Misogyny And The Church

[MamaJunebug]

Think it’s the first time I started a topic!

Well, in a long time, anyway.

So. Saddleback Church - which is Southern Baptist Convention - ordained 3 women pastors. 
 

A very right-wing, nominally Lutheran radio talk show I listen to very rarely, spent a large chunk of its time spittin’ nails at how this is all — 

—Saddleback trying to stay relevant & newsworthy 

—men-haters trying to destroy the patriarchy

—against not only St. Paul’s, but Jesus’ teachings (they never cited any of Jesus’ teachings except for the fact that His recorded apostles were all men)

—and lest we forget: men-haters out to destroy the patriarchy. 
 

NOT. ONCE. Not ONCE! Did they ever consider the possibility that the 3 women felt the call to pastoral ministry and followed that call, just as they themselves did!

Oh, I didn’t mention:  The two boo-hoo’ers were both called & ordained Lutheran pastors. 
 

Memo to self: Blood pressure stays plenty high without listening to that cretinous show. So:  stop, already.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Coconut Flan

[Cam]

It’s almost as if mysogyny = the conservative church and vice versa. From what I understand, this emphasis on male leadership only and complimentarianism had something of a revival in the 1990s. And it’s ghastly. 

At one point in my life I realized I wanted more from my religion. I had grown enough as a person to reach a point where I was able to ask for more from my faith rather than feign contentment with the ho-hum. To my surprise, in seeking more, over time the blinders fell off my eyes and I saw the patriarchy for all its worth. It was an epiphany and once I saw it, I could never unsee it. I do not call myself a Christian anymore.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Cam

[MamaJunebug]

@Cam, thank you - would you consider discussing with me your journey?  Via direct message, probably? Thank you Just for considering. ❤️ 

[Cam]

19 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

@Cam, thank you - would you consider discussing with me your journey?  Via direct message, probably? Thank you Just for considering. ❤️ 

Thanks for asking. There’s not much to tell. I was raised Catholic but by age 16, no longer attended church. My 20s were rocky and  I found stability and guidance in Biblical principles after being “born again” Later, I married a man but religion wasn’t something we even discussed. Still married, too. I had faith in God but it was a quiet, personal thing and that sufficed for several decades. Then life threw me a few intense curves. In the process of dealing with them. I began realizing how small I’d made myself in order to take care of everyone else. This led me to recognize how I was getting absolutely nothing out my “relationship with God”. Finally addressing some of my own needs, I permitted myself to acknowledge that I wanted and needed more. I thought that within a few weeks God would plant a “renewed spirit” within me. It never came!  I was casual in seeking answers here and there over the next couple years. Then one day while reading a book by Warren Jeff’s own daughter who fled the FDLS cult, something clicked and crystallized in my mind how Christianity was like a watered down version of a religious cult. It was pretty revelatory to me and took a long time to sort through the concept. But that’s when the patriarchy came in to view. 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Cam

[MamaJunebug]

@Cam, thank you so much for sharing, a d your candor. I really appreciate your generosity in telling your story. 
Stay well and thank you, again!

[Cam]

Have you ever read “Dance of the Dissident Daughter” by Sue Mon Kidd? An online summary: 

For years, Sue Monk Kidd was a conventionally religious woman. Then, in the late 1980s, she experienced an unexpected awakening, and began a journey toward a feminine spirituality. With the exceptional storytelling skills that have helped make her name, Kidd tells her very personal story of the fear, anger, healing, and freedom she experienced on the path toward the wholeness that many women have lost in the church. 

I don’t even know how I came across the but it was around the time I was uncovering the patriarchy, and it spoke to the depths of my soul.

The Lutheran pastors you mentioned are running others down to keep themselves elevated. It’s one of the many weapons in the arsenal they use to retain power.They are indignant that their male domination would not be enforced. I won’t put up with strict authority like that. It, to me, is not Christianity. Ot’s just man-made crap. 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Cam

[MamaJunebug]

I’ll request that book from my library! Thank you again. 
My journey is taking some verrry interesting turns these days.  The Monk Kidd book suggestion seems particularly apropos!

❤️ 

[Cam]

The book was written in the 1990s yet is still very relevant today. I read it about 7 or 8 years ago. I get most of my books from the library, too, which is where I borrowed Dance of the Dissident Daughter. After reading it, I bought a copy of to refer to from time to time. I(I rarely buy books).

I’d be interested in hearing about your journey as well, if you would want to share.

[Cam]

Even tho I have what I call “evolved” from Christianity, I still respect the religious beliefs of others. (Well, to a point. I’m against cults). There will always be believers.  I’m not gong to personally attack people for their faith or try to convince then they’re wrong. I can only relay my own experience. If someone would mention how their religion doesn’t permit women in leadership roles, I would casually say “I could never believe in that kind of religion.” But I wouldn’t harp on it or degrade someone about it. I feel doing so only makes a person cling to that religion more.

