Rutgers Case Verdict: Guilty

[Visionoyahweh]

I don't think this has been talked about here, but Ravi was found guilty. Considering many of the fundies snarked on here will never be called to be mat for their bullying, its nice to see there's a little justice in the world, somewhere.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/16/justice/n ... Stories%29

[debrand]

Ravi turned down a plea deal offered by Middlesex County prosecutors that would have allowed him to avoid jail time in exchange for undergoing counseling, doing 600 hours of community service and disposing of any information that could identify the man who appeared in the Web video with Clementi.

Why would he turn down the plea bargin?

[lovefromgirl]

Maybe he felt, well, guilty.

[debrand]

Maybe he felt, well, guilty.

Nah. He would have just pled guilty and saved the state the expense of a jury trail. He must have thought he would be found innocent or maybe he had a crappy defense lawyer that told him he could win.

[Visionoyahweh]

Why would he turn down the plea bargin?

His lawyer said he wanted to clear his name. 600 hours of community service is a pretty light punishment. He was stupid to not go for it.

[lilwriter85]

Nah. He would have just pled guilty and saved the state the expense of a jury trail. He must have thought he would be found innocent or maybe he had a crappy defense lawyer that told him he could win.

I think it was maybe a combination of both. I read somewhere that the defense lawyer was going to point out that Ravi and Clementi had been feuding over different things and also Ravi said at one point that he had the webcam on to make sure that the guy Clementi brought to the room didn't steal his iPad. I think Ravi was hoping that the jury wouldn't think what he did was a big deal.

[gustava]

I wondered, too, why he didn't accept the plea bargain. Perhaps it was a combination of his own arrogance and sense that he'd done nothing wrong, and inadequate counsel. Or his counsel couldn't persuade him and his family to accept the plea. Given that his roommate committed suicide, he should have thought it through more carefully.

[lilwriter85]

I wondered, too, why he didn't accept the plea bargain. Perhaps it was a combination of his own arrogance and sense that he'd done nothing wrong, and inadequate counsel. Or his counsel couldn't persuade him and his family to accept the plea. Given that his roommate committed suicide, he should have thought it through more carefully.

Ravi is pretty arrogant. When the case first broke, I read on a topix board that Ravi was disliked by a lot of his high school classmates.

[socalrules]

I think arrogance played a large part in turning down the plea deal but I wonder if his immigration status is what made him decide to go to trial. I heard on the news that after he serves whatever sentence he is given, he may be deported to his native India. It may be that any plea bargain would have resulted in his green card or visa being revoked. I don't know anything about immigration but a plea bargain may have hurt his chances of staying in the country as well. If that is the case, it is more understandable why he rolled the dice. Of course, since I don't like the idea of spending time in jail, I would have taken the plea bargain and taken my chances with the INS.

[Alana Rickman]

Why would he turn down the plea bargin?

He was probably afraid he would be deported. Now, he almost certainly will be after he finishes serving his sentence.

[shesinsane]

FYI, it's Rutgers (aka the state university of New Jersey).

I hope this gets tons of press. Bullies everywhere need to know there are consequences for actions, and saying "I'm sorry" won't be good enough.

[Visionoyahweh]

For anyone interested, the New Yorker published a pretty exhaustive article this whole case. It's really, really good.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012 ... act_parker

Ravi was a dumb kid in many respects, but he was out in the world and these things happen when you rattle other people lives. Welcome to adult responsibility.

ETA:

FYI, it's Rutgers (aka the state university of New Jersey).

Sorry. Fixed!

[gustava]

For anyone interested, the New Yorker published a pretty exhaustive article this whole case. It's really, really good.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012 ... act_parker

Ravi was a dumb kid in many respects, but he was out in the world and these things happen when you rattle other people lives. Welcome to adult responsibility.

ETA:

Sorry. Fixed!

Thanks for the link. I've been wanting to find in-dept info.

[Caxpax]

Per the Middlesex DA, the plea bargain Ravi was offered would have guaranteed he WOULDN'T be deported. He turned it down because he's an arrogant little shit- which is why he wasn't put up on the stand to testify nor did he have any character witnesses other than his FATHER'S friends.

Had he plead out, admitted what he did was wrong, and shown some remorse, (as Molly Wei has attempted to do, sorta) then I'd almost feel bad for him. A lot of other 18 year old boys have done equally stupid things and been able to recover and go on to lead productive lives. Because of his arrogance and his refusal to accept any responsibility for what he did, I'm hoping he spends a decade in jail and is booted out of the U.S.

