Why witnessing to non-Christians rarely works

[Minerva]

[snip] Add to that, often there's more than one group and they're both screaming that they and they alone have the TRVTH, but the two groups contradict each other. Why bother taking either one seriously? (And they'll say "well, why don't you believe there is some ultimate truth?" well maybe I do think there might be but I sure as hell don't think YOU know what it is!!! :D)

I would pay to see two different evangelical groups try to convert me at once. I'd ask about the discrepancies between their beliefs and get out the popcorn. Just one evangelical? I'll worm my way out of it quickly, thank you very much (not that it happens often around here).

[B5SnowDog]

Exactly, you wouldn't use these tactics for any other topic. Say Broccoli!

OMG I LOVE Broccoli its my life, I eat it 3 times a day. You need to try Broccoli, seriously you don't like Broccoli? Well you just haven't tried *my* version of Broccoli, I promise its different and you will like it!!!

Actually, I've had people say that to me about broccoli, squash, and eggplant. Obnoxious evangelism has spread from religion to other areas.

[Minerva]

Actually, I've had people say that to me about broccoli, squash, and eggplant. Obnoxious evangelism has spread from religion to other areas.

Someone was basically saying that about broccoli on one of Josh's Instagram threads not too long ago...

[B5SnowDog]

Someone was basically saying that about broccoli on one of Josh's Instagram threads not too long ago...

I just can't eat the stuff no matter how it's prepared. Heh, it's like religion - I don't care if you partake but none for me, thanks.

[Deleted07]

This is true! I wonder if its just in some humans nature to want everyone to enjoy what they do? Most of us are good at accepting when others are not interested in something whether it be a movie, food or religion. But there are always those view who want to *force* others like that, which always interests me. All human behavior greatly interests, and confounds, me at times.

[casterly]

Luckily we don't get much proselytizing anymore, at least at home.

We used to get a van full of JWs and their families every other year or so, until one day several years ago, my dad decided to answer the door. He started asking them where they lived and if he could show up on their doorstep to "witness" and preach to them (my family's Catholic, if mostly only nominally).

They never came back after that. :lol:

[B5SnowDog]

This is true! I wonder if its just in some humans nature to want everyone to enjoy what they do? Most of us are good at accepting when others are not interested in something whether it be a movie, food or religion. But there are always those view who want to *force* others like that, which always interests me. All human behavior greatly interests, and confounds, me at times.

It's like they don't get that by being so pushy, they're driving people away.

[Imora]

Because you were raised in a culture with different non-verbal cues and politeness markers and so your "obvious" "I'm not interested" vibes aren't working? (Not that that's intentional of course, I see your argument...)

When I first started university, freshly moved to the US, completely naive and clueless and with no friends, some girls at my school asked me to go to bowling. I liked bowling and was happy that someone talked to me, so I said sure.

Little did I know until AFTER the bowling, it was a Jehovah Witness event! So we had to (they were my ride! another bad move on my part) sit and listen to some sermon about how only 140K people are going to heaven, all the while I'm wondering why they want me to join, then. But logic is apparently not their strong suit.

Anyway, I thought I will never talk to them again, so just did the complete cold shoulder thing. Of course it's not enough, these are missionaries! They kept calling, and calling... no amount of "I don't think so" would work. Finally I did have to find my metaphorical balls and tell them off. For that I guess I'm thankful! :D

But yeah people want to be "nice" and so end up getting annoyed for longer than they probably ought to. I've been there.

Meanwhile on the topic of missionaries generally, my main beef with them when I met them as a kid (regular evangelical Christian missionaries) was that they will happily say that everyone in your town is bound for hell because they don't know Jesus or whatever it is. Never MIND that they're talking badly about upstanding respected people who have done FAR more for people and charity than those outsiders have ever done. Add to that, often there's more than one group and they're both screaming that they and they alone have the TRVTH, but the two groups contradict each other. Why bother taking either one seriously? (And they'll say "well, why don't you believe there is some ultimate truth?" well maybe I do think there might be but I sure as hell don't think YOU know what it is!!! :D)

(I'm still a wimp, but these days if I sense missionaries at the door I just plain don't answer it.)

