Arndt Man Boys & Mary-Elizabeth living out their own unique stories

[Suz8710]

Honestly, if what we're getting about the family is mainly through "Dad's Diary"(none of the boys appear to have their own blog and barely post to the site), then isn't it possible at least one of the boys has moved out or is dating someone? I originally thought to put that none of the boys post to the FamTeam site (for a long time all the posts appeared to be by "Dad") but just checked now and amazingly there are some brief ones posted more recently by various Arndts. 

I can see Papa Arndt omitting certain information entirely from Dad's Diary (like a move out or other change in one of the boys).

[usedbicycle]

On 5/11/2016 at 4:59 AM, MatthewDuggar said:

 

I wonder how they react when a same-sex couple inquires about their services.  If I had more guts and less conscience , I'd text them and find out.  (The Knot media kit features photos of same-sex weddings)

 

I guess their post on FamTeam today answers that question. It's a dumb article titled "Phoenix to Artists: Draw What We Want Or Else" boohoo-ing over a calligraphy company being told they can't discriminate against same-sex customers who want wedding invitations.

Of course that's not how it's worded. Instead, "the government is forcing artists to create art and telling artists what to say in freedom-loving America". 

[katilac]

20 hours ago, Suz8710 said:

 

I can see Papa Arndt omitting certain information entirely from Dad's Diary (like a move out or other change in one of the boys).

I don't think they would omit news of own of the boys moving out or dating, because I think they know it would be seen as a huge positive. 

[IReallyAmHopewell]

On 5/6/2016 at 4:26 PM, ScreamingIzzy said:

I watched all the Arndt videos on YouTube. I have a soft spot for the manboys. They are capable, friendly, fun-loving, athletic guys. They should be out, living life on their own terms.

But then I wonder: what if the life they have is the life they want?

This.  But I also wonder if there isn't something else there. Like a common family bank account so they have no access to money. Or they have a driver's license but aren't allowed to carry it unless it is for work. Something that would keep them there. I think, more likely, its the only life they know. The parents may expect the "boys" to pay cash for a house, then up it to having a few years salary saved, then up it to having retirement handled and THEN, maybe THEN they'll consider starting to look for a spouse. With only one daughter though--you know Lizzie-Wizzie is stuck in Penguin land for the rest of her life to care for Mommy & Daddy and any brothers left at home (which will be all of them).

[Snarfblatt]

I have to admit that I am really curious about what will happen with Mary-Elizabeth. I wonder if she is going to be the one to leave because she's the only girl. 

[peachykeen]

It is incredibly sad that all these adult children are still at home. We all crave human contact at one point or another. To basically stunt your children's future and deny them the opportunity to meet a partner and experience love is its own form of abuse. Something keeps them all there, what that something is I have no idea but it makes me uncomfortable. As others have said, a couple of kids still at home is no biggie, but all of them! Living life is full of good and bad experiences, I wouldn't want to deny my children good experiences because of the possibility of the bad experiences. We can't literally control every aspect of our lives, I guess that's what the Arndt's are trying to do. It is all just really strange, something I can't quite put my finger on.

[LadyCrow1313]

8 hours ago, peachykeen said:

It is incredibly sad that all these adult children are still at home. We all crave human contact at one point or another. To basically stunt your children's future and deny them the opportunity to meet a partner and experience love is its own form of abuse. Something keeps them all there, what that something is I have no idea but it makes me uncomfortable. As others have said, a couple of kids still at home is no biggie, but all of them! Living life is full of good and bad experiences, I wouldn't want to deny my children good experiences because of the possibility of the bad experiences. We can't literally control every aspect of our lives, I guess that's what the Arndt's are trying to do. It is all just really strange, something I can't quite put my finger on.

This. Don't they (not just the Arndt's, but all other Fundie families) realize the long term effects of stunting their children's growth? Or are they that selfish & short-sighted that they don't realize what they're doing (or most likely, are super arrogant & simply don't care about what they're doing to their kids)?

[nokidsmom]

12 hours ago, peachykeen said:

It is incredibly sad that all these adult children are still at home. We all crave human contact at one point or another. To basically stunt your children's future and deny them the opportunity to meet a partner and experience love is its own form of abuse. Something keeps them all there, what that something is I have no idea but it makes me uncomfortable. As others have said, a couple of kids still at home is no biggie, but all of them! Living life is full of good and bad experiences, I wouldn't want to deny my children good experiences because of the possibility of the bad experiences. We can't literally control every aspect of our lives, I guess that's what the Arndt's are trying to do. It is all just really strange, something I can't quite put my finger on.

