The baker who refused the lesbian couple's cake-fundie view

[kpmom]

We had a post here recently about a baker who refused to bake a wedding cake for a lesbian couple due to her Christian beliefs.

 

A Christian homeschooling forum I lurk on is also discussing this, obviously from a different point of view than many of us here.

 

It's always funny when they discuss the same topics we do, which they frequently do. Here's their take;

 

chfweb.net/index.php?t=msg&th=77720&start=0&S=556f0690a6c559348e0891b71675503f

[debrand]

My only issue with this is does she refuse service to: people living together before they marry, inter-racial couples, people who are divorced and getting married, etc?

Because if you are going to say you won't do this for reasons of religious belief then you need to include all the sinful relationships. And if she did that she would have to close!

Rosemary

Rosemary was called on calling interracial couples sinful but the person responding told her not to judge divorced couples. Um......isn't that the entire point of refusing the lesbian couple.

Be careful, Rosemary. Not all of the relationships you listed are sinful. In fact, only one is - that of people living together before marriage. The rest? Especially divorced and remarrying? Do you know the circumstances that allow you to make that judgment? Inter-racial couples? I wasn't aware that is a sin.

[annalena]

I know some view divorce as adultery, living together is understandable too from fundie view, but interracial? where does the bible talk about interracial?

[debrand]

I know some view divorce as adultery, living together is understandable too from fundie view, but interracial? where does the bible talk about interracial?

It doesn't. The bible does say that Christians should marry other Christians but it says nothing about the race of those Christians.

[Mythicwings]

The very first comment was grrrrr by Lisa D

How sad that the "couple" is choosing to make an issue over this, when they can go somewhere else to buy a cake.

Yeah but not everyone is a passive follower who puts their tail between their legs and sculks off in knowledge of their sin, Lisa.

[Mythicwings]

I know some view divorce as adultery, living together is understandable too from fundie view, but interracial? where does the bible talk about interracial?

No idea, but it is a common IFB view. In my IFB school, our Bible teacher in 8th or 9th grade (who looked a LOT like Josh, but that is a very common look among christian cultists so...) told us that black people don't go to heaven. Which caused a minirebellion right in the middle of bible class, especially since there were black friends sitting right around white friends. They wouldn't let black people join the church, but they took their money to go to school there.

[jenny_islander]

It's another sign that Independent Fundamental Baptist beliefs are tribal rather than theological. God is OUR god who sits in OUR church and looks after OUR people. THOSE people are not OUR people, so they are not our god's people either. If they were God's people, they would look like us.

No different from how the Norse regarded the non-Norse, really. The Elizabethans, even in "cosmopolitan" London, used to mob and beat foreign ambassadors on the same grounds. Recently a man who was smart enough to get into the U.S. military nevertheless chased down and beat an American-born priest of an Orthodox Christian church and dragged him proudly to the cops on the grounds that he was dressed funny, so he had to be a terrorist. Tribalism.

[Mythicwings]

Recently a man who was smart enough to get into the U.S. military nevertheless chased down and beat an American-born priest of an Orthodox Christian church and dragged him proudly to the cops on the grounds that he was dressed funny, so he had to be a terrorist. Tribalism.

:o

I sure hope it isn't some kind of deeply-set genetic trait that will take us forever to get rid of. It's understandable that humans tend to have a SLIGHT tribal tendency - not understandable in the let-it-happen way, but it at least explains the tendency, genetically, if we lived that way for hundreds of thousands of years or something, maybe. IF. But stories like this make me fear it may be something humans will have to live with for a very long time into future generations, and not just because dickheads were raised that way. I hope not - but man, it just seems so easy for people to slip into trusting only ones "like them".

[Kaylee]

I know some view divorce as adultery, living together is understandable too from fundie view, but interracial? where does the bible talk about interracial?

It doesn't. That said, some people used to say that black skin was the "Mark of Cain" & blacks were descended from Ham, and also used the OT laws against Israelites marrying foreigners as arguments against interracial marriage. There is also an argument mostly from racist groups/churches that the commandment against "adultery" really means "adulteration" (pollution by mixing 2 unlike things together) of blood or lineage, but that usually comes from people who are pretty openly racist and trying to justify it with religion.

As far as IFB & other fundamentalists, it's definitely a cultural thing. Fundamentalism really came of age in the American south in the 1920s, around the same time as the KKK was popular and somewhat mainstream. One of the most prominent IFB leaders at that time, J Frank Norris, was also a major Klan supporter, and there was a lot of cross-promotion (this is also where some of the anti-Catholic rhetoric comes from). Fundamentalism experienced another big resurgence and redefinition in the 1960s, during the most volatile period of the Civil Rights Movement, which cause segregationist ideas to become even more entrenched, as a way of keeping the support of Southern Conservatives (this is one of the reasons Billy Graham was rejected by the fundamentalists who had once supported him).

[Mythicwings]

Fundamentalism experienced another big resurgence and redefinition in the 1960s, during the most volatile period of the Civil Rights Movement, which cause segregationist ideas to become even more entrenched, as a way of keeping the support of Southern Conservatives (this is one of the reasons Billy Graham was rejected by the fundamentalists who had once supported him).

Maybe that's where all this racist stuff is coming from, after Obama was elected, since that was a huge sign that our country finally was past an assumed white-leader thing. It made people with latent racist feeling feel threatened. At least the people yelling the racist stuff since 2008 almost always deny being racist, that's a good thing, right? :D Like their own racism embarrasses them.

[bananacat]

It's another sign that Independent Fundamental Baptist beliefs are tribal rather than theological. God is OUR god who sits in OUR church and looks after OUR people. THOSE people are not OUR people, so they are not our god's people either. If they were God's people, they would look like us.

No different from how the Norse regarded the non-Norse, really. The Elizabethans, even in "cosmopolitan" London, used to mob and beat foreign ambassadors on the same grounds. Recently a man who was smart enough to get into the U.S. military nevertheless chased down and beat an American-born priest of an Orthodox Christian church and dragged him proudly to the cops on the grounds that he was dressed funny, so he had to be a terrorist. Tribalism.

To be fair, the original view of Yahweh was pretty tribal. The Old Testament makes more sense if you realize that the authors generally believed that those other gods existed, only that their tribe shouldn't worship them. The Israelites were Yahweh's chosen people, and he was their chosen god. And they fought like an old married couple who knew they were stuck together. Many times Yahweh lamented that his people were stubborn and disobedient but he was stuck with them anyway. In fact, this is pretty much the theme of the book of Judges.