Then there was the time I was on vacation in Seattle (also still fairly new - still a freshman in college) and was asked if I wanted to take some "personality test." Yep, it was a Scientology hive. I of course flunked the "test" but by then knew what was up and just left.

Hey, I've been tricked into a 'social' event that was really a sermon too! But these were Mormons, I told my work colleague I didn't appreciate her inviting me to a 'unique theater event' that was actually some form of bulk witnessing when I had already told her before I was going to stand by my own beliefs and wasn't interested. Luckily I had my car with me and I bailed.

And I have also been asked to take a 'personality test'.

I don't need to take your test, I have a great personality! :whistle:

[MagicalMuggle]

In the Pentecostal church I was once active in, soul winning was very heavily involved several times per week.

Their version of soul winning consisted going door to door handing our flyers or cards & inviting them to church. If they seemed really interested we would take their name and phone number to keep in touch with them.

The other version of soul winning we did was go to places like Wal-Mart, Alco, the commissary, the PX (military base), Dollar General, etc. We would usually get a shopping cart and put items in it and pretend like we were shopping.

When we would see someone we would casually approach them and strike up a conversation that would eventually lead up to us inviting them to church. (I HATED this. I just wanted to leave people to shop and not bother them). If they were interested we would hand them a card, exchange phone numbers and names and move on to the person.

Then of course it was up to us to actually get these interested folks out to church. I hated hounding them over and over, but the pastor always got on our case about getting them out for a visit (it wasn't all his fault, the head honcho of the organization was constantly on his @ss to get the numbers up in the church). More numbers = more $$$ for the head honcho to buy another car or add more crap to this mansion.

Not all pastors were like this in the org. Many were genuinely concerned about the salvation of another.

Needless to say I don't miss soul winning and being compared to Sister so and so who brought 10 people to church with her that Sunday morning. 8-)

[ilovetchotchkes]

I cannot tell you HOW many people have tried to explain Christianity to me because it "just hasn't been explained right before"

LIke, going to Catholic school from preschool through college, having parents who work for the church, I just wanna scream "look if i was meant to be Christian, IT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED"

I'm seriously beginning to wonder if its like the religious version of amway- or some multi level marketing thing. LIke, you get a fucking toaster for converting a catholic, a microwave for converting a Jew, and a convertible for converting the Dali Lama.

[Renting with Raggles]

You know, I'd be less offended if the pitch weren't so blatantly dishonest. All these stories here of being tricked into attending church events, or the psychological manipulation - it's pretty disgusting when these people are trying to verbally strong arm you into admitting that you're a liar that deserves eternal torment for telling the Gestapo that there are no Jews in the attic. It's the same as the Scientology technique - people actually believe they're going to get their free personality test.

I also understand that the kids who are doing the grunt work of the ministries don't come up with the questions themselves, and get frustrated, which leads naturally to the OMG PERSECUTION!!! BECAUSE YOU WON'T FALL TO YOUR KNEES AND WORSHIP ME AS THE VEHICLE OF YOUR DELIVERENCE! It's the higher ups that designed the pitch, and they are despicable.

I've never had the Cameron/ Comfort questions before, has anyone ever recorded someone just repeatedly asking 'why?' in response to the inanities?

[eeemkaaayy]

Ugh, evangelists. I don't know if it's where I live (Bible Belt) or what, but it seems like everyone tries to convert you. It's so annoying and half the time I know more about what they're talking about than they do. I go to youth group and church just to keep up appearances and it seems all they care about is converting people. Every friggin Sunday we pray for the numbers of the church to grow. And on top of that, pretty much every other week someone invites you to their youth group. Oddly, it seems like every time they do I'm doing something :)

Anyway. I've got the "accept Jesus into your heart!" , "you don't believe because you are anger at god!", and "it hasn't been explained right to you!" many, many times. If I had any desire to believe in god, I would have converted years ago. On top of that, I've never understood the logic behind them. I'm a firm believer in science, so your creationist views and "the only way this earth could have been created is by a god" BS doesn't work. I'll never understand how they expect to convert people with that logic and how they act to people who don't believe what they do. Obviously since I don't believe in abstinence I must be a whore!

