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formergothardite

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She sent me this pm even though I am like 99.9% sure I asked her to not pm me again. Anyway, since I don't communicate with fundies via pm anymore, I am posting this here.

To begin with, paragraphs are your friend. I had to literally read your message three times to try and understand what you were saying and I'm still not sure I got it all. Large blocks of words are super hard for me to follow.

I am very sorry you had an eptopic pregnancy. This is not snark. I am sorry for that.

Now for the rest of your message:

i did not have an abortion, in fact baby was probably already dead. they took out 2/3 of my tube. i would not have had one though cause i trust my doctors who are pro life and don't do them. (i just watched something on the net by my doc and would show it to you but i am afraid you would all go after him. but he was saying exactly how i feel=people are not bad, they are just decived.) he said it would not effect my future fertility.

Yeah for you? Really do you not have any idea of how offensive the stuff you write is? If you are trying to get me to tell you more about my eptopic pregnancy, I'm not going to do it. I already told you that.

And we don't go after people last time I checked. Unlike some pro-lifers, we aren't big on sending bombs to people or shooting them in church. The Free Jinger people who are smarter than me would probably be able to discuss his points. Not sure why that scares you. And thanks for telling me I am basically too dumb to look at info and not be deceived.

i read a brochure that said stds, abortion and contraception all increase the risk of ectopic and it has grown since all those things became more common. (this makes em some sort of weird enomily because i never did any of those things.)

Really, do you have any idea how offensive the stuff you write is?! Any at all? So now you are blaming women for having an eptopic pregnancy? That is what it sounds like.

went back tonight and read all your comments in the original thread. i missed the part the first time where you said you signed consent papers and cried. i'm sorry you were sad. (Though part of me does have to wonder if you were sad because you knew it was a baby.)

Um, no. It was a potential baby. I lost the potential to have that fetus turn into a baby, that is why I was sad.

And the rest was about your faith, I think. I'm glad you have it and it made you feel better. But really, don't pm me again.

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Yeah-wow. I hope she realizes how offensive some of that is. (hugs) to both you and OMOH.

And one teeny bit of snark: enomily? Really?

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I'd like to see some scientific basis for the argument that STIs, abortion and contraception increase the risk of ectopic pregnancies, because I know of none and I don't trust a brochure that doesn't provide scientific evidence as a sufficient resource for making life decisions. Actually, I think there's a *slightly* increased risk of ectopic pregnancy with IUDs, but given how rare conception is in the first place they're very, very rare and account for a tiny proportion of all ectopic pregnancies. At any rate, it's incredibly rude and cruel to suggest that women are responsible for suffering an ectopic pregnancy and having to abort it (and, contrary to what she believes, they don't always die in time to be removed as dead tissue. Sometimes you need an abortion to save the woman's life).

As for the rest, I'm just shocked at how offensive it is.

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I really think that she is just so wrapped up in what she believes that she honestly can't see how offensive the things she writes are. I doubt it even crossed her mind that all of that was very offensive.

And I just don't get why she is so scared to provide the link to her doctor, not because of privacy reasons, but because she is afraid we will go after him? Like when have we ever gone after anyone? Unless you call reporting people who abuse children to CPS that. I would totally get if it was because of privacy and not wanting people to know where she is from, but her reason makes no sense.

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I'd like to see some scientific basis for the argument that STIs, abortion and contraception increase the risk of ectopic pregnancies, because I know of none and I don't trust a brochure that doesn't provide scientific evidence as a sufficient resource for making life decisions. Actually, I think there's a *slightly* increased risk of ectopic pregnancy with IUDs, but given how rare conception is in the first place they're very, very rare and account for a tiny proportion of all ectopic pregnancies. At any rate, it's incredibly rude and cruel to suggest that women are responsible for suffering an ectopic pregnancy and having to abort it (and, contrary to what she believes, they don't always die in time to be removed as dead tissue. Sometimes you need an abortion to save the woman's life).

As for the rest, I'm just shocked at how offensive it is.

Yeah its IUDs AND having had a previous ectopic before. AND the earlier you catch it, the dr will terminate if its still alive, and you WILL be able to save your tube if its caught really early. The later its caught, the more the risks and loss of fertility.

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Guest Anonymous

I am genuinely sorry for the pain you went through, formergothardite. hugs xx

As for her, she wrote on her blog that she was taking January offline. She has 3 weeks to go.... please go away again OMOH. Your crazy levels of insensitivity, and total lack of self awareness are too tiring.

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Honestly, it was a long time ago and I am over it. But I still don't feel like going into all the minor details so she can decide if I could have made another decision. It really is no one's business.

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Did she send this to you recently? Her blog says she is on hiatus until feb.

Well I guess she needs to stir the pot, even behind closed doors.

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She sent it today. If it wasn't that she didn't have a history of saying totally insensitive things, I would just chalk this up to her being upset at having an eptopic pregnancy.

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Honestly, it was a long time ago and I am over it. But I still don't feel like going into all the minor details so she can decide if I could have made another decision. It really is no one's business.

No, it's not and you are not obligated to tell anyone about it. ohom is saying she miscarried her ectopic pregnancy? I have heard that it can happen, but normally it does not and had to be taken care of before the tube ruptures. I think it's when a tube ruptures that causes fertility issues. And STDs, abortion and contraception are not said to cause ectopic pregnancies.

Not breaking link since it's a health site.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001897/

ETA: Breakling is not a word.

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How could an ectopic pregnancy NOT affect a woman's future fertility? It wouldn't necessarily affect her ovary, but wouldn't one of her Fallopian tubes essentially be toast?