 

3 hours ago, LadyCrow1313 said:

This. Don't they (not just the Arndt's, but all other Fundie families) realize the long term effects of stunting their children's growth? Or are they that selfish & short-sighted that they don't realize what they're doing (or most likely, are super arrogant & simply don't care about what they're doing to their kids)?

@peachykeen very well said.  I don't get that out of 14 kids, that none of them have craved other contact, especially a romantic relationship to the point that they just decide to up and go for it.    Aside from the frustration, it's just got to be a very bleak existence.  Don't these adult children, especially the older ones, feel like something is missing?   Can all of them have the same vision for their life and that's living safe at home in the service of Mom and Dad?  Because that's what all of them are doing and I don't understannd that there's at least one or two who are not on board with this.

@LadyCrow1313 Agreed, we see this over and over with fundie families.  The parents limit their children in so many ways: education, life experience, work experience, who they can court/marry, and yet expect that their children will progress in the world as if these limitations , which they put on them, don't exist.  I think most fundie parents are so convinced they are doing the right thing by their kids that many won't realize they are doing harm even in the face of criticism, the Duggars being a good example of this.  Steve Maxwell is another.  The parents rationalize their own selfishness, arrogance, short-sightedness or whatever else is driving their choices regarding their children as being the "right thing".   Add God or Jebus to the mix, they are really convinced.

It's hard to know what exactly is going on with the Arndt household especially considering the older manboys do have jobs and travel but there's got to be some cultlike family dynamics going on that keeps them so tied to the homestead.   I grew up with parents who did not, and I mean did not, want their children to leave home, they took it very hard never mind they helped put me through college, helped my sisters start college, all of us worked from late teens.  Yet when each  of us left home (which happened at various points) they found it very difficult it was breaking up the family in their minds, perceived loss of control and we might have bad things happen to us. They became particularly dependent on my sisters supporting the household but they were also emotionally dependent because they had no friends or social activities outside of church.  In fact, their lives were family (immediate, extended family become more marginalized over time) and church.   There's a lot of similarities to the Arndts and I suspect something very similar what went on in my FOO is going on with them but on a more extreme level.  It has to be in order to work on 14 kids.  My parents only had three and I bolted the family home shortly after college.    My two sisters  stayed much longer than I did by 10-14 years had a much harder time because they were in the enmeshed cultlike family environment for much longer.  Which is why I think the longer those manboys stay the harder it's going to be for them to leave and even if they do, they are going to prioritize Rick and Cathy over their own family because they have programmed to do so.

Don't want to derail but I really do see some disturbing similarities and I strongly believe that Rick and Cathy have instilled in their children that remaining "safe at home" is the only right choice not just for the individual manboy but it serves their needs, both emotional and material, as well. 

[sockiemom]

Could the older man-boys just have private (secret) lives? If any of the older ones were gay, that would lend itself to leading a secret life. In the religious circles they run in people could resort to being part of an "underground" culture.

And maybe they are just indoctrinated to keep their personal business secret now?

Are the man-boys well-known enough that exposing one would be a thing? Would Mama and Papa Arndt even access a source that might talk about this "news" and attribute it to anything more than malicious gossip? 

Are they well known enough that one going out with a girl would be noticed and talked about?

Maybe they are such nice guys that people just respect their need to shelter their parents?

It would still be odd, but less odd than none of them having any urges.

 

 

[nokidsmom]

11 minutes ago, sockiemom said:

Could the older man-boys just have private (secret) lives? If any of the older ones were gay, that would lend itself to leading a secret life. In the religious circles they run in people could resort to being part of an "underground" culture.

And maybe they are just indoctrinated to keep their personal business secret now?

Are the man-boys well-known enough that exposing one would be a thing? Would Mama and Papa Arndt even access a source that might talk about this "news" and attribute it to anything more than malicious gossip? 

Are they well known enough that one going out with a girl would be noticed and talked about?

Maybe they are such nice guys that people just respect their need to shelter their parents?

It would still be odd, but less odd than none of them having any urges.

