Fundies Converting to Catholicism

[Rachel333]

One of my favorite fundies announced recently that her family has joined the Roman Catholic Church. She's been talking about it for a while, so it wasn't a surprise, but I thought it was interesting. Usually the protestant fundies think the RCC is the devil incarnate or the whore of Babylon. Are there any other instances of fundies converting?

Here's the post: heldts.blogspot.com/2011/11/in-which-we-cross-tiber.html

If you're looking for another blog to read, her kids are awfully cute. She's in her late 20's and has 7 children 7 and under; four are adopted from Ethiopia and the latest two have Down syndrome. (This is mean, but her adopted kids are way cuter than her biological kids.) She's definitely fundie and homeschools, believes in strict gender roles, thinks birth control is evil, etc., but I think she's slightly more palatable than most.

[Lillybee]

I think that Elizabeth Esther is now a Catholic although she is still having problems with going to church. I think she found great comfort from Mary when either she or one of her kids were ill. Elizabethesther.com. She was fundie or fundielight at one point. I like her, she is bright and writes well.

[Confused_by_religion]

I am not surprised. Many of the official teachings of the Catholic church would delight a fundie because they are so righteous and fundamentalist. The church itself seems to be in backlash mode and in a process of withdrawing from the world's expectations and beliefs. Strict gender roles, yes, birth control evil, yes, so the lady with the seven kids would certainly feel at home in the Catholic church, at least the less liberal wing.

[Avalondaughter]

I am not surprised. Many of the official teachings of the Catholic church would delight a fundie because they are so righteous and fundamentalist. The church itself seems to be in backlash mode and in a process of withdrawing from the world's expectations and beliefs. Strict gender roles, yes, birth control evil, yes, so the lady with the seven kids would certainly feel at home in the Catholic church, at least the less liberal wing.

I have a friend who went from Evangelical Christian to pagan to Jewish (never officially converted, but was working on it) to Catholic and he LOVE orthodoxy. He loves the Latin Mass and priests who celebrate mass with their backs to the congregation and eating fish on Friday whether it's Lent or not.

I think in a chaotic world structure and tradition and rules feel very safe and secure. I think there is a secret hope that by returning to orthodoxy, you will magically bring the world back to the 50s sitcom days. Since people who were born post Vatican 2 don't really know that the olden days weren't as perfect as 50s sitcoms, they really do believe this can happen.

[darareaksmey]

I am not surprised. Many of the official teachings of the Catholic church would delight a fundie because they are so righteous and fundamentalist. The church itself seems to be in backlash mode and in a process of withdrawing from the world's expectations and beliefs. Strict gender roles, yes, birth control evil, yes, so the lady with the seven kids would certainly feel at home in the Catholic church, at least the less liberal wing.

I think it takes a certain kind of fundy to ever be attracted to the Catholic Church. Yes, the RCC has many moral and social positions that fundies would support. But the hierarchy and source of authority of the RCC would not attract fundies who think that God's will is to be found in the literal words of the KJV; I consider these to be fundies who don't wholesale adopt the teachings of any specific human but who see the Bible alone, as God moves them to interpret it, as their spiritual guide. OTOH, fundies who identify strongly with some church's "program," or who feel comfortable following the teachings of a specific religious leader, might be down with the Catholics. I just don't think it would be that easy to move from only the Bible as your source to the Bible, a priest, a bishop, and so on up to the pope--to say nothing of the writings of the early church fathers.

[tinuviel]

I'm a former fundy who converted to Catholicism. I did it because I Catholic notions of revelation, salvation, and such made more sense to me. I was a Calvinist in between because I was excited to find some denomination with an actual body of properly theological literature. Had some problems with Calvinism, eventually starting reading Aquinas and went from there.

I wasn't consciously aiming for extra strict morals or a return to the fifties, but I fell in with a bunch of zealous fundy Catholic converts. (I read at Fisheaters and took it seriously! Now I find almost all of the posters there class-A creepy.) It was easy to do given my own fundy background. Then I got tired of a bunch of immature little dickheads blithering on and on about pants and whether the priest's garb was appropriately shiny, and I chucked the whole fundy bullshit again. I'm still Catholic, but more on the liberal side these days.

I would be really interested to see what percentage of our fundy Catholics are converts or reverts.

[debrand]

I went from fundie to Catholic to agnostic. This might seem strange but Catholicism seemed more liberal to me. The presence of Mary was comforting to me after coming from such a patriarchal mindset. To me, the Catholic view of salvation was softer and more gentle. It made sense. I found the protestant view on saved by faith alone to be a heavy burden.

Catholicism was just a necessary step for me in moving away from Christianity.

As far as the bible being the only source....anyone who reads the bible honestly will be struck at how much it counterdicts itself. There is as much biblical support for Catholic teaching as there is for the various Protestant beliefs.

