Are the Pearls FINALLY feeling some heat?

[hoipolloi]

I've asked this before at FJ but a new diatribe from Debi Pearl posted at NGJ (nogreaterjoy.org/2012/07/24/a-call-to-stand/) makes me wonder & hope that they have encountered a lot more opposition and have lost income due to people refusing to carry their filth.

I hope that someone more talented than I (like Burris or Debrand) will do an exegesis of this shite, but here are some excerpts from her massive whine:

Hitler’s propagandists used one of Satan’s choice tools to pull off the biggest crime toward mankind in the history of the world. They used a lie. They taught that if you tell a lie and keep repeating it enough, people will eventually come to believe it. And when they believe—truly believe—it will turn them into activists who will bring it to pass. It only takes one liar to start the evil stampede. Our first liar was a young lesbian newspaper reporter from the East Coast. She showed up at church one Sunday morning. Our grown children, as well as a few of their friends, took her out to eat afterward and freely answered every question, laughing at her ridiculous suppositions. It turns out it wasn’t funny.

Repeat a lie often enough and someone is bound to pick it up. Some homeschooling lady on the West Coast was arrested for killing her adopted child. It was widely reported that someone thought that lady might have one of our books. It turns out, according to the police report, that the guilty lady didn’t actually have our book, but who needs truth to make sensational news? About that time, the TV reporters drove from New York to my garden to have a chat. After they saw Mike coming on his tractor, they informed me they were TV reporters making a video clip for a homosexual TV personality. Mike sat on the tractor and answered their questions, which, when aired, were mysteriously changed in the footage. Hitler’s propaganda machine suddenly found new life. I would estimate that as many as 9 out of every 10 homeschooling families now believes that lie...Six million Jewish people lost their lives to Hitler’s great lies. Good people helped make it happen because they truly believed the lie. Today homeschoolers are giving away their rights as parents because they have believed a lie....

In other Pearl news, Mike apparently fractured some vertebrae & now needs major surgery (nogreaterjoy.org/2012/07/23/its-time-to-pray-for-mike/).

[Kate]

Well geez, turns out all this beating children with plumbing line stuff is all just a homosexual lie!

Debbie said so so it must be true--it's not like it's been written down by them multiple times and distributed so as to be now out of their ability to make go away, you know (like, say, in MULTIPLE BOOKS and MAGIZINES).

(aka, agree, Debbie Pearl's article totally smacks of desperation, for which I am heartily glad)

[Patsy]

Where's the link to that police report that confirms that there was not a copy in the house? (not that its absence means they weren't using the methods clearly advocated in the book) Where's the link to the 98-99 fake quotes online? If the detractors have to prove their side, the Pearls should be willing to provide supporting documentation for theirs.

("In fact I very seldom out of 100 quotes, I may find one or two that are accurate. Some of them are total complete fabrications." -- Michael Pearl at 8:30ish of their recent webinar)

[luckystone]

Well geez, turns out all this beating children with plumbing line stuff is all just a homosexual lie!

Wtf. I don't get how they link it to homosexuals and Hitler. I don't think these people have normal thought processes...I mean, I never did, not normal normal, but I think some of them have been so warped that they are VERY paranoid and delusional, more than the average "god doing this for us" delusions.

[Trynn]

The Pearls do realize that Hitler was NOT where anti-semiticism(sp) in the 20th century originated, right? I mean, they have studied history enough to know that anti-semiticism was already popular, and that Hitler was just jumping on the bandwagon and making it... MORE popular? Yes Hitler told lies about the Jews, and they were atrocious lies, but they were lies that, at least from what I've read recently, a lot of people already believed.

That said, how is this even a valid comparison to the "persecution" of Debi Pearl?

And, as a Christian, I do not understand what the reporter's sexual orientation has to do with the price of tea in China?

[TudorRose]

I would estimate that as many as 9 out of every 10 homeschooling families now believes that lie.

GOOD

[GeoBQn]

So, NOT abusing your children makes you worse than Hitler?

[MamaJunebug]

I am only a pale, pale acolyte of Burris and debrand, but I'll submit my 0.50 Euro even so.

