Let's talk about headcovering!

[masagoroll]

Inspired by this video I stumbled across.

youtu.be/kcQPuY1wQRE

I am not actually snarking this video because I think it is really cool! She looks cute and is good at doing those ties. I liked this video a lot and wasn't thinking of it as very fundie. I just looked it up out of curiosity.

The comments, however, got slightly lol-tastic. The poster of this video tells a commenter that a woman's hair could "turn on a man during prayers."

If someone is excited by hair, they must be SUPER-excited in the world at large. Hair everywhere!

Now I have started watching a bunch of hair covering videos and I think a lot of them look really cool. But I am wondering about the fundie-ness of it all. Like, if a little hair shows, is that scandalous? Is hair REALLY supposed to be so arousing?

And what are the differences among various religions and beliefs regarding hair covering? Like, why would Jewish people say they do it, why would Muslim people say they do it, and why would Christian fundies we know who cover their hair say they do it?

I am hoping that some people with actual experience can contribute here because I know we have a very diverse board and I am quite clueless! ( I'm former Christian fundie-lite, but with no hair covering experience, heh.)

[Alecto]

Christians who cover (Not all of them are fundies) do so because of the scriptures:

"Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered." 1Cor. 11:4-6.

There are liberal Christian women who cover, and many plain Quaker women cover.

[xDreamerx]

I would never, even if I suddenly became devote because it just reeks of wifely submission to me (1 Timothy 2:11). I know in the Jewish tradition both men and women are required to cover their heads in reverence to God. But in Orthodox and Chassidic (Hasidic? I've seen it written both ways) wifely submission is underlined. It's just so stereotypically feminine and in a bad way. You know, just sit in the corner, keep silent, learn to sew, play the piano and have a reasonable command of french and you'll do fine. Otherwise you are to remain stupid and differ to someone with a penis on all things because as we've been saying since Aristotle men are just better. *1950s TV twinkle smile*. I refuse to be pushed back into being considered chattle because of my sex.

/rant over.

[Shirley MacLaine]

"Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered." 1Cor. 11:4-6.

I don't know why but this sent me into a serious giggle fit.

[liltwinstar]

I had to wear a headcovering in church from the time I was about 12 until...well, until I stopped going to church when I was around 22!

My parents made the decision that we were to cover based on the verse(s) in Corinthians. I was none-too-pleased about it at first, just because it made me feel like (more of) a freak. The pastor that we had "liked" headcoverings, just not enough to make his wife and daughter wear them - a fact that did not elude me, let me tell you!

At first, my mom made us wear these awful white mantilla things that flapped when I waked and wouldn't stay put and looked ridiculous. Then we were allowed to wear hats - blessed day!

When we converted to Eastern Orthodox church, I didn't feel so freaky any more - the jurisdiction that we were a part of had *lots* of women who practiced headcovering in church, so it became normal for me. Later, I started going to a different parish where people dressed up a lot, and women still wore headcoverings there too. I wore hats on occasion (like on Easter), but mostly I just wore scarves draped around my head, crossed under my chin, and tied behind my head. They stayed on better that way. Hair showing wasn't really the issue; the idea was that you had to have a visible scarf on. I had a good time matching my scarves to my outfits :) In fact, I still have a lovely scarf I bought in Russia - blue with brown flowers. It's really big, though, so I haven't figured out how to wear it in a non-headscarf way.

Even though I didn't feel freakish any more, the headcovering thing still bothered me. I asked our priest once why I/we had to wear them, and he said "because the Mother of God did" and that was the only answer I got. Really helpful, that. If I'd been snarky back then (I wasn't; I was a good girl) I would have asked him if I had to wear a blue and red robe, too, since that's apparently what the Mother of God wore, at least according to our iconography.

To this day, I don't like wearing stuff on my head. It just reminds me too much of being a second-class citizen. I'll wear something if it's raining and/or cold, but I live in CA where that doesn't come up much. When I married, I refused to even consider wearing a veil - while I think they're pretty on other people, and recognize that others can wear them without baggage - for me, it's a symbol of oppression and a crappy time in my life, and I didn't want to feel that way on my wedding day. So I happily went bare-headed.

[Alecto]

I have a good friend who is a lesbian and also a Quaker. She covers, because she believes that it is a constant reminder to "Pray without ceasing." So, headcovering isn't always patriarchal or something that is done to oppress women. I also know many feminist Muslim women who cover out of their own choice, and do so because they feel like it empowers them. One of my good friends actually went against her parents' wishes when she started covering, because they were worried about how she would be treated. She feels like it makes people focus on her, and not her body or anything else, but her skills and abilities as a nurse. (She wears really cool tunic like scrubs with wide leg pants, too!)