Many fundamentalist Protestant churches do put a lot of emphasis on obeying authority and respecting the pastor. I've asked Christians why they interpret certain bible verses as they do. Often the explanation is that they are following what their pastor taught them. So, I don't think that there is as difficult a leap from pastor to priest as one would think.

[darareaksmey]

I went from fundie to Catholic to agnostic. This might seem strange but Catholicism seemed more liberal to me. The presence of Mary was comforting to me after coming from such a patriarchal mindset. To me, the Catholic view of salvation was softer and more gentle. It made sense. I found the protestant view on saved by faith alone to be a heavy burden.

Catholicism was just a necessary step for me in moving away from Christianity.

As far as the bible being the only source....anyone who reads the bible honestly will be struck at how much it counterdicts itself. There is as much biblical support for Catholic teaching as there is for the various Protestant beliefs.

Many fundamentalist Protestant churches do put a lot of emphasis on obeying authority and respecting the pastor. I've asked Christians why they interpret certain bible verses as they do. Often the explanation is that they are following what their pastor taught them. So, I don't think that there is as difficult a leap from pastor to priest as one would think.

Oh, I agree that that's true for some Protestants, but by no means for all. In our church, pastors come and pastors go, and sometimes when they go, it's because they've been chased out. In my limited world of mainstream Protestantism, the pastors have pretty much been there to be leaders, but congregants are free to disagree with the pastor's view on anything. Part of the reason I didn't decide to convert to Catholicism after I married is because I didn't see myself being forced to do what the priest told me to. If I went to confession and was told to do this and that as penance, I wanted to be free to disregard the instructions of this person who is, after all, just another human being who puts his pants on one leg at a time. But I'm sure many fundies who are accustomed to having their spiritual lives controlled by other men would not find that to be a problem with converting to RCC.

[MamaJunebug]

I opened this topic with some trepidation and have been, instead, quite pleased with the level of conversation I'm finding here!

As someone raised Lutheran in the '50s, and thus carefully taught about the differenes between us and them, I know more about RCC than the average bear. I also have heard, and observed personally, that the migrations both ways between the RCC and non-denominational churches are pretty fluid.

As folks here already have noted, the RCC is not the monolith one would think, at least not in USA and possibly Canada. I have RCC neighbors in one house who have 8 children, drive miles - passing up at least a dozen RCC churches - to attend Latin Mass only fasting all morning. In another house, the neighbors are all into the guitar Mass and take the Pope's apology to the Jews to mean that Jews go to Heaven.

IOW the individuals, and individual congregations, are all over the place.

Ultraconservative Lutheran pastors I used to listen to had the opinion that RCC and non-denom/fundie have in common this: a devotion to good works as part of salvation. Well, y'know .... I'm beginning to think that the end may justify the means. There may be some folks who wouldn't think of lifting a finger just because "it's the right thing to do" (as my atheist neighbors believe) or because "it's a grateful resposne to what Jesus did for me" (as we Lutherans are taught).

I figure: If people do good works bcz they think it will help save them, it means they are thinking about being saved, and the next life. Possibly that also means they are thinking about God and about their relationship with Her.

My mom converted from RCC after several years of impassioned searching. She said later in life that if the RC's would just let go of that whole Mary thing, they'd be find! :D As I've said before, in attending an RC Bible study, I've come to understand that the contemporary understanding of prayer and the saints - the Blessed Virgin included - is that you ask them to put in a good word for you, not that you pray to them as deities.

Having found myself doing just that some years ago when a Junior JB was seriously ill (I prayed, "Mom! Dad! Up in Heaven, can you put in a word forJunior, please?") just as I asked my friends here on Earth to pray for Junior .... I understand.

This has all been my long-winded way of saying that the RCC isn't homogeneous and neither are its members. If that's the church where they find peace with God and their fellow humans, all the better.

(i really shouldn't post before finishing my first POT of coffee, but I have and I'm too lazy to delete. ;) )

[ppmath]

To me, the Catholic view of salvation was softer and more gentle. It made sense. I found the protestant view on saved by faith alone to be a heavy burden.

I have felt this too, and it's so frustrating because evangelicals/fundies constantly talk about how the "gift" of salvation by faith is free and easy and light. But it just changes the rules from acting rightly to believing rightly. A heavier burden because at least you can be sure sometimes that you're acting rightly, but you can never be sure you are believing rightly. Or at least I couldn't be sure. So on my way out of evangelicalism, I considered Catholicism for that reason.

[MamaJunebug]

Debrand I'm sorry I didn't notice your "burden" comment til ppmath quoted it.