Debi & Mike repeatedly refer to The Big Lie so effectively used by the national socialists in 1930s Germany - just another evidence of Godwin's Law (Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies[1][2]) is an observation made by Mike Godwin in 1990[2] that has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."[2][3] In other words, Godwin observed that, given enough time, in any online discussion—regardless of topic or scope—someone inevitably makes a comparison to Hitler and the Nazis). Source: Wikipedia

The sweet, sweet irony is that Deb & Mikey have used The Big Lie all along - insisting that children are evil creatures, and that an infant's wails are not of pain nor hunger, but a vile desire for manipulation of the parents.

They continue to use a corollary of The Big Lie by attempting to marginalize any criticism as coming from lesser beings, in this case, homosexuals of the male and female genders. Goebbels (Hitler's minister of propaganda, IIRC) would be proud, were he coaching the Pearls.

Another corollary of The Big Lie is the statistic, with which MIke's hung himself pretty neatly, this time, as hoipolloi pointed out (the statistics being, paraphrased: "98 out of 100 reports are untrue").

Then there is the version of the ad hominem attacks upon those reporting on the death-by-abuse in California: "Our books were never found in the dead girl's family's house."

IOW, the Pearls are saying, "those detectives and lawyers and buzzing vultures failed to produce our books from the family's shelves, therefore any one who claims we were implicated in the girl's death are stupid and ineffective and thus everything they've said is wrong and we are blameless, and we are right." Paraphrased, of course.

Ad hominem attacks, I recently learned, are attacks on the person of the people who are arguing against you, instead of attacks on their arguments. Don't say an old bitch can't learn new tricks, or information. ;)

In summary, you bet the Pearls are feeling the heat! And I can't stand to visit their webpage, but are they saying that Mike's back problem are an attack from Satan, or the just retribution of an angry God? I know how they'd spin it if Anderson Cooper's back needed surgery. So I guess I don't really need to know what they've said, on teh webz.

But I know how I'd interpret the physical woes: as a wake-up call from God to sit still and pray sincerely and humbly for guidance. Will it happen? There are always miracles.

[patsymae]

"1500 children a year died at the hands of their drugged or otherwise non-homeschooling parents"

drugged or otherwise non-homeschooling? Wow. I don't know a lot about the Pearl's other than their crazy child abuse but am so glad someone is cracking down on them.

Like everyone else, I am so, so tired of the trivilalization of Hitler, Nazis and the Holocaust in the name of every stupid issue some nut wants to promote. Although I'm tempted to point out to her that the evil gays also wound up in concentration camps and that aside from the Jehovah's Witnesses, NO Christian church, as a church, refused to get with the program.

[debrand]

The Pearls are so repulsive that I don't think it is necessary to do anything more then post their own words. For years, they and their supporters have tried to claim that they were taken out of context. I've read To Train Up A Child and their quotes are not taken out of context.

In the past, some Pearl liked to defend them by pointing to the little good that the family teaches. For example, the Pearls invented the term 'Tying Heartstrings" which means to include your children in your life and create positive memories. However, the same good advice can be gotten from every child psychologist I've ever read without promoting child abuse.

Notice how they don't even name Anderson Cooper but identify him by his sexuality. It's an attempt to dehumanize him. Years ago, a blogger named Tulip Girl and some other women began writing about the Pearls. The family called their detractors, possessed damsels.

http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/our-ow ... ed-damsels

I worry that if too much pressure is applied to them that the Pearls will go the way of Jim Jones. Because they have young grandchildren, I hope not but I really believe that they might be a cult.

Oh and thank you for linking my name with Burris. She is brillant.

edited because I can not spell

[Witsec7]

Hana Williams trial is slated for October of this year.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/07/us/de ... wanted=all

[Conuly]

In other Pearl news, Mike apparently fractured some vertebrae & now needs major surgery (nogreaterjoy.org/2012/07/23/its-time-to-pray-for-mike/).

