The Botkin Conference 2012

[LucySnowe]

I wonder who they count as creating healthy role models for girls, besides themselves.

Seems to be the Bible or nothing, although as erudite FJers repeatedly point out, they tend to interpret those incorrectly.

[kb2]

That's quite a downmarket conference for the Botkins. I'm used to seeing them at Vision Forum conferences with higher production values and larger audiences. They haven't done any VF conferences in a long time, though, have they? I wonder whether there was a falling-out with Doug. It wouldn't be unusual. Very controlling alpha-male types like Doug and GB often have trouble seeing eye to eye.

Back when Knight was around, he said this:

...[The Botkin sisters] injure their public persona by being very aloof and guarded, as though their family has some great treasure to conceal. Though it was never said, I've picked up the feeling that this caused a little rift between Geoff and Doug. Not a fight, not even an argument, just a nervous tension that left Geoff feeling like he was playing second fiddle.

You may be on to something.

The Botkins are useful to the movement as women to emulate, they were prizes to parade around as ideal SAHDs. But if they stop being useful--because their lives start to look unhappy because they are waiting so long to get married--then they have a long way to fall. As the favored daughters of the movement, I'm sure there's a lot of jealousy directed towards them. At the same time, others will be disappointed in them for failing at making the SAHD movement (and their own lives) look like a good idea. So they'll get a double backlash from people who want them to fail so they can take their place in the royalty and from people who don't want them to fail because they think it reflects badly on everyone if they do.

It's also interesting that they commented on turning down suitors when the rumor mill says that they're doing the same thing (from Knight again):

Geoff has said repeatedly that the girls have had a lot of interested suitors, but that they weren't interested in most of them....For one thing, they are like the trophy catches of the entire Vision Forum world. Most young guys know they don't have a shot, but try for it anyway...The problem is not Geoff. It's the girls. They have built up such an aloof attitude of their own value as wives that they turn their nose at many of the guys who come around...But Geoff has told the girls that if they don't have a 'special high regard' for someone, that it's probably not a good match.

I know plenty of people who just haven't found the right person by their late 20s. If the Botkins are really trying to find someone they really like instead of making a political arrangement, it's entirely possible they just haven't found anyone they particularly like yet. I don't think it's a sign of snobbery that they didn't find a bunch of suck-ups, or even a couple of close family friends, to be soulmate material, it's perfectly normal, human feelings. But if Knight's interpretation is held by others, their inaction in the marriage department isn't being seen as an acceptable choice by others in their community. The movement is not a nice one--the girls are loved and hated for being "trophy catches."

[GenerationCedarchip]

Back when Knight was around, he said this:

You may be on to something.

The Botkins are useful to the movement as women to emulate, they were prizes to parade around as ideal SAHDs. But if they stop being useful--because their lives start to look unhappy because they are waiting so long to get married--then they have a long way to fall. As the favored daughters of the movement, I'm sure there's a lot of jealousy directed towards them. At the same time, others will be disappointed in them for failing at making the SAHD movement (and their own lives) look like a good idea. So they'll get a double backlash from people who want them to fail so they can take their place in the royalty and from people who don't want them to fail because they think it reflects badly on everyone if they do.

It's also interesting that they commented on turning down suitors when the rumor mill says that they're doing the same thing (from Knight again):

I know plenty of people who just haven't found the right person by their late 20s. If the Botkins are really trying to find someone they really like instead of making a political arrangement, it's entirely possible they just haven't found anyone they particularly like yet. I don't think it's a sign of snobbery that they didn't find a bunch of suck-ups, or even a couple of close family friends, to be soulmate material, it's perfectly normal, human feelings. But if Knight's interpretation is held by others, their inaction in the marriage department isn't being seen as an acceptable choice by others in their community. The movement is not a nice one--the girls are loved and hated for being "trophy catches."

I think this is very true. In a way, the Botkins are in an impossible position. AS & E definitely seem to have had that "trophy" status much more so than most other SAHDs. However, even if she wasn't out speaking at all the conferences, Meredith Hammer's story is really the one that seems to get a lot of attention now in fundie circles. Courtship pressure has been crazy for years from what I hear from family/old church acquaintances, and I can see where the pressure to equal or top the "SAHD marries Rhodes Scholar" story is probably there for the Botkins. I'm guessing Geoff's multigenerational plan doesn't allow for very modest matches.

And even without Meredith's story being out there, I can see where the two women who have been touted as the main faces of the movement need to make matches that can be held up as proof in favor of their lifestyle. I can't imagine the psychological pressure of living under Geoff's thumb as they seem to do.

[Marian the Librarian]

Funny you should ask, MJB! They've obliged with a new blog post. The first line:

Isle. The SOTDRT strikes yet again. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I rest my case.

Well, hush my mouth - just checked the Botkinettes' blog, and lo and behold, they've corrected the spelling of "aisle." Looks like they read teh ebil FJ! :lol:

[Sweetpea1]

I hope they read here. We need a half way house for the Botkins, Sara Maxwell, and the Duggar girls.

[LucySnowe]

They're still claiming a teenaged girl living at home is a freeloader ffs.

Turns out there is an email address - damsels (AT) visionarydaughters (DOT) com. I'm SO tempted.

[gustava]

I hope they read here. We need a half way house for the Botkins, Sara Maxwell, and the Duggar girls.

That is hilarious. Better yet, a reality show. Envision the Botkinettes and the J'slaves styling Sarah's hair. And showing her ...makeup. What would she look like?

[Sweetpea1]

That is hilarious. Better yet, a reality show. Envision the Botkinettes and the J'slaves styling Sarah's hair. And showing her ...makeup. What would she look like?

They could introduce Sara to Pepsi and Iphones... .

[justlurking]

They could introduce Sara to Pepsi and Iphones... .

I think Sara may be well acquainted with Pepsi since her mother was supposedly addicted to it at one point in time. I'm sure she's heard her fair share of sermons from Steve about the evils of Pepsi.

[Librul]

I suspect that la femmes Botkin will end up marrying younger men, as did Blair Brown and Genevieve (Isaccharian Daughter).

Someone...Get a comb and a box of Nutrisse, STAT!

[thoughtful]

--Elizabeth is always camera-ready. I don't think I've ever seen a picture of her where her face didn't look juuust right.

That's because she's always making the same face! I bet she's got herself so disciplined at making that face that she makes it in her sleep.

[Minerva]

Either way: yes, toasters are braver than the Botkin girls. And not just animated ones.

:clap: This. Their lifestyle is the exact opposite of brave, and at their age they are in it entirely by choice - not because they're being abused or made afraid to leave, but because it's easier for them to sit around and let others think for them. And whatevs, they can choose that mediocre existence if they want, but it's totally hypocritical for them to then criticize someone else for not being "brave" enough.

If someone pointed out to them what their hairstyle means in the secular world, I bet they'd abandon it in an instant.

[MamaJunebug]

...If someone pointed out to them what their hairstyle means in the secular world, I bet they'd abandon it in an instant.

Do you think? Let's suppose they do know what it means, out here.

Maybe it's a silent cry for help, a "save me" sign as it were.

I know, it sounds a little fetched, but consider Katie Holmes. For the last 6 months to a year, she's been looking like stuff on a shingle; now she's made a decisive move away from a husband who by accounts is a nutcase, and she's spiffed up again.

Something to consider.

;) :lol:

[Rider]

Is it just me or did anyone else think of the Toby Keith song "Red Solo Cup"?