more self-conscious about their "royal" status. They like their tea parties, references to being ladies and gentlemen and who can forget the Botkins' self-inflated resume.

Fundies like the Bates and Duggars are not truly royalty, more like nouveau riche who suddenly came onto so much money that they can't be ignored. They get paraded by fundie royals out of necessity but still cling to manners of the fundie peasants. It's fascinating to watch this world unfold. Only time will tell if the Bates will also travel the trajectory of the Duggars with their new TV show.

[mirele]

Maybe we should rate our fundies like actors/actresses? You know: A-, B-, C-, D-List?

A-List - Well-known even outside fundie circles

I'd put the Duggars and Kirk Cameron in this group. You really want these guys promoting your stuff.

B-List - Well-known within fundie circles

Phillipses, Botkins, others who publish books, videos, sell their stuff at homeschooling conferences, sing at churches. Good at self-promotion and make money within their own circles.

C-List - Most fundies with blogs.

Life in a Shoe, the Munck family as examples.

The Bateses are currently here but based on the success of their show could be vaulted into A-list status

D-List - Fundies who happen to be a joke (or WTF!!!!) to the outside world.

The Pissing Preacher/ZsuZsu

The Jeubs

The Maxwells (because of their oppressive lifestyle, I've seen them criticized on rather conservative--to me--blogs)

[Anxious Girl]

Would the Santorum family count? :think:

[marmalade]

What about the Mortons, Sanderses and especially, the Smiths? I thought the latter ran in some fairly high east coast circles at some point. The quandry here is if they're plummeting down the list because they're self-isolating due to all the intermarrying.

They still show up at VF stuff (Noah Sanders spoke at the Food Fest), so I'm kind of torn as to where to place them.

[slickcat79]

What about the Jeubs? They have books and speaking engagements. But I'd think of them more along the lines of a d or e list actor, the people you go, oh hey, it's that guy! and then you forget about them until they get arrested and make the news.

I think the Jeubs (and the Coghlans) are the ultimate wannabes. Chris wants his family to be famous like the Duggars, but they don't have as many kids (yet), nor the investment/real estate savvy that allowed JB to launch his family's fame. They have very rare speaking engagements because they beg for them, and they even admit themselves that their books have not made them much money. They keep trying to make debate happen, but people are not really buying it. Possibly because Chris sucks at debate. I think the only reason the Jeubs have any exposure at this point is their proximity to Focus on the Family.

[Sydney Fox]

What about the Niednagels and Thomases? They attend Dougie's dress-up events and have blogs. They're also fairly well-off. To me they're a step down from the Botkins and Phillips, but definitely classier than Duggars or Bates, so I'd put them in as nobility, not royals.

[kpmom]

I would define it as anyone who makes their living off of Patriarchal Christianity. I would add, the living would have to be well above poverty level. Not rich necessarily, but comfortable.

[lilith]

I think the Bontragers figure in there somewhere. They aren't well known in the secular world, but their family band tours constantly and they are well connected to both VF and ATI.

[MrsKay]

For my personal classifications, Fundie Royalty have to meet these qualifications:

1. People name-drop about them when possible.

2. They are invited to every conference of importance.

3. If they showed up at a fundie wedding, said fundies would think they'd been raptured.

4. They make money from their fundie status, through books, shows, etc.

Additional signs that you may be a Royal Fundie:

1. People have made spoofs and/or fan fiction about you.

2. You inspired at least one message board.

3. You have a page on Facebook, made by someone you have never met.

4. You have a public following of fan girls/fan boys/leg humpers.

This is by no means an inclusive list, but those are the top ones that I can think of right now.

[terranova]

The Maxwells are kind of like the Puritans who escaped to a new world to wear plain clothes and practice a stricter brand of religion. In that way they don't fit into the royal heirachy at all.

[clibbyjo]

I would define it as anyone who makes their living off of Patriarchal Christianity. I would add, the living would have to be well above poverty level. Not rich necessarily, but comfortable.

Eep, then this would include my fundie sister and she is in no way fundie royalty. They make a very good living selling homeschool supplies,but they do not know the Maxwells(I asked) and I don;t think they know Doug and the gang. (I can't ask about everyone or she may find out my secret hobby) The do travel to shows all over and my sister does sometimes speak and do workshops, but they only hang out with people from their church.