I wouldn't normally wish ill on other people, even though they're reprehensible, but I'll make an exception for Michael Pearl. It couldn't've happened to a better guy.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Exactly what part of this is a lie, Debi? The part where your husband demonstrated on camera how he uses the plumbing line and encourages others to do the same? The part where original copies of To Train Up a Child focus almost exclusively on using physical pain to condition very young children into showing complete obedience to authority? The older articles on your website that do the same thing? The way that you and your husband clearly suggest that a child who is not physically disciplined may go to hell? The way that you push the view that normal toddler behavior is a sign of evil that must be driven out with the rod? The way that your husband has an article on your website explaining how he personally instructed a father to repeatedly strike his toddler when the child was having a meltdown during a car trip late at night?

Perhaps the Pearls managed to instill enough fear early on with their children that they did not have a lot of discipline issues, and perhaps there were enough mitigating factors to allow some of the kids to become relatively functional adults (Rebekah wasn't so lucky). This isn't just about their own parenting, though. They wrote, marketed and profited from their book. They gave advice through this book to the general public, without some of the limitations and cautions that appeared later on the website, and encouraged people to strike even babies with plumbing line without having any idea of WHO was reading the book. In the hands of parents who didn't know how to cope with challenging behaviors from children adopted at an older age from another culture, the book's advice was lethal.

Anderson Cooper has a name. It's a name that is well respected for investigative journalism and integrity. If you have proof that the story that the parents had a copy of TTUAC is false, provide it.

[Patsy]

I wouldn't normally wish ill on other people, even though they're reprehensible, but I'll make an exception for Michael Pearl. It couldn't've happened to a better guy.

I don't want my rank to ever change. I hate them. In that recent "webinar", about 10 minutes in Michael Pearl starts talking about how he'd never hit a child, especially not with his big hands. No, he'd just lean his weight into weapons and use the muscles of those big hands to strike them.

Exactly what part of this is a lie, Debi? The part where your husband demonstrated on camera how he uses the plumbing line and encourages others to do the same? The part where original copies of To Train Up a Child focus almost exclusively on using physical pain to condition very young children into showing complete obedience to authority? The older articles on your website that do the same thing? The way that you and your husband clearly suggest that a child who is not physically disciplined may go to hell? The way that you push the view that normal toddler behavior is a sign of evil that must be driven out with the rod? The way that your husband has an article on your website explaining how he personally instructed a father to repeatedly strike his toddler when the child was having a meltdown during a car trip late at night?

Exactly. They never specify the "lies". They find 98 distorted or fabricated quotes, but they can't say where or what they are. I guess that would give attention to evil, wouldn't it? Unless crowing over your children's sin nature day in and day out.

[hoipolloi]

I wouldn't normally wish ill on other people, even though they're reprehensible, but I'll make an exception for Michael Pearl. It couldn't've happened to a better guy.

If he meets his Maker on that operating table, perhaps he will also get something else he deserves: an eternity in hell with others who abuse or promote abuse of children.

[BravaAmica]

Hana Williams trial is slated for October of this year.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/07/us/de ... wanted=all

I am keeping an eye on this trial as her murder occurred in the county of me. There is a lot of polarity in the community over this murder. I hope the parents get the full sentence.

And, in an interesting turn of events, a woman I know [from when I used to lead Beth Moore Bible Studies- don't ask] adopted her children from the same agency as the Williams' used. Her kids do go to school and are out and about- preschool, activities, Sunday school- and they're happy. I also know she took a year off work to bond with her second adopted child- he was two when adopted so she wanted to make sure he bonded to them and they bonded to him. I asked her about follow up from the agency and she said there was none and there should be. She did her own- taking the kids to a ped who specializes in foreign adoptions, consulting a therapist on how to bond and create a smooth transition for the child and the family. It's good to hear an Evangelical/fundie lite adoptive parent delight in their adoptive children.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I am keeping an eye on this trial as her murder occurred in the county of me. There is a lot of polarity in the community over this murder. I hope the parents get the full sentence.

And, in an interesting turn of events, a woman I know [from when I used to lead Beth Moore Bible Studies- don't ask] adopted her children from the same agency as the Williams' used. Her kids do go to school and are out and about- preschool, activities, Sunday school- and they're happy. I also know she took a year off work to bond with her second adopted child- he was two when adopted so she wanted to make sure he bonded to them and they bonded to him. I asked her about follow up from the agency and she said there was none and there should be. She did her own- taking the kids to a ped who specializes in foreign adoptions, consulting a therapist on how to bond and create a smooth transition for the child and the family. It's good to hear an Evangelical/fundie lite adoptive parent delight in their adoptive children.