 

 

I would like to hope that some of these manboys have their secret lives that they keep private from Rick and Cathy.  Agree it would be less odd.   At least they might have some semblance of a normal adult life and it might be the better thing to keep Rick and Cathy believing their "safe at home" fantasy rather than shattering it.   They are adults and as such are entitled to having a private life, even while under their parents roof.  My sisters, in my post above, managed to do exactly this, BTW.  My folks thought that so long they were under their roof (even into their 30's) they could keep them innocent forever....little did they know.  

My only reservation with the "secret life" possibility is that eventually one tires of the secrets and will want to come out in the open or make a mistake and it's all out.  With the number of young adult males in the household, it seems very likely either would have happened by now.

Then again, Rick only shows what he wants to show.  He controls what is out there so there's the possibility that there's more to the manboys' lives than what is portrayed.   Still having your grown adult children talk like kids, about stuffed animals, being part of the greatest family in the world, waiting for the Big Sky Daddy to drop a wife on their doorstep without any effort on their parts, well, Rick hasn't prevented that weirdness from coming out.  

Strange indeed.

[Chicken bones]

From the small amounts Rick posts, it sounds like the manboys' free time is fairly regimented with lots of exercise,  family prayer circles and discussions, rides with dad to listen to Rick ramble on... but seriously, these seem to be bright young men. Didn't one of them want higher education? Granted, they seem to be doing well in their fields/interests but still.  And what the heck will Wizzy do? Will they allow her to work outside the home?

[nausicaa]

They seem to have fairly open internet access, and so they definitely have access to email, Facebook, and various forums in terms of contacting outsiders.

There is a community forum in their area that had a thread making fun of their charity softball tournament and a poster who is a rabid defender of the tournament and the Arndts enters the discussion. We've long suspected it's an Arndt. The whole thing is a bit cringe inducing as other posters begin to wonder what's up with all these virginal sons. 

I don't think they could randomly go on a date one night without some family members poking their noses into it, but I definitely think they could have a secret online relationship. And if two or three brothers decide to go in cahoots with each other and give each other alibis, they could probably go on some physical dates. 

[nokidsmom]

Yeah, it does seem that life in the Arndt household is all around regimented, free time still revolves around doing things together.  Gah!   That much togetherness would drive me batty.

They do seem bright but I guess that college for any of them wasn't going to happen being that Rick and Cathy pulled them out of grandparent-funded private school to educate at home.  Seems that the kids have been OK with being kept at home for education so college probably never entered their minds.  Fortunately the work they are in (photography, court reporting) doesn't require a college degree.    And they are handy around house, no doubt another reason they are kept at home.  They do the work while Rick plays with his eternal film project.

Not sure about Wizzy.   She might be the one to get out, if my feeling about Cathy being more possessive about her sons is correct.   But if not, Wizzy is probably doomed to take care of the family home along with her brothers indefinitely.  And you can bet she will become her parents' caretaker in their old age, though both Rick and Cathy look good and healthy for their age so that's probably a long time off..

Some of the older manboys at this point are probably never going to leave.  They are too entrenched in the family borg.   I have some hope for the younger ones including Wizzy.  Maybe they will see how their older siblings hopes' for a family of their own have not panned out and realize what the problem is.  

[JenniferJuniper]

As the manboys are resigned to their fates as bachelor boys, I am resigned to the fact that the mystery of the Arndts will never be solved.

But I am a little concerned.  Dad hasn't updated his diary in 20 days.   I know he and Cathy went to Williamsburg for like the four hundredth time but they should be back by now and usually Rick updates when they travel.   I know they aren't all lying dead in the house à la Heaven's Gate because there have been a few scattered posts.  

Has something happened to make him less eager to report every last blessed detail of the last 20 days?  Did one of the 30-somethings get his collar off and make it past the invisible fence?  Has someone found a girl?  A boy?  Enrolled in community college without permission?  Did the shortstop quit the team?  And what about Naomi?   (random nod to The Electric Company)

Come back, Rick.  We need to know whether everyone is still Safe At Home.

[Snarfblatt]

Oh I just had a random thought. Perhaps if one of the Man Boys brings home a bride (I know I know) then she will be expected to live in the Arndt house with Wizzy, the other Man Boys and Cathy and Rick. Maybe they have been on dates and that is why none of the dates have gone anywhere. 

[anachronistic]

They are living their own unique stories if you change the definition of "living their own unique" stories to "living their parents batshit brainwashed" stories.

