Dramaz at the Good Men Project?

[MerryHappy]

Im not terribly familiar with the GMP but I figured when the head of it is sympathizing with the MRA, something is not quite right.

 

One of the journalists (?) resigned. I found the article that GMP would not publish to be quite interesting and I thought many of you might as well.

 

http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2011/12/21/ ... n-project/

 

 

Quote

One of the most popular articles of the year (and certainly one of the most-viewed here at GMP) is Yashar Ali’s now thoroughly viral Why Women Aren’t Crazy. Referencing an old film, Yashar coined the simple term “gaslighting†to describe the way in which men undermine women’s self-confidence through subtle (and not so) insinuations that women’s feelings are unreasonable. I’ve thought about Yashar’s piece quite a bit as I’ve reflected on the recent Twitter blow-up between GMP founder Tom Matlack and a number of well-known feminist writers. (For more, see here, and here, and here.)

 

I’ve also remembered an incident from a women’s studies class of mine many years ago. It was a typical course; perhaps 30 women and 6 men. Most of the guys had been quiet all semester long. But one (there is often such a one) was a talker. “Kevin†liked to stir the proverbial pot; a member of the college’s forensics team, he was a skilled debater who liked to argue. Many of his female classmates argued back, not infrequently getting the better of him, which spurred Kevin to try even harder to instigate arguments.

 

One day, Kevin came to class with a duffle bag. I thought little of it, until – in the midst of a discussion about men and feminism – he reached into the duffle and pulled out a football helmet. “I know I’m gonna get killed for what I’m about to sayâ€, he announced dramatically; “I brought some protection.†Kevin then strapped the helmet on as his classmates and I stared in shock. I told him to cut out the cheap theatrics, but not before he’d made a powerful point, though I’m confident it wasn’t the one he intended to make.

 

Kevin’s gag with the football helmet was designed to send a signal about women and anger. The message he wanted to send was, as he told me later, that “feminists take things too seriously and get too aggressive.†The message he actually sent was that men will go to great lengths to try and short-circuit women’s attempts at serious conversation. The helmet was an effort to label those attempts as “male-bashing†or “man-hating.†The hope was that it would shame uppity feminists into biting back their anger; of course, Kevin only ended up inflaming the situation. In less dramatic ways, I’ve seen men use this same tactic again and again.

 

What bothered so many of us about the Twitter conversation about feminism was that Tom Matlack trotted out (as so many men do) that same tactic of attempting to silence women’s anger by suggesting that it poses a threat. Tom tweeted at Jenn Pozner that some men are afraid to speak up out of fear of female reprisals. Kind of being proven right here. Now Jennifer Pozner is a well-known feminist media critic, but she’s hardly in the position to carry out “reprisals†against anyone for speaking out, not that she would if she could. Nor was Jenn (or Kate Harding, or Amanda Marcotte) engaged in throwing stones, which didn’t stop Tom from describing the “pelting†he was taking from feminists.

 

A short while later, Tom tweeted I really thought the MRA guys were crazy until I engaged the wrath of the feminists. Insane. Though I doubt Tom thought this through clearly, this is the textbook “gaslighting†to which Yashar refers. No feminist had called Tom a name equivalent to the names he (and I) are regularly called by MRAs (“mangina†is the epithet of choice from the Basement Boys); it didn’t matter. Jennifer and Amanda were “insane.â€

 

Seemingly innocuous words often have a profound charge depending on how and by whom they’re used. Tom knows, surely, how problematic it is to use the word “boy†to refer to an African-American. It’s not a curse word in most contexts, but when used by a white person to refer to an adult black male, it’s steeped in the long and painful history of racism in America. What many men fail to understand is that accusing a woman of being insane or of engaging in reprisals merely because she’s expressing forceful disagreement has an equivalent ugliness. If that seems hyperbolic, google the word “hysteria.â€

 

All of this behavior reflects two things: men’s genuine fear of being challenged and confronted, and the persistence of the stereotype of feminists as being aggressive, wrathful, “man-bashers.†The painful thing about all this, of course, is that no man is in any real physical danger on the internet— or even in real life — from feminists. Women are regularly beaten and raped — even on college campuses — but I know of no instance where a man found himself a victim of violence for making a sexist remark in a feminist setting! “Male-bashing†doesn’t literally happen, in other words, at least not as a result of arguments over feminism. But that doesn’t stop men from using (in jest or no) their own exaggerated fear of physical violence to make a subtle point about feminists.