What kind of "polarity"? Do the parents have supporters? If so, why?

[Burris]

I certainly hope Debi Pearl and her husband are finally feeling the heat. They're responsible for a great deal of damage.

Rather than dealing honestly and soberly with the criticisms they receive, however, Debi Godwins herself in the first paragraph and essentially compares anti-abuse activists with the propagandists that formed the National Socialist media arm.

Hitler’s propagandists used one of Satan’s choice tools to pull off the biggest crime toward mankind in the history of the world. They used a lie.

Oh, but they didn't merely lie. They created their scapegoats against a backdrop of truth – to wit, the unfair treatment Germany was dealt at Versailles in 1919 and the subsequent economic collapse (which hit Germany years before the market crash in 1929). In addition to laying the groundwork for a massive pogrom, Hitler also made decisions that not only lowered unemployment but also restored military power to Germany allegedly for the purpose of self-defence. It wasn't merely Hitler's ability to focus common attention on an unpopular "enemy" that made his consolidation of power so successful. It was also his willingness to play at being a friend of the people – an average guy, merely a corporal in World War One, who not only promised a return to stability but also appeared to be acting on that promise.

The best lies always have some element of truth either in them or as part of the backdrop against which they're told.

Likewise with Michael and Debi Pearl, who rightly claim children require discipline while down-playing - and thus lying about - how dangerous and brutal their own suggested "Child Training" methods are.

(And as an aside, Hitler not only rolled back the rights women gained under Weimar, but also set up “bride schools†to transform young wives into perfect Aryan ladies, making declarations about “the woman's sphere†that would make anti-feminists salivate. Debi Pearl has that belief in common with Hitler – so I guess by her own logic that she's actually some kind of secret Nazi.)

It only takes one liar to start the evil stampede. Our first liar was a young lesbian newspaper reporter from the East Coast. She showed up at church one Sunday morning. Our grown children, as well as a few of their friends, took her out to eat afterward and freely answered every question, laughing at her ridiculous suppositions. It turns out it wasn’t funny.

Yeah, because no one anywhere was alarmed by the Pearls before that gross lesbo came along and wrote about how the Pearls counsel excessive corporal punishment. What an ungrateful bitch she was. The Pearls not only took her out to dinner, but they also laughed at her and everything. Only a stiff-necked fool would perceive that behavior as anything less than gracious hospitality.

As an aside, Debi should be an expert on lying by now. She stood silently by while her husband told an absolute whopper: Here's the article wherein I quoted Michael Pearl as having said he does not advocate corporal punishment/hitting.

We were amazed that she would so blatantly lie, attributing to us the evil done by a child murderer that we had never met and who had NEVER read anything we wrote.

I haven't read the piece in question, so I don't know whether the reporter stuck to the facts or ended up editorializing. One thing I do know, however, is that there is no way in hell Debi Pearl could possibly tell whether Sean Paddock's mother - I assume that's who she means here - had been influenced by To Train Up a Child.

What – did the pervert carpet-licker just randomly pick some poor, innocent corporal punishment enthusiasts from an online list and choose to blame them instead of targeting some other assholes like the Ezzos or John Rosemond? Or perhaps Nameless Lesbian Reporter learned about the Pearls not by following the available evidence in the case but rather through some sort of secret lesbian magic that allowed her to make a connection between a specific child killer and a specific book on child discipline.

But the news never carried that piece of evidence...

A negative (and totally unprovable) assertion – in this case, that the accused had never read the Pearls' book - does not constitute “evidence.â€

Years passed and during that time over 1500 children a year died at the hands of their drugged or otherwise non-homeschooling parents, yet no one mentioned our name.

Oh wow. It's hard to figure out where to begin in pulling this asinine statement apart. First of all, it's not a fucking contest as to which form of bad parenting kills the most kids. And secondly – and yet again – just how the hell would Debi Pearl know whether anyone had connected any of those deaths to the specific brand of corporal punishment advocated in her book. If a parent pleaded guilty to murder and the case never went to trial, there would likely be no public mention made of the book at all. There are other scenarios wherein a child could be injured or killed by parents who are following the Pearls' advice: Not all abuse-related murders – and certainly not all abuse-related maimings - make national headlines.