And I hope other bullies take note of this. It is not ok to harass anyone, spy on anyone, humiliate anyone, for any reason. You break the law, you go to jail- even if your victim was gay.

[fuglyexfundy]

I hope he gets deported. Clementi's life is over and Ravi and Wei played a role in that. At least Ravi can continue his life elsewhere and his family will still be able to see him. I hope he becomes a better person and learns from this experience on the other side of the world. There are better people waiting to immigrate from all corners of the earth.

[Katiebug]

Per the Middlesex DA, the plea bargain Ravi was offered would have guaranteed he WOULDN'T be deported. He turned it down because he's an arrogant little shit- which is why he wasn't put up on the stand to testify nor did he have any character witnesses other than his FATHER'S friends.

I haven't followed it closely, but I read the piece in the New Yorker and at the time felt that Ravi's demonization might have been a bit over-the-top. He seemed like a kid who did something stupid and unfortunately it billowed out of control and his roommate committed suicide. But now he just seems incredibly arrogant.

He was stupid to not take the plea bargain, especially since it protected him from being deported. He could have done his community service, maybe changed his name and started over at a different school and gone on to have a productive and hopefully less-impulsive adult life.

[gustava]

Per the Middlesex DA, the plea bargain Ravi was offered would have guaranteed he WOULDN'T be deported. He turned it down because he's an arrogant little shit- which is why he wasn't put up on the stand to testify nor did he have any character witnesses other than his FATHER'S friends.

Had he plead out, admitted what he did was wrong, and shown some remorse, (as Molly Wei has attempted to do, sorta) then I'd almost feel bad for him. A lot of other 18 year old boys have done equally stupid things and been able to recover and go on to lead productive lives. Because of his arrogance and his refusal to accept any responsibility for what he did, I'm hoping he spends a decade in jail and is booted out of the U.S.

And I hope other bullies take note of this. It is not ok to harass anyone, spy on anyone, humiliate anyone, for any reason. You break the law, you go to jail- even if your victim was gay.

Based on the New Yorker article, while the DA went out of his/her way to craft a plea arrangement, the second deal did not guarantee he wouldn't be deported; it said

: no jail time, an effort to protect him against deportation, and six hundred hours of community service.

(emphasis mine)

katiebug: I don't think the article demonized him; I thought it was pretty even-handed. At times, both young men acted like immature jerks. I think what really trapped Ravi was his attempts at coverup.

[PokaDot]

I think it was maybe a combination of both. I read somewhere that the defense lawyer was going to point out that Ravi and Clementi had been feuding over different things and also Ravi said at one point that he had the webcam on to make sure that the guy Clementi brought to the room didn't steal his iPad. I think Ravi was hoping that the jury wouldn't think what he did was a big deal.

He had a crappy defense lawyer if the lawyer told Ravi he could be found "innocent", because one is never found "innocent" after a conviction, just "not guilty".

[cindyluvs24]

I went to Rutgers back in the eighties and found it a very gay-friendly campus. There were out of the closet professors and students - basically nobody cared. It was an intense place, filled with working-class kids. There was plenty of sex of all kinds going on - nobody cared either way. Both kids in this case exchanged tweets with their friends about the "other" roommate from the beginning. Clementi didn't want a stereotypical Indian and Ravi didn't want a stereotypical gay.

Clementi had recently come out to his parents and his mother did not take it well at all. Ravi had pulled some crap in high school with the computer not sure of the details. This was a trainwreck waiting to happen - however, had Clementi waited a week, the whole thing would have blown over. He would have gotten a new room, people would lose interest and go back to their lives.... Tragic, yes. Criminal, IMHO, no. Remember: there had been a spate of suicides by gay teenagers in other states and people wanted to get tough on anti-gay bullying.

[Alana Rickman]

Per the Middlesex DA, the plea bargain Ravi was offered would have guaranteed he WOULDN'T be deported. He turned it down because he's an arrogant little shit- which is why he wasn't put up on the stand to testify nor did he have any character witnesses other than his FATHER'S friends.

A city or county DA almost certainly would not have made that guarantee. There's absolutely no way a local DA can control what the federal immigration authorities decide to do, and any decent defense attorney would know that and would call the DA's bluff on such a bullshit promise. The DA can promise to put in a good word with ICE in exchange for a plea, but he/she can't make any promises about what ICE will or will not do.

[DarkAnts]

I think it was maybe a combination of both. I read somewhere that the defense lawyer was going to point out that Ravi and Clementi had been feuding over different things and also Ravi said at one point that he had the webcam on to make sure that the guy Clementi brought to the room didn't steal his iPad. I think Ravi was hoping that the jury wouldn't think what he did was a big deal.