I keep a list of my favorite quotes that I come across here and there, some of which are about feminism and misogyny. Here is one:

Sister Joan Chittister wrote: “Women have been locked out of full humanity and full participation in religious institutions and society at large. This marginalization of women masquerades as ‘protecting’ them and even ‘exalting’ them. Instead, these attitudes serve to deny the human race the fullness of female gifts and a female perspective on life. As a result, women make up two-thirds of the hungry of this world. And women are two-thirds of the illiterate of this world. And women are two-thirds of the poorest of the poor, because they lack access to the resources and recognition men take for granted. That’s not an accident. That is a policy—one supported by religious institutions that call such discrimination 'women’s place' and 'God’s will.'”

Edited May 22, 2021 by Cam

[louisa05]

Read Beth Allison Barr’s The Making of Biblical Womanhood.

It’s a historical look at how patriarchy came to be the dominant theology in most of Christianity. Hint: it didn’t exactly start that way...

[Cam]

2 hours ago, louisa05 said:

Read Beth Allison Barr’s The Making of Biblical Womanhood.

It’s a historical look at how patriarchy came to be the dominant theology in most of Christianity. Hint: it didn’t exactly start that way...

I already have a hold placed on it at the library! Yes, I know much of the Bible has been revised, parts eliminated, reinterpreted, ect.

Btw, I don’t want to come across as holier than thou. While I wouldn’t degrade someone personally for their beliefs, when I’m among people who see the patriarchy and misogyny of religion, I will certainly express my loathing of such oppression and call it out for what it’s worth.

Here’s another quote: Andrea Dworkin wrote, 

Quote

Many women, I think, resist feminism because it is an agony to be fully conscious of the brutal misogyny which permeates culture, society, and all personal relationships.

 

[Cults-r-us]

On 5/15/2021 at 10:12 AM, MamaJunebug said:

Think it’s the first time I started a topic!

Well, in a long time, anyway.

So. Saddleback Church - which is Southern Baptist Convention - ordained 3 women pastors. 
 

A very right-wing, nominally Lutheran radio talk show I listen to very rarely, spent a large chunk of its time spittin’ nails at how this is all — 

—Saddleback trying to stay relevant & newsworthy
 

 

Maybe they can hire Beth Moore.

[Cartmann99]

In case the font is too small for you to read:

Spoiler

 

[neuroticcat]

Just have to post this so where on FJ because it pisses me off so much. This theobro went viral yesterday and ate up the attention for it. 

 

[danvillebelle]

Dear Theobro,

There is no reason whatsoever for you to think that you have one quantum particle of a right to tell any living woman on this planet, christian or not, what she can or cannot wear and post on social media of her own free will.  

-ex-christian who is so damn sick of the weakness of "men" like you

ETA: go read the comments on that thread, there are some choice memes and replies.  I am cackling. 

Edited February 12, 2022 by danvillebelle

[clueliss]

So the SBC convention is going on this week, and even though I’m not Baptist at all, my Twitter feed has a bologna up because I follow certain progressive Christianity and deconstructing topics.

 

and even though I’m not Baptist at all, my Twitter feed has a bologna up because I follow certain progressive Christianity and deconstructing topics.

 

Add the SPC officially. kicked out two churches for having women pastors.  One of them being high profile, saddleback church in California headed by Rick Warren. And he has been very very vocal all over Twitter this week.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/southern-baptists-vote-expel-two-churches-led-women-pastors-rcna89282

Edited June 15, 2023 by clueliss

[clueliss]

Well this one's intriguing.

Looks like elevation Church is leaving the SBC. It get a guess. This is fallout from the recent SBC nonsense from their convention.

 

[47of74]

The Vatican is whining after a French court ruled against a high ranking cardinal in the dismissal of a nun from a religious order...

Quote

The Holy See said Saturday it formally protested to France after a court there ruled that a former high-ranking Vatican official was liable for what the court determined to be the wrongful dismissal of a nun from a religious order.

The Lorient tribunal on April 3 ruled in favor of the nun, Sabine de la Valette, known at the time as Mother Marie Ferréol. The court issued a scathing denunciation of the secretive process the Vatican used to kick her out of the order, the Dominicans of the Holy Spirit, after an internal investigation.

The case is highly unusual, because it represented a secular civilian court essentially determining that the Vatican’s in-house canonical procedures grossly violated the nun’s fundamental rights.

In a statement Saturday, the Vatican said it had formally protested to the French embassy that it had received no notification of any such verdict, but that the ruling nevertheless represented a “grave violation” of the right to religious freedom.