To you both, this just my takeaway, but salvation thru faith is not about "believing the right things" other than accepting it's that Jesus Christ's sacrifice saved us; it's not our faith, it's His love; thus, we are to live lives of service, hope & joy & not worry about whether we're believing Just Right, noe thst we're Doing Enough.

But then at this point in my long life I don't think too deeply. ;). I'm satisfied w the basics.

I post this to attempt to explain what Grace by faith, not works has meant to me, not to chide.

W all love and joy, MJB

[debrand]

Debrand I'm sorry I didn't notice your "burden" comment til ppmath quoted it.

To you both, this just my takeaway, but salvation thru faith is not about "believing the right things" other than accepting it's that Jesus Christ's sacrifice saved us; it's not our faith, it's His love; thus, we are to live lives of service, hope & joy & not worry about whether we're believing Just Right, noe thst we're Doing Enough.

But then at this point in my long life I don't think too deeply. ;). I'm satisfied w the basics.

I post this to attempt to explain what Grace by faith, not works has meant to me, not to chide.

W all love and joy, MJB

In order to respond to you, I'd have to indulge in the kind of theological discussion that would bore everyone. :D

[CanticleoftheTurning]

I have felt this too, and it's so frustrating because evangelicals/fundies constantly talk about how the "gift" of salvation by faith is free and easy and light. But it just changes the rules from acting rightly to believing rightly. A heavier burden because at least you can be sure sometimes that you're acting rightly, but you can never be sure you are believing rightly. Or at least I couldn't be sure. So on my way out of evangelicalism, I considered Catholicism for that reason.

Catholic theology is the reason why I've stayed Catholic, even after growing up in a fundie-lightish Catholic family. Basically, once I found out that regular Catholic doctrine is far more liberal than my dad's interpretation of it, I liked being Catholic much better. I especially appreciate the theology surrounding purgatory far far more hopeful than most Protestant beliefs on salvation. You don't have to be perfect when you die in order to go to heaven.

I also especially love Mary and the Holy Family. I mean, she got knocked up out of wedlock and God told Joseph to stick around and be a step-father. Jesus was an only--so no militant fecundity there. And Mary did boss Jesus around, telling him to make more wine that one time because she thought weddings without enough booze were dreadful! :lol: Also, Mary didn't beat Jesus within an inch of his life with a plumbing line when he was "lost" and then found at the temple.

It's that idea of true unconditional love within the family that appeals to me and helps me feel better about my own fractured family.

I also love the order, the tradition and structure, and the fact that there are reasonable rules and the Church allows people to have their own conscience and think their own thoughts. As silly as it sounds, the extreme slowness with which the Church changes viewpoints or doctrines is a bonus for me. That means it's much harder for anyone to co-opt the faith to suit their own needs, and it makes me feel better that they are actually studying the theological backgrounds on issues when they change anything, instead of being swayed by popular opinion which changes frequently.

I also love the liberal social justice theology. Srsly. It's pretty liberal compared to other churches.

If people want a church that is even more liberal, I would suggest they take a look at the Episcopalian church.

[CanticleoftheTurning]

In order to respond to you, I'd have to indulge in the kind of theological discussion that would bore everyone. :D

LOL, it's when people start doing theological discussions (respectfully) on FJ that I find most interesting!

[cray]

This was one of my gateway fundies: http://marymissiondotblogspot.com

If you look back through her archives she begins being sold on patriarchy, stay-at-home mothers and daughters, and mostly blogging about crafts and the children. She returned to Catholicism a couple of years ago, and now she has some really interesting theological entries and apologetics. There's also some fairly dramalicious headship/submissive wife drama on her blog too.

This is my first-time post, but I'm a long-time lurker (from when Emily was straining her dinner through an old skirt!) so I don't know if anyone has read her blog already :)

[emmiedahl]

The works vs. faith thing is one of my major objections to Christianity, so I really like that whole aspect of the Catholic Church.

I have not been in a lot of Christian churches, but the RC church and the UU one are the only Christian churches I know of that tell people they are morally obligated to get off their asses and help someone.

I refuse to believe that you can be a shitty person who believes in the right formulation of God and get a better afterlife than Gandhi.

[docmom]

Our Protestant relatives are welcome to attend Mass, but just as we do not receive communion in their churches, they should not receive the Eucharist at Mass. No one, Catholic or Protestant, should receive the Eucharist unless he is in a state of grace and fully united to the Catholic Church. Such unity is impossible for Protestants.

quoted from matriarchofmyhomechurch

This is one of my major problems with the RCC. Yes, protestant fundies believe they are the only way to God (as do all fundamentalists really), but the RCC actually denies entry to one of the fundamental gifts of Christianity to non-Catholics. Most mainline protestant churches have opened communion to all who wish to partake. It broke my heart recently to see the husband of my friend refused communion at her funeral because he was not catholic.