Now I'm angry. I should probably go look at pictures of cute puppies to calm down.

[browngrl]

IIRC there was an FJ member who, when faced with an annoying soul winner, handed them a bag of cat poop. THAT is exactly what I would like to hand any one who comes to MY door and wants to win my soul.

Prosletyzing annoys me to no end. Witnessing will not work with me because I do not agree with their god or their religion. I can not even sign on with their golden rule because what they would want done to them is not necessarily what I would want done to me. Their threats of hell mean nothing to me: I don't believe. Their enticement of heaven mean nothing to me - I can't imagine spending an eternity worshipping at the feet of a god who is all powerful but also has such low self esteem he needs constant worship. In short, witnessing to me will not work - at best I might slam the door - at worst I might hand the "witnesser" a bag of cat poop.

[Hane]

When the local Kingdom Hall was in my neighborhood, we'd get door-to-door JW solicitors on a regular basis. Normally, a "Sorry, we're busy" was enough to dissuade them.

Lately, though, I've been getting Italian-language JW literature left in my door (WTF? I have an Italian surname, but so does half this town). The other day, I got a hand-written letter (addressed to my dad, who passed away over three years ago) on notebook paper, in Italian, inviting him to contribute to an initiative promoting the Bible internationally. I've never had the pleasure of actually opening my door to one of these Italian evangelists. I'm wondering where they come from, because my plumber is a devout JW, knows I'm hardly fluent in Italian, and knows I'm just fine with my own church.

A scary incident happened to me in the parking garage at work 20 years ago: I was having a hard time unlocking my cranky old Honda, and one of the garage attendants came up to me to offer help. By that time, I'd managed to get the passenger-side door open. He said, "Do you know where you're going?" I answered, "Well, yeah." And he continued, "Do you know where you're going AFTER YOU DIE?" So I jumped into my car on the passenger side, slammed the door, scooched over to the driver's seat (not easy in bucket seats and with a gearshift in my way), and gunned the motor. He hollered, "JESUS LOVES YOU!" and I hollered, "I KNOW!!!" and peeled out. On my way out, I stopped at the cashier's stall to complain that the guy had scared the crap out of me. He replied, "Well, that's just his religion," and I told him it was frightening and inappropriate and that I was going to tell management.

I couldn't do so right away--this was in the pre-cell-phone days, and I was enroute to my evening job--so the next morning I marched into the office of my boss's boss and told her what had happened. The guy was fired immediately.

Way to sell Jesus--to a frightened woman all by herself in a dark parking garage.

[debrand]

A rule of thumb for potential evangelicals, if you wouldn't like a member of another faith to use certain prostelyzing techinques on you, don't use them on other people!

If you don't want Muslims/Buddhists/Wiccans to trick you into attending one of their religious services, don't try to trick unsuspecting people into attending your faith's services.

Actually, if other faiths tried to use some of the same evangelical techiques that some Christians used then those Christians would be screaming persecution.

[emmiedahl]

I have been evangelized a few times in the past week. I wish they would not get angry when they give me a line straight out of the Jews for Jesus manual and I give them the answer I memorized 1850 evangelizers ago. Like the "why is Elohim plural" argument. I already know exactly where they are going and I am prepared with an answer. More often than not, they get angry when I have an answer, and it is one that somewhat disproves Christianity. So I would like to add to this brilliant list: don't get mad when your evangelizee has a good reason for not sharing your faith. This is not persecution of Christians. Christianity is the default religion. Most non-Christians have considered it because it is all around us and the path of least resistance. We did not become Christian despite this, because we saw something that was illogical. If you don't want to know, then don't ask.

[Minerva]

In the Pentecostal church I was once active in, soul winning was very heavily involved several times per week.