[Patsy]

I have a good friend who is a lesbian and also a Quaker. She covers, because she believes that it is a constant reminder to "Pray without ceasing."

That's really cool. I wear wide headbands and bandanas occasionally (no religion), and when I first did it my grandmother recoiled and asked if I was joining our local cult whose women all cover, or the Muslims. :|

[lexiloumarie]

I would never, even if I suddenly became devote because it just reeks of wifely submission to me (1 Timothy 2:11). I know in the Jewish tradition both men and women are required to cover their heads in reverence to God. But in Orthodox and Chassidic (Hasidic? I've seen it written both ways) wifely submission is underlined. It's just so stereotypically feminine and in a bad way. You know, just sit in the corner, keep silent, learn to sew, play the piano and have a reasonable command of french and you'll do fine. Otherwise you are to remain stupid and differ to someone with a penis on all things because as we've been saying since Aristotle men are just better. *1950s TV twinkle smile*. I refuse to be pushed back into being considered chattle because of my sex.

/rant over.

That's not entirely true of Judaism. Orthodoxy varies, but I will say submission like we see with fundie women is not emphasized the same way. Conservative and reform congregations will sometimes have women who wear kippah, either just in temple or all the time. Obviously not a sign of submission to man, G_d probably, but not man.

[Nothing2CHere]

I wasn't around back then, and have never had to do this myself, but apparently in the Catholic church women used to have to have their head covered before entering the church (I am assuming this is pre-Vatican II). I have no idea why, probably based on that same bible passage. I do remember my mother telling me that when she was a little girl, she'd occasionally need to have a Kleenex bobby-pinned onto her head because they had forgotten her scarf at home.

[Kaylee]

I cover for church, at home for prayers & Bible study, and often throughout the day when my husband is at work (he says doesn't care what I wear, but would prefer I not cover around him, so I don't). I try to wear one that somewhat blends in with my hair, like in my avatar, rather than one that draws more attention.

As for the reasoning, I do it because of the verses in 1 Corinthians that Alecto posted (the meaning is apparently more clear in Greek than English), and because it seems to have been the custom through most of the history of the church in almost all denominations & groups formed prior to the 1900s. Most of churches I grew up in did not cover, and one taught the that covering was long, uncut hair (but had abandoned even that tradition), but this was one of the things I studied when I converted to (or back to, depending on how you look at it) Christianity in my mid-20s.

I don't think it is an issue of modesty, or a danger of a woman's hair inciting a man to lust or anything like that. I think the idea of covered hair = modesty may have been picked up more from Islamic beliefs and the abundance of "modest dress" sites and stores that also promote headcovering, but the Bible itself doesn't make a connection there. For me, it is a reminder of God's order and authority and, when I covered full-time, helped me remember to keep my heart on God and to live in a Christian manner. I feel more "in tune" with God and "safer" when I am wearing a covering, but it's sort of hard to explain. I have only gone without a headcovering in church once in the past 7 years (I had a chiffon scarf with no clips and it kept sliding down, so I stuck it in my purse rather than fidget with it through the whole service), and I felt really uncomfortable, even though I'm usually the only one in church who does cover.

The amount of hair shown, and type of covering considered acceptable depends on the group. Most of our blogger types that have picked up headcovering on their own seem to be cool with bandanas, scarves, or whatever, and long hair hanging down underneath is ok. Some others, like the Amish and other very conservative Anabaptist groups, regulate the type of covering and hairstyle (ie, hair in a bun so it is all covered, and a certain type of capp/covering or certain size/style of bandana or veil). There are a few who insist the covering has to be at least large enough to cover the whole head, or enough to hang down in the back, while some others are ok with a small doily or chapel cap or a wide headband. The Bible doesn't specify, so there's no real rule unless it established by a church or religious community, and even some of the earliest writings of the "church fathers" show some complaining about gauzy or small headcoverings.

[maybeizfundie]

I wear a covering.

It's not about modesty and the Scriptural basis for it isn't about modesty. I see Raine already covered that. :)

My coverings evolved :lol: over a couple of years. Finally just stuck with a small, short white headcovering. It's the simplest and most comfortable and my background is mostly anabaptist so it feels "normal" to me. Back when I was intending to find a conservative Mennonite church to join, I wore the "coffee filter" coverings. I love the "tichel" style but I apparently do not have a head that's shaped to wear it and look nice.