We never heard from the lesbian reporter again but occasionally read her lies on the lesbian homeschool blog sites.

Even if the authors of these blogs all claimed to be lesbian – something I highly doubt – that would still have no bearing on the truth or falsity of their claims about the potential damage that could be caused by following the advice found in TTUAC.

Not only is Debi Pearl mean, but she 's as dumb (and dangerous) as a sack of hammers.

Some homeschooling lady on the West Coast was arrested for killing her adopted child. It was widely reported that someone thought that lady might have one of our books. It turns out, according to the police report, that the guilty lady didn’t actually have our book...

And yet the name of that book still came up. Perhaps that “lady†had lent her copy to a friend.

Or maybe another magical lesbian simply pulled the Pearls' names out of thin air and attributed the death to them because it was caused by "training" methods that matched very well the ones advocated in TTUAC.

Apparently the world is just full of coincidences that work against the Pearls. Must be Satan.

About that time, the TV reporters drove from New York to my garden to have a chat. After they saw Mike coming on his tractor, they informed me they were TV reporters making a video clip for a homosexual TV personality.

Holy shit – they really DO believe in some sort of magical gay conspiracy. So far, all of the detractors about whom Debi has spoken are homosexuals.

Hitler’s propaganda machine suddenly found new life.

I don't even...God, but she's an idiot. Name-calling is really the only sane response to a comment this stupid. Trying to argue against such rhetoric in earnest would probably cause Debi Pearl to tar her critic as a homosocialist.

Christians will come to believe it and militantly take up the offense.

Well, let's see: Debi is still alive, free, and churning out new garbage for her site. I would say she hasn't been attacked “militantly†and certainly not in any way that would evoke comparisons to the Nazi holocaust.

I would estimate that as many as 9 out of every 10 homeschooling families now believes that lie.

Since it's not actually a lie, here's to hoping one day ten out of ten homeschooling families choose to dismiss the Pearls as cruel idiots.

Yesterday a doctor’s wife was visiting, and she said that fellow Christians angrily approached her for being friends of the Pearls. “That’s just it,†she tells them, “I know them, I know their kids and grandkids, I know thousands of people who have used their literature to help their children . . . including you, and you are telling ME what you heard Anderson Cooper say is the truth? I think you’re missing something here!â€

Well, if some anonymous doctor's wife said it, then surely it must be true. (Oh, and what a clumsy appeal to authority that was. Obviously, by virtue of her being married to a doctor of some sort, this woman has enough insight into child development to determine if the Pearls' methods are actually super-wonderful.)

And besides that, how could anyone look at Rebekah Pearl Anast's life and call that successful?

Six million Jewish people lost their lives to Hitler’s great lies. Good people helped make it happen because they truly believed the lie. Today homeschoolers are giving away their rights as parents because they have believed a lie. Even misguided homeschool leaders are propagating lies in their writings. Satan’s end is to steal the hearts of your children, and his lies are working.

That was not only a disgusting display of unhinged histrionics, and well-seasoned by an ego-driven persecution complex, but it's also so awfully stupid – so bottom-of-the-barrel – that I can only assume Pearl can't find any better argument by which to defend her past writings. In other words, she's indefensible even to herself.

As for the rest of that bilge, I'm not reading it. The Pearls have blood on their hands. Hopefully their current writings and activities will lead to the penury they so richly deserve.

[BravaAmica]

What kind of "polarity"? Do the parents have supporters? If so, why?

Yes, the parents have supporters- mainly their old church and people that think it's okay to discipline children and that Hana wouldn't behave. Their church bailed them out and is paying their legal fees.

Here are some local articles:

http://www.goskagit.com/news/local_news ... 3ce6c.html

http://www.goskagit.com/news/carri-will ... 963f4.html

http://www.goskagit.com/news/crime_blog ... 7d8a7.html

[chaotic life]

Sadly the woman puts so LITTLE stock into the life of children that she has confused Hanna and Lydia. The Schatz family not only had copies of NGJ in their home, but there was personal correspondence between Michael and the Schatz parents found on the computers. It wasn't brought up because there was no point in bringing it to trial. Thus far no DA has been courageous enough to charge the Pearls as accomplishes.