If I were on the jury then I would not buy the I did not want him to steal my ipad excuse. The ipad is portable and he could have taken it with him or even asked if he could keep it in his RA's room. I found it telling that most of the defenses character witnesses were friends of his father. They all had professional relationships with him. There are things that you may say to a friend but not to another professional.

[Bella99]

I went to Rutgers back in the eighties and found it a very gay-friendly campus. There were out of the closet professors and students - basically nobody cared. It was an intense place, filled with working-class kids. There was plenty of sex of all kinds going on - nobody cared either way. Both kids in this case exchanged tweets with their friends about the "other" roommate from the beginning. Clementi didn't want a stereotypical Indian and Ravi didn't want a stereotypical gay.

Clementi had recently come out to his parents and his mother did not take it well at all. Ravi had pulled some crap in high school with the computer not sure of the details. This was a trainwreck waiting to happen - however, had Clementi waited a week, the whole thing would have blown over. He would have gotten a new room, people would lose interest and go back to their lives.... Tragic, yes. Criminal, IMHO, no. Remember: there had been a spate of suicides by gay teenagers in other states and people wanted to get tough on anti-gay bullying.

Even at the age of 18 when dinosaurs roamed the earth, I understood that taping and sharing (we used to call it spying and gossip) other people's intimate moments is very wrong. Technology has made it much easier to violate another person and Ravi got the trip he booked. And expecting someone who is dealing with one of the worst stigmas our society has, the fallout from coming out to a parent who "did not take it well" and having his most intimate privacy violated to "wait a week"? One of the reasons that people commit suicide is that the pain is so terrible and they cannot wait for it to get better, the now is too awful. How about Ravi have shown some basic decency and refrain from videorecording his roommate's sex life?

[wtfrenchtoast]

I went to Rutgers back in the eighties and found it a very gay-friendly campus. There were out of the closet professors and students - basically nobody cared. It was an intense place, filled with working-class kids. There was plenty of sex of all kinds going on - nobody cared either way. Both kids in this case exchanged tweets with their friends about the "other" roommate from the beginning. Clementi didn't want a stereotypical Indian and Ravi didn't want a stereotypical gay.

Clementi had recently come out to his parents and his mother did not take it well at all. Ravi had pulled some crap in high school with the computer not sure of the details. This was a trainwreck waiting to happen - however, had Clementi waited a week, the whole thing would have blown over. He would have gotten a new room, people would lose interest and go back to their lives.... Tragic, yes. Criminal, IMHO, no. Remember: there had been a spate of suicides by gay teenagers in other states and people wanted to get tough on anti-gay bullying.

A young man is dead because of what Ravi did. No one can say what would have happened if he just waited it out. What if Ravi had done the same thing again? Or if he moved rooms, what if his next roommate was even worse? What could have happened doesn't matter. What Ravi did was wrong and certainly criminal in my opinion. Serious invasion of privacy.

[daharyn]

Even at the age of 18 when dinosaurs roamed the earth, I understood that taping and sharing (we used to call it spying and gossip) other people's intimate moments is very wrong. Technology has made it much easier to violate another person and Ravi got the trip he booked. And expecting someone who is dealing with one of the worst stigmas our society has, the fallout from coming out to a parent who "did not take it well" and having his most intimate privacy violated to "wait a week"? One of the reasons that people commit suicide is that the pain is so terrible and they cannot wait for it to get better, the now is too awful. How about Ravi have shown some basic decency and refrain from videorecording his roommate's sex life?

co-signed 100%. I look forward to the day Ravi's deportation is in the news.

[JesusFightClub]

I dunno. This is such a terrible story, and Ravi a dislikeable character but suicide can't be "caused".

Poor Tyler, I think, had the thought in his head for a while. It's a bit like Ravi and Wei disturbed the thing that was there all along. Having said that, other things might have happened ten days or ten years later which triggered him to take his life. He was obviously super unhappy and afraid to reach out to get proper help and advice. Maybe he felt he didn't deserve it.

Another thing. At uni I had an acquaintance who killed herself. Just beforehand she had seemed so much more lively, so happier, and we knew she was having a hard time before. Her friends were saying she was back to how she used to be.

Then she got up early and did the deed. She was 19 years old. She was happy because she decided to get it over and done with and die. She made her mind up.

This event encourages me to warn all mates of depressed folk about it. A sudden tilt to a positive mood may not be good.