(I know women who did give birth after tubal pregnancies, but still...)

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Guest Anonymous

Thank you for posting this formergothardite. I think that a very valuable part of freejinger is that we are unabashed about shining light into dark corners. ;)

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How could an ectopic pregnancy NOT affect a woman's future fertility? It wouldn't necessarily affect her ovary, but wouldn't one of her Fallopian tubes essentially be toast?

(I know women who did give birth after tubal pregnancies, but still...)

If they catch it REALLY REALLY early it doesn't. They can give you basically the abortion pill and the fetus will reabsorb. Or they'll do a laproscopic procedure. Happened to a good friend of mine~ she ended up doing the pill and it was successful. She got successfully pregnant a few months later and carried to term.

Formergothardite- i'm sorry she's harassing you. *hugs*

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How could an ectopic pregnancy NOT affect a woman's future fertility? It wouldn't necessarily affect her ovary, but wouldn't one of her Fallopian tubes essentially be toast?

That was always my understanding too, although I have no medical background so maybe I'm wrong.

Also, the b.s. about "going after" her doctor; if he put something "on the 'net" it doesn't sound like he's trying to hide his identity or his opinions, so what's the big deal. I'd like to hear what he has to say, being deceived as I am.

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If they catch it REALLY REALLY early it doesn't. They can give you basically the abortion pill and the fetus will reabsorb. Or they'll do a laproscopic procedure. Happened to a good friend of mine~ she ended up doing the pill and it was successful. She got successfully pregnant a few months later and carried to term.

Formergothardite- i'm sorry she's harassing you. *hugs*

This is my understanding as well-often, but not always. Not to mention that that ectopic doesn't necessarily mean it occurs in the fallopian tube either (it's just the most common place). It could be in the cervix, but regardless-it's still a serious problem that has to be addressed quickly. I don't have extensive medical knowledge so I am happy to be corrected by someone who knows more.

And count me in as one who would love to hear the doctor's post as well. No one is going to go after him. We aren't advocating harming anyone here, but snarking.

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Guest Anonymous

Bet you a dollar that "her" doctor is Dr. Walt Larimore. She linked a "birth control pills cause abortion" video by him before, at which time I pointed out that he's a paid shill for the anti-choice movement. (And that his video admitted that if the first two two methods of preventing pregnancy with the pill were to fail, (inhibition of ovulation and thickening of cervical mucus) then MAYBE the pill MIGHT prevent implantation which the video is defining as an abortion. But no study has ever demonstrated that happening.) Dr. Larimore is a member of Focus on the Family's Physicians Resource Council, has served as a medical consultant for the Total Living Television Network, CCN (Christian Communications Network), and he's featured on multiple anti-choice websites.

viewtopic.php?p=147442#p147442

I mean, don't you want medical and scientific citations from a website with "jesus-passion" in the address?

You can read his bullshit about ectopic pregnancy occurrence here: (broken link, will need to copy and paste.)

jesus-passion.com/bcpill2.html

I didn't locate a video, but maybe someone with better google powers can give it a try.

**Edited to add more credits to Doc Larimore's dubious list of achievements.

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My understanding is that most doctors will abort an ectopic pregnancy and that this poses little risk to future fertility if done early.

Extreme pro-life doctors, despite knowing that the baby is going to die anyway, will wait and see, until the baby dies and is removed along with the fallopian tube it has destroyed, or until the mother's life is actually endangered. Most pro-life physicians will not treat this way because it is high liability (they are withholding necessary medical care) and high risk to the patient. With one fallopian tube gone, OMOH is half as fertile as she was before--simple math there.

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It is absolutely an abortion: a therapeutic abortion that, like other types, prevents negative outcomes for the mother. And there are many people in the pro-life world and leadership who would like to outlaw it and see more women compromise their health for a nonviable fetus.

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How the fuck are ectopic pregnancies even an issue? Risk to mother = needs to go. Period.

My mother had an ectopic pregnancy when I was nine. She had abdominal pain, went to the doctor, and was told to go home and get things (childcare, work, etc) arraigned for the next few days because she needed to be admitted ASAP for surgery. "Wait and see" was never an option. Probably because her OBGYN was awesome and didn't have his head in his ass (you cannot imagine how devastated I was when the guy transferred to another job before I was old enough to need an OBGYN- women from cities over an hour away came to him because he had such a positive reputation)

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I'd like to see some scientific basis for the argument that STIs, abortion and contraception increase the risk of ectopic pregnancies, because I know of none and I don't trust a brochure that doesn't provide scientific evidence as a sufficient resource for making life decisions.

I learned (in nursing school, not SOTDR) that chlaymidia in particular increases a woman's risk of an ectopic pregnancy because it can cause scarring which can cause the fertilized egg to get stuck. That was the only STI that was mentioned, and abortion was never mentioned as a cause. IUDs are the only contraceptive that increases the risk of ectopics, but like you said, it's incredibly rare. The vast majority of ectopics are for unknown reasons and blaming women for them is horrifically sick.

Also, does omoh seriously believe that her fertility is the same after having a fallopian tube removed? Also, hate to break it to you, but if it was growing, it was alive. If you didn't have your tube rupture, it was still growing and if your doctor had you wait until your tube ruptured, you've got a great malpractice case against him.

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i read a brochure that said stds, abortion and contraception all increase the risk of ectopic and it has grown since all those things became more common

Well I read two brochures that said the opposite :roll:

Honestly, it's not like random, biased propaganda brochures are a reliable source of information, so excuse me if I'm not convinced.

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