Their version of soul winning consisted going door to door handing our flyers or cards & inviting them to church. If they seemed really interested we would take their name and phone number to keep in touch with them.

The other version of soul winning we did was go to places like Wal-Mart, Alco, the commissary, the PX (military base), Dollar General, etc. We would usually get a shopping cart and put items in it and pretend like we were shopping.

When we would see someone we would casually approach them and strike up a conversation that would eventually lead up to us inviting them to church. (I HATED this. I just wanted to leave people to shop and not bother them). If they were interested we would hand them a card, exchange phone numbers and names and move on to the person.

Then of course it was up to us to actually get these interested folks out to church. I hated hounding them over and over, but the pastor always got on our case about getting them out for a visit (it wasn't all his fault, the head honcho of the organization was constantly on his @ss to get the numbers up in the church). More numbers = more $$$ for the head honcho to buy another car or add more crap to this mansion.

Not all pastors were like this in the org. Many were genuinely concerned about the salvation of another.

Needless to say I don't miss soul winning and being compared to Sister so and so who brought 10 people to church with her that Sunday morning. 8-)

During the brief time in which I was at risk of becoming an evangelical Christian (I never actually considered myself to hold those beliefs, I was just going along with what my new "friends" wanted me to do because I found them fascinating, I am very bad at saying no, and I had just moved and craved religion and didn't know how to seek out a religious community that actually shared my beliefs), I was pressured into...ah what did they call it now..."sharing", that's what they called it and I cringed every time someone said the word. I wormed my way out of every excursion but one, in which we chatted up complete strangers under the guise of "learning about their religious beliefs" only to try to get them to "come to Christ". We weren't as pushy as some of the proselytizers described on this thread, and I think that's because the woman who was organizing all this had the best intentions you can possibly have when you believe you need to personally deliver everyone around you from Hell. If she felt superior as a "[true] Christian", she never let it show. Anyway, I felt like shit after proselytizing, and that opened my eyes as to how little I actually fit into this group.

[Blahblah]

I live in Australia. I worked with a lovely JW girl who was very happy to discuss her faith with me. (i am an atheist by the way. So are my parents.) She said it made her question her own faith and would then take any of my questions that she couldn't answer back to her JW study group for discussion to seek answers to strengthen her beliefs.

I asked her once whether they really expected to get any converts by door knocking. She explained that, for her, the act of door knocking (she called it witnessing) was more so that God would witness her personal commitment to her faith. She was quite ok with the fact that no one ever invited her in for a chat. The act of knocking on the door to display her devotion to strangers was the main point for her.

I am much more polite to JW's after that. I simply say "thank you for sharing your faith. Have a lovely day". I haven't had any of them persist.

[MandyLaLa]

This! When I tell people that I'm Jewish it becomes "Awesome! Jesus was a Jew!" followed by laughter or "Well, you are almost there, then! Let me tell you about Jesus!" It's like they feel that they are going to educate me about Jesus and I will just jump at the chance. More often then not I end up knowing more about the Bible than they do.

Do you ever get people who are like oh ok you're Jewish cool and then one day you mention that you flat out don't believe in Jesus and it's like shocking news to them. The ignorance makes my brain hurt.

[MagicalMuggle]

After reading more posts on here I totally forgot something else.

My husband is Catholic. He's devout in it, knows his stuff real well.

Well some of you may know how eager newly saved born again, sanctified, holy ghost filled Christians are...they are zealous for God and want everyone to feel how they feel. That was me several years ago. :roll:

My husband was content in his walk with God, but after enough begging I got him to come to church with me a few times. I think he went so he could shut me up. I just wanted him to get 'saved' was all.... :roll:

The times he did come, during altar call I would go down but he would remain in the pew, praying silently. The pastor and brethren would come over and ask him 'if you died right now, do you know where you would go?, and 'do you know without a shadow of a doubt you are saved / born again'. He tried to explain salvation from a Catholic stance to them but they weren't having any of that.