She also completely forgets that not only are Lydia and Hanna to different children who died by the teachers of her vicious ministry but the are children #2 and #3 conclusively proven to be tied to their methods. The FIRST child whose life was taken under their instructions was called Sean Paddock. Surely Debi remembers Sean. Her husband was required to TESTIFY in that trial. Yes, she can argue that Sean's adoptive mother went off the deep end and went beyond what they recommend. I would counter that her methods will CAUSE an unattached mother to do exactly that.

However, Debi CANNOT wiggle her way out of culpability for Lydia's death. Lydia died by the break down of her tissue which overwhelmed her kidneys not from a single overboard beating but from the systemic, precise application of their discipline techniques.

Certainly, there has been some argument that Hanna's adoptive mother was not precisely following NGJ, though she DID have their materials in her house AND their recommended implemens for beating children. The evidence connecting them to Hanna might be curcimstantial, but the evidence that connects them to Lydia is horrifying and directly correlated to her death and the near deaths of two other children in that home. In fact, the Schatz case is frightening because THREE children, only two of them adopted, nearly died by precise and strict adherence to exactly what Debi and Michael Pearl advocate for discipline techniques, proving that their methods and their methods ALONE will kill a child. All it takes is a particularily stubborn child and a persistent parent who doesn't stop when the child remains stubborn, just like Lydia's parents did to her.

Michael and Debi Pearl belong in PRISON. I feel so compassion for her, nor concern that she is being persecuted. She rakes in about $3MILLION a year, at least last time I pulled their financials when I was doing a research paper after the Schatz case. They bring in an INSANE amount of funds from their "ministry" and untold numbers of children are destroyed. Three children have been absolutely connected to her so-called ministry and lost their very lives for her discipline measures. She's a murderer and so is her husband.

[TXDuck]

The Pearls fail to realize Anderson Cooper has never been caught in a lie and they have, repeatedly. And they seemed perfectly ok with his being gay when (they thought) he suited their purpose. Now it's an issue for them? Uh-huh...

[longskirtlotsakids]

I

In other Pearl news, Mike apparently fractured some vertebrae & now needs major surgery (nogreaterjoy.org/2012/07/23/its-time-to-pray-for-mike/).

Why don't they just chew up some plaintain leaf and put it on his back? That kind of 'treatment' is good enough for the children and wimminfolk...

[Kitty]

The Pearls are so repulsive that I don't think it is necessary to do anything more then post their own words. For years, they and their supporters have tried to claim that they were taken out of context. I've read To Train Up A Child and their quotes are not taken out of context.

In the past, some Pearl liked to defend them by pointing to the little good that the family teaches. For example, the Pearls invented the term 'Tying Heartstrings" which means to include your children in your life and create positive memories. However, the same good advice can be gotten from every child psychologist I've ever read without promoting child abuse.

Notice how they don't even name Anderson Cooper but identify him by his sexuality. It's an attempt to dehumanize him. Years ago, a blogger named Tulip Girl and some other women began writing about the Pearls. The family called their detractors, possessed damsels.

http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/our-ow ... ed-damsels

I worry that if too much pressure is applied to them that the Pearls will go the way of Jim Jones. Because they have young grandchildren, I hope not but I really believe that they might be a cult.

Oh and thank you for linking my name with Burris. She is brillant.

edited because I can not spell

Except that anyone who knows anything about domestic abuse would know that "tying heartstrings" would know that it's more abusive bullshit. Abusers aren't all evil all the time, and this is why we even have the term "Stockholm Syndrome." Abuse victims go through so much of a mindfuck that not only do they believe they deserve to be beaten, they also take any positive experience with their abusers as genuine kindness or love.

[rollmeover]

I'm very happy to give up my "right" to beat, manipulate and emotionally abuse my home schooled kids.

[dorothybaez]

I'm very happy to give up my "right" to beat, manipulate and emotionally abuse my home schooled kids.

THIS!

You don't have to work so damn hard to brainwash, er, "tie your children's heartstrings" if you're not beating the crap out of them.

Edited because my phone hates me.