 

There’s a conscious purpose to this sort of behavior. Joking about getting pelted (or putting on the football helmet) sends a message to women in the classroom – and online: “Tone it down. Take care of the men and their feelings. Don’t scare them off, because too much impassioned feminism is scary for guys.†And you know, as exasperating as it is, this kind of silencing language almost always works. Time and again, I’ve seen it work to silence women in the classroom, or at least cause them to worry about how to phrase things “just right†so as to protect the guys and their feelings. It’s a key anti-feminist strategy, even if that isn’t the actual intent of the men doing it — it forces women to become conscious caretakers of their male peers by subduing their own frustration and anger. It reminds young women that they should strive to avoid being one of those “angry feminists†who (literally) scares men off and drives them away

 

This doesn’t mean that a “good man†is always in the wrong when he’s arguing with a woman. It does mean that when men and women argue about gender justice, women are more likely to have insights that men have missed. Here’s the basic axiom: power conceals itself from those who possess it. And the corollary is that privilege is revealed more clearly to those who don’t have it. When a man and a woman are arguing about feminism – and the women involved happen to be feminists and the man happens to be an affluent white dude – the chances that he’s the one from whom the truth is more obscured is very high indeed. That’s as true for me as it is for Tom Matlack.

 

I’ll say it a thousand times. I respect and admire Tom Matlack for what he’s done to start this conversation, even as I disagree with him about the degree to which men and women are really different. I disagree with his take about being “attacked†by feminists, as I don’t see the evidence of animus towards him that that word implies. But the real disagreement we have is, I think, a bigger (though not necessarily insurmountable) one.

 

This is the Good Man Project, and as I’ve said a time or nine, I think the opposite of “man†is not “womanâ€, but “boy.†At the heart of the reason I joined GMP was because I believe we live in a culture where too few adult males assert the grown-up virtues of self-control, responsibility, and manifested empathy. Being “manly†is less about traditional machismo than it is about what the Apostle Paul calls the putting away of childish things. And one of those childish things adult men put away is the need to deflect, belittle, or exaggerate women’s anger.

[Witsec1]

I've never heard of the Good Men Project. Is it a christian thing?

[Angri-la]

I think the opposite of “man†is not “womanâ€, but “boy.†At the heart of the reason I joined GMP was because I believe we live in a culture where too few adult males assert the grown-up virtues of self-control, responsibility, and manifested empathy. Being “manly†is less about traditional machismo than it is about what the Apostle Paul calls the putting away of childish things. And one of those childish things adult men put away is the need to deflect, belittle, or exaggerate women’s anger.

Very well put, however, I feel like I need to investigate them a little more- are they like Promise Keepers? I do like the above, out of context quote, as it sums up my feelings. The fundies are too enmeshed in gender roles which no longer truly exist.

[Austin]

The writer of the article articulately expressed what I've been trying to explain to the men in my life for years.

[Witsec1]

Very well put, however, I feel like I need to investigate them a little more- are they like Promise Keepers? I do like the above, out of context quote, as it sums up my feelings. The fundies are too enmeshed in gender roles which no longer truly exist.

But this is explaining why he left the GMP. Because they were exaggerating or belittling women's anger.

[MerryHappy]

From what I can gather after looking around a bit. GMP is a website for progressive men? A place for "good guys" to read? Articles range from knuckle dragging misogynist to feminist contributors. Not religiously based as far as I can tell.

It would appear that the owner Tom (?) made some shitty comments about women on Twitter. Was called on it by feminist bloggers and the folks over at Jezebel. He continued to make comment, going so far as to empathize with the MRA crowd.

The drama escalated to the above quoted author resigning at GMP.

I didn't know much about GMP prior to this but what I know of them now is a huge turn off.

[Markie]

When I first saw this post, I read "Mad Men." Guess I'm Jonesing for the new season...

[Austin]

When I first saw this post, I read "Mad Men." Guess I'm Jonesing for the new season...

Oh, you and me both. What is taking soooooo long?

/OT

[debrand]

Being aggressive and standing up for oneself is considered positive traits for men. When a woman displays the same type of behavior, she isn't just considered unfeminine but a threat to men.

[duplessis3]

i have a dear friend who has written for the Good Men Project. He is a liberal Christian, likes hanging with UUs etc. I'll have to ask him about the controversy. But he's not a Man's RIght-er.