My husband hated that most of all. Them doubting that he wasn't a Christian and all because he was Catholic.

This church really was anti Catholic and tore in to the Catholic church pretty well. They also tore in to other denominations. I am trying to remember if they ever claimed they were the 'one true church' or not, as it's been awhile since I've been there, but I wouldn't put it past them.

But I just thought of that as I was washing the dishes.

Needless to say he was glad when I left that church...but then I ended up joining an even more conservative church (Mennonites) but he liked them. They were real, down to earth, non judgmental folks who were just trying to live a humble life for God. They didn't care if he was Catholic or not. They never preached against another church / denomination.

[Hane]

Do you ever get people who are like oh ok you're Jewish cool and then one day you mention that you flat out don't believe in Jesus and it's like shocking news to them. The ignorance makes my brain hurt.

Some years back, my Catholic church had an ecumenical discussion night. Speakers included Lutheran, Baptist, and UU ministers, as well as a rabbi. A group of Bible-clutching Baptists were in the front row. One of them asked the rabbi about the role of Jesus in Judaism. He responded, "Jesus is absolutely irrelevant to Judaism," and shocked the crap out of them.

[pixydust]

Do you ever get people who are like oh ok you're Jewish cool and then one day you mention that you flat out don't believe in Jesus and it's like shocking news to them. The ignorance makes my brain hurt.

Yes!! When my hubby and I were dating and got serious, he told his sister about me and she said "So, she believes in Jesus, right? Jews have Jesus now." When he told her that no, I do not believe in Jesus, she told him that he should let me know that I can believe in Jesus. I guess she was in a Christian mode then (she has been every religion out there!). I've worked with people who didn't seem to understand that Judaism is it's own religion, and not a sect of Christianity.

[MandyLaLa]

Yes

Yes!! When my hubby and I were dating and got serious, he told his sister about me and she said "So, she believes in Jesus, right? Jews have Jesus now." When he told her that no, I do not believe in Jesus, she told him that he should let me know that I can believe in Jesus. I guess she was in a Christian mode then (she has been every religion out there!). I've worked with people who didn't seem to understand that Judaism is it's own religion, and not a sect of Christianity.

It's ridiculous I just roll my eyes now and move on. I've given up trying to explain that me one day waking up and believing in Jesus is as likely as me believing in santa clause. It's also the same reason threatening me like the op said with hell doesn't work.

[emmiedahl]

Yes!! When my hubby and I were dating and got serious, he told his sister about me and she said "So, she believes in Jesus, right? Jews have Jesus now." When he told her that no, I do not believe in Jesus, she told him that he should let me know that I can believe in Jesus. I guess she was in a Christian mode then (she has been every religion out there!). I've worked with people who didn't seem to understand that Judaism is it's own religion, and not a sect of Christianity.

Yes, someone asked on the 19kac facebook page a while back, "Aren't Jews just a type of Christian?"

"Jesus is absolutely irrelevant to Judaism."

Exactly.

[adayinthelife]

I had a best friend when I was a kid whose Mom saw me as a sort of project. I went to church with them and my parents (both atheists but I didn't know that for a long time because we just didn't talk about religion at home) allowed me to go. Her Mom soon divorced her Dad and began dating the minister (they later married). They really wanted me to be baptized. I left when I was still young. I couldn't deal with the cognitive dissonance required by religion.

Later found out the minister either left or was fired from our church. Some googling and I found out there was a scandal at his next church regarding his conduct with teenage girls. I was not surprised.

Edited to add: I remember we used to get a ton of Jehovah's Witnesses in our area. If you weren't there when they knocked, they often left literature. One day I noticed one of these laying on our kitchen table. I can't remember what exactly my Mom had written on it but I do remember she wrote "Jesus would hate what you do." I never asked her about it or why she felt compelled to write on it. It has always stuck with me, though. She did later tell me how she ended up losing her faith when she was a pre-teen. Despite this portrayal I see by some Christians of Atheists as uncaring, selfish, etc. I've never met someone as generous and charitable as her.