Pots 'n Kettles at NGJ

[hoipolloi]

Checked the No Greater Joy website, and happened to see this product placement with reader/buyer comments (shop.nogreaterjoy.org/product_info.php/products_id/303) which is a DVD of the Pearls talking about dysfunctional patriarchy on one of their lecture tours a year or two ago. The online comments are unintentionally hilarious, as follow:

Providential 1611: Is this aimed at Vision Forum?

NGJ Staff: No. This DVD is not aimed at any particular group but at the behavior that is described.

DadOfSeven: Anyone who knows Doug Phillips and the men at Vision Forum personally knows that they are not the target here. Doug and crew teach a very balanced view of patriarchy, both honoring the previous generation and yet not living in subordination to them.

[terranova]

DadOfSeven: Anyone who knows Doug Phillips and the men at Vision Forum personally knows that they are not the target here. Doug and crew teach a very balanced view of patriarchy, both honoring the previous generation and yet not living in subordination to them.

*snort*

[debrand]

The Pearls have criticised some of Vision Forums beliefs in an article before called Jumping Ship. There are slight differences between the two camp. The Pearls are more rural. Although there are many large families among their followers, they don't seem to emphasis having many children. As far as I can tell, they don't have a problem with birth control. Women are supposed to be tough and able to get dirty. Their oldest daughter did spend time as a missionary so they aren't against children living home at some point. This fits with a more rural approach to life. They seem to value self sufficiency. Also, their worship is of fathers not men in general. That might seem a minor difference but it is probably large in their minds.

[Kaylee]

Echoing some of what debrand said, the Pearls have a problem with the whole "stay at home daughter" idea and teach that adult daughters who are not yet married should spend time doing Christian service or volunteer work and should get an education (even if it is Bible college) and learn useful skills.

The also do make repeated points about submission being to ones "own husband", not to all men, and say that the local church should not override the family (something that it seems like Dougie's church tries to do). There was a part in CTBHH where it talks about the Pearl's daughter asking her dad a theological question a few weeks before her marriage and he tells her it's not his call anymore, that she will be bound to her husband's beliefs not to his. Not exactly a win for equality, but I am assuming from that that they would agree married/adult sons are bound by their own conscience/beliefs, not those of their parents.

When the VF thing came out about "when it's OK not to be girly", or whatever it's called, I wondered if it wasn't because they are losing some followers to the Pearls. Most of the VF'ers seem to push the same type of "biblical femininity" as Fascinating Womanhood, Ladies Against Feminism, and the Lady Lydia types, and those discourage women from having "unfeminine" interests or hobbies, and encourage them to avoid "masculine" work, or to do it badly or make mistakes on purpose in order to appear helpless and in need of male assistance (because making your husband "feel needed" by having to take time to fix it is so much more helpful than doing it right in the first place). Even most submissive women see that as bullshit that doesn't work well in real life, and start leaning more toward the Pearls when they see Debi encouraging women to use their skills and learn to do things like working on vehicles, plumbing, home repair, etc. The only other writer of the type I know of offhand that tells women it's ok to have those sorts of interests, and show competence in stereotypically male hobbies or even occupations is Elizbeth Hanford Rice, and her books is not so popular anymore (she wrote "Me, Obey Him?" back in the mid 70s and is the daughter of John R. Rice, so it is pretty much only known among IFBs through the "Sword of the Lord" publications).