[holierthanyou]

My brief glance through the website made me think it was aimed at "progressive" men who know that "these days" it is the straight, white, american man who is persecuted...

[godlytomatosoup]

That article rocks. It's a pity they wouldn't publish it.

[kayray]

I loved that "Why Women Aren't Crazy" article referred to in there. It is a great essay on how many women are conditioned to "lose their voice" (not directly told to "keep sweet", but taught their opinions do not matter, or that they are just too sensitive if they stand up for themselves, etc). I forwarded it to several people I know who related to it from experiences they had in relationships, with their parents, broader society, etc.

However, that is the only essay I ever read at the site (and did not find it to be anti-feminist at all!) and so this whole controversy/anti-feminist turn is rather disheartening. I am glad Hugo resigned and glad his article is still getting out there! It is beautiful, well written, and very insightful.

Here is info on GMP:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Good_Men_Project

[Austin]

I loved that "Why Women Aren't Crazy" article referred to in there. It is a great essay on how many women are conditioned to "lose their voice" (not directly told to "keep sweet", but taught their opinions do not matter, or that they are just too sensitive if they stand up for themselves, etc). I forwarded it to several people I know who related to it from experiences they had in relationships, with their parents, broader society, etc.

However, that is the only essay I ever read at the site (and did not find it to be anti-feminist at all!) and so this whole controversy/anti-feminist turn is rather disheartening. I am glad Hugo resigned and glad his article is still getting out there! It is beautiful, well written, and very insightful.

Here is info on GMP:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Good_Men_Project

I read the comments after the Why Women Aren't Crazy article and there's a lot of "what about the menz"? I guess some people don't understand systemic and systematic vs. situational. By the way, I am NOT the Austin that commented there (lol).

http://goodmenproject.com/featured-cont ... ent-crazy/

[kayray]

I read the comments after the Why Women Aren't Crazy article and there's a lot of "what about the menz"? I guess some people don't understand systemic and systematic vs. situational. By the way, I am NOT the Austin that commented there (lol).

http://goodmenproject.com/featured-cont ... ent-crazy/

Oh, I know. I could not read too many of the comments because of that!

[Angri-la]

Being aggressive and standing up for oneself is considered positive traits for men. When a woman displays the same type of behavior, she isn't just considered unfeminine but a threat to men.

Yep. At my work, if a man is assertive, he is "just doing his job". If I am assertive, I am a "power hungry bitch". Actually, I am a power bulimic; I hate it, I just want the job to get done.

[GenerationCedarchip]

I saw that article earlier and actually thought it was really good. I'd be curious to hear more about what the behind the scenes drama is. From the resigning journalist's blog, it sounded like the woman he reports to at GMP refused to run his piece but I couldn't figure out what the supposed anti-feminist controversy was all about. I had always gotten the impression that GMP was supposed to be a more progressive site. They talk about it on Jezebel from time to time and I think some folks from GMP have done guest posts at Jezebel.

[Kitchen Princess]

Re: gaslighting....I'm so glad I have that term. Recently my 18 yo son, whom I get along with SPLENDIDLY, and I were having a friendly discussion that, as usual, included good-natured ribbing. In response to something I said totally in jest he said, "MOM! Calm DOWN!"

Something about his tone, even though I know he didn't mean it this way (I was joking, and so was he), crawled ALL OVER ME. It invoked old feelings. My "countenance" changed, almost involuntarily, and I said, "Don't ever say that to me again." I had to leave the room so I could sort the feeling out.

Thanks for posting.

[GenerationCedarchip]

Re: gaslighting....I'm so glad I have that term. Recently my 18 yo son, whom I get along with SPLENDIDLY, and I were having a friendly discussion that, as usual, included good-natured ribbing. In response to something I said totally in jest he said, "MOM! Calm DOWN!"

Something about his tone, even though I know he didn't mean it this way (I was joking, and so was he), crawled ALL OVER ME. It invoked old feelings. My "countenance" changed, almost involuntarily, and I said, "Don't ever say that to me again." I had to leave the room so I could sort the feeling out.

Thanks for posting.

I think gaslighting is a very apt term. It sadly describes a phenomenon I see at work all too often. Another blogger describes gaslighting very well (not breaking link b/c I seriously doubt she'd care):

http://www.caphillstyle.com/capitol/201 ... place.html