[MatthewDuggar]

On 5/27/2016 at 8:45 PM, JenniferJuniper said:

 

But I am a little concerned.  Dad hasn't updated his diary in 20 days.  

Come back, Rick.  We need to know whether everyone is still Safe At Home.

He finally broke his silence, with not explanation other than:

When time allows, I will begin to transfer the last 17 or so daily entries into theDad’s Diary section!

Maybe we can figure something out once the entries have been posted....

[Snarfblatt]

Maybe something exciting has actually happened. What? A girl can dream. 

[OnceUponATime]

Maybe Vine Valley has been finished!

[JenniferJuniper]

26 minutes ago, Snarfblatt said:

Maybe something exciting has actually happened. What? A girl can dream. 

 

20 minutes ago, OnceUponATime said:

Maybe Vine Valley has been finished!

I don't think the first is likely and the second isn't possible.  Something must have prevented him from uploading as he's promising he will get all the entries posted soon.  We'll get all the mundane details of what happened with that calamity I'm sure.

He and Cathy went to a wedding, probably on Cathy's side, yesterday afternoon bringing only the 13 year old.  Everyone else - all 13 of them - were out working, photographing four weddings.  So it sounds like that business has really taken off.  How sweet for Rick.  He hasn't worked in years and just lets his wife and kids support him while he spends his days in his little fantasy bubble.

 

[gustava]

7 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

How sweet for Rick.  He hasn't worked in years and just lets his wife and kids support him while he spends his days in his little fantasy bubble.

When he did have a paying job, what did he do?  Anyone know?

[JenniferJuniper]

2 hours ago, gustava said:

When he did have a paying job, what did he do?  Anyone know?

He was a court reporter.  The older sons started training as soon as they were about 20 (the oldest is 36 this year).   He stopped working a number of years ago.  He just turned 60.

[mallallory]

The Arndts fascinate me.  I remember a picture from a year or more ago where they were out having frozen yogurt with a group of friends that included young women.  I remember hoping that a dating announcement might follow, but obviously there has been no such luck. 

I agree there has to be some sort of brainwashing going on to keep them all at home.  There are 7 kids in my family, my parents have 3 marriages between them. My older siblings have been giving the 27 year old 'baby' of the family shit for still living at home while she finishes her teaching degree and credential for about 3 years now.  The rest of us moved out in the 18-22 years old range.  My husband has already talked about children being allowed to stay at home past high school only if they are in college.  My brother in law has already kicked my nephew out of his bedroom, but not out of the house; he just graduated high school this week.  I don't entirely agree with my husband, and certainly don't agree with my sister's husband, but I feel like those are more healthy attitudes that include an expectation of self-improvement and growth, than does keeping the kids home for-ev-er. 

[MarblesMom]

I was perusing an online garage sale page, saw these, and thought "WOW the Arndts would love these!" I am sure there are never enough penguins safe at home.

[nokidsmom]

On 5/29/2016 at 8:12 PM, mallallory said:

The Arndts fascinate me.  I remember a picture from a year or more ago where they were out having frozen yogurt with a group of friends that included young women.  I remember hoping that a dating announcement might follow, but obviously there has been no such luck. 

I agree there has to be some sort of brainwashing going on to keep them all at home.  There are 7 kids in my family, my parents have 3 marriages between them. My older siblings have been giving the 27 year old 'baby' of the family shit for still living at home while she finishes her teaching degree and credential for about 3 years now.  The rest of us moved out in the 18-22 years old range.  My husband has already talked about children being allowed to stay at home past high school only if they are in college.  My brother in law has already kicked my nephew out of his bedroom, but not out of the house; he just graduated high school this week.  I don't entirely agree with my husband, and certainly don't agree with my sister's husband, but I feel like those are more healthy attitudes that include an expectation of self-improvement and growth, than does keeping the kids home for-ev-er. 

While I personally cringed whenever I heard a parent say that once their kids turn 18, they are out of the house, I also think that parents holding on to their adult children and keeping them from leaving home and forging their own lives is the much more unhealthy option.   I get that many young adults remain at home because of higher costs of living,  limited job opportunities, student loans, etc. and there's nothing wrong with that.   But when it's parents who actively seek to keep adult children at home, by limiting education, work opportunities, guilt, fear, obligation, or whatever else, there's something very wrong.