Social justice, works being important etc, that stuff I have no problem with. It's just the exclusion that bugs me.

[Hane]

The works vs. faith thing is one of my major objections to Christianity, so I really like that whole aspect of the Catholic Church.

I have not been in a lot of Christian churches, but the RC church and the UU one are the only Christian churches I know of that tell people they are morally obligated to get off their asses and help someone.

I refuse to believe that you can be a shitty person who believes in the right formulation of God and get a better afterlife than Gandhi.

And this pretty much sums up why I morphed from Roman Catholic to UU. I would have stayed in the RCC, trying hard to believe in the virgin birth and the Resurrection, if not for matters of sexual and marriage equality.

[Hane]

Docmom, I was recently lector at a relative's funeral Mass. The priest asked me to read the obligatory "no Communion for non-Catholics" text. I conveniently forgot.

[Kishiria]

This was one of my gateway fundies: http://marymissiondotblogspot.com

If you look back through her archives she begins being sold on patriarchy, stay-at-home mothers and daughters, and mostly blogging about crafts and the children. She returned to Catholicism a couple of years ago, and now she has some really interesting theological entries and apologetics. There's also some fairly dramalicious headship/submissive wife drama on her blog too.

There's a button asking us to "pray for our exorcists". All this and she's a fake Jew too!

[duplessis3]

Holy moly - the Mary Mission blog! Her husband told her to watch the 300 to be a good wife! (eyes rolling rolling rolling.)

[lizzy]

quoted from matriarchofmyhomechurch

This is one of my major problems with the RCC. Yes, protestant fundies believe they are the only way to God (as do all fundamentalists really), but the RCC actually denies entry to one of the fundamental gifts of Christianity to non-Catholics. Most mainline protestant churches have opened communion to all who wish to partake. It broke my heart recently to see the husband of my friend refused communion at her funeral because he was not catholic.

Social justice, works being important etc, that stuff I have no problem with. It's just the exclusion that bugs me.

You shouldn't be offended. Catholics and protestants have fundamentally different views of the Eucharist. Catholics believe that the Eucharist (aka Holy Communion) is truly the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity made present under the appearances of bread and wine. When you present yourself for Communion and the priest says "The Body of Christ", when the communicant responds "Amen" they are affirming that belief.

Protestants celebrate their version of the sacrament but they believe that it is mearly a symbolic rememberance or in some cases, that consubstantiation occurs (that the Body and Blood exist along side the substance of bread and wine.

Excluding non-Catholics is designed to prevent either intended or unintended sacrilege by those who do not share our belief in Transubstantiation.

[cray]

Oh yeah, she has an exorcism blog too :lol: forgot that one: http://catholicwarfaredotblogspot.com/ You're welcome!

She tells a lot of her backstory in this post: http://marymissiondotblogspot.com/2010/ ... imony.html

[MaryatHome]

I'd have to gently disagree with the ideas that Catholics are tied into strict gender roles. There is no mandate to marry and procreate in order to be holy.....hell, we've even got a system to counteract that idea. Women, professed, single, or married, may do any job to which they feel called with no condemnation. Catholics encourage education for all, including women. Through the centuries, women have been leaders of all kinds, may serve in the highest leadership roles in their communities, and strike out on their own without male 'headship' beyond what every Catholic subscribes to.

In my experience, most of the 'fundie' Catholic practitioners (with some exceptions) are rather culture artifacts, not theological norms.

[Jeff]

You shouldn't be offended. Catholics and protestants have fundamentally different views of the Eucharist. Catholics believe that the Eucharist (aka Holy Communion) is truly the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity made present under the appearances of bread and wine. When you present yourself for Communion and the priest says "The Body of Christ", when the communicant responds "Amen" they are affirming that belief.

Protestants celebrate their version of the sacrament but they believe that it is mearly a symbolic rememberance or in some cases, that consubstantiation occurs (that the Body and Blood exist along side the substance of bread and wine.

Excluding non-Catholics is designed to prevent either intended or unintended sacrilege by those who do not share our belief in Transubstantiation.

I understand and respect the closed table (I attend Roman Catholic Masses frequently and would not receive Communion at one out of respect for the authority of a church's bishops to make the determination of who is eligible), which itself used to be much more common in Protestantism and is well within the rights of any church to practice, but belief in the real presence of our Lord in the Eucharist is far more common among Protestants than Catholics typically believe. Baptists don't believe in it, nor do fundies, but I'd venture that consubstantiation, sacramental union, presence by action of the Holy Spirit, and so forth add up to a more common view than Zwinglian memorialism. When push comes to shove, any distinctions between theories about the mechanics of the sacrament often seem like different ways of phrasing almost the same answer to the same question.