Challenger Truthers are a Thing

[Cleopatra7]

I’m becoming increasingly convinced that there’s just nothing in this world that everyone can agree on. I would have thought that molestation was enough to end the reality careers of the Duggars and Mama June. Turns out it’s not. I also would have thought that we could all agree that driving drunk with children in the backseat is a bad idea, but someone in the RJ Sproul Jr. thread thinks otherwise. And now I find out that some people think the 1986 Challenger accident was a hoax:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/challenger.asp

https://fellowshipoftheminds.com/2015/04/30/are-the-crew-members-of-1986-space-shuttle-challenger-still-alive/

I guess if you think the moon landing was faked, this is the logical next step, but it still boggles the mind that anyone could think that an event that was witnessed on live tv and resulted in a major public embarrassment for NASA would have been faked. What positive good would NASA or the federal government in general have received from faking a space shuttle accident? The mind boggles. I have no idea how many people believe this nonsense, but given how popular Alex Jones and his ilk are, one should never underestimate the eagerness of some people to believe in dumb stuff.

[OtterRuletheWorld]

I’m becoming increasingly convinced that there’s just nothing in this world that everyone can agree on. I would have thought that molestation was enough to end the reality careers of the Duggars and Mama June. Turns out it’s not. I also would have thought that we could all agree that driving drunk with children in the backseat is a bad idea, but someone in the RJ Sproul Jr. thread thinks otherwise. And now I find out that some people think the 1986 Challenger accident was a hoax:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/challenger.asp
https://fellowshipoftheminds.com/2015/04/30/are-the-crew-members-of-1986-space-shuttle-challenger-still-alive/
I guess if you think the moon landing was faked, this is the logical next step, but it still boggles the mind that anyone could think that an event that was witnessed on live tv and resulted in a major public embarrassment for NASA would have been faked. What positive good would NASA or the federal government in general have received from faking a space shuttle accident? The mind boggles. I have no idea how many people believe this nonsense, but given how popular Alex Jones and his ilk are, one should never underestimate the eagerness of some people to believe in dumb stuff.

Conspiracies happen with everything. It seems crazy, but I do think people tend to ask more questions than they will ever get the answers to. That alone isn't a bad thing, but when it reaches crazy levels.

As with the moon landing, people believe what was broadcasted on TV was faked and things filmed in studios. Or something like that.

Of course, once in awhile, a conspiracy will turn out to be true, so people cling to these things as examples.

[Beermeet]

It's amazing how quicly the recent Vegas shooting had those "false flags" videos up.  24 hours at best.  People believe anything these days.  It's a bad trend.  Fake news is now real news.

[JMarie]

Because they've grown bored with all the current conspiracy theories, they shimmy back to the '80s for something to latch onto?  

 

[Cleopatra7]

4 hours ago, Beermeet said:

Fake news is now real news.

The problem is that everyone feels entitled to their own “alternative facts,” and if enough people believe in these falsehoods, then it can become a movement and do real damage (eg climate change denial, creationism, birtherism, extreme Waco trutherism in the 1990s). I think more people believe in a flat earth in 2017 than those who did in 1317.

[VelociRapture]

If people were capable of viewing the photos of terrified and grieving Sandy Hook families learning their loved ones were killed and STILL manage to believe that was a hoax... I mean, nothing surprises me at this point. Nothing.

(I know families who lost loved ones at Sandy Hook and I’m connected by marriage to one. Nothing pisses me off more than Sandy Hook hoaxers. My heart really goes out to the Challenger families and their loved ones. No one should have to deal with such stupidity.)

[smittykins]

I’ve read that there are those who believe that Elvis’s Army hitch was faked on a Hollywood soundstage, so I guess anything’s possible 

[Georgiana]

I ran across someone who tried to tell me they were "entitled to believe what they wanted" with regards to atrocities committed by Communist regimes.  For the record, I am largely an admirer of Mao, VERY much an admirer of many of the qualities of the CCCP, and found living in a communist country to be far more pleasant than the US.  So I'm not some rabid anti-Red.  

But these things happened.  And if you are going to support Communism, you need to address them.  

This person tried to tell me that it was all anti-Commie propaganda.  When I noted that many Communist regimes still in power had both addressed and admitted to the events, confessed their involvement in them, and confirmed the death toll, she told me she was entitled to believe what she wanted.

I told her it was her right as an American to be wrong and sound like a moron, but that in that case, she shouldn't be getting all in a huff when someone told her she was wrong and sounded like a moron.  

Edit: I should have told her what would happen if she tried to spout that sort of nonsense in a communist country where she would NOT be entitled to wrong beliefs, but I was sick of talking to her.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Georgiana

[Glasgowghirl]

My 11 year old nephew asked me a few weeks ago if any space shuttles had crashed, I showed him some of the news footage of the Challenger disaster and explained to him that some people believed it was a hoax. His exact reply was, it was live on TV and people were sitting watching it go up, how can you fake that. People get drawn into wild conspiracy theories without thinking about the actual probability of people escaping it alive, the reason NASA didn't have ejector seats or parachutes on board was they knew in the event of a disaster the crew wouldn't survive the impact to earth even with parachutes.  

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think the conspiracy theorist mentality is brought about because sometimes things just happen in ways that are hard for people to understand.

Why are there people on Earth who would decide to detonate a bomb in a building, go on a shooting spree or kill children? Its easier to think of some big shady conspiracy where its all fake, and not that there are a lot of people out there, maybe even people you know, who might become radicalised online and join a terrorist group, or be planning a mass shooting, or be a serial killer. The world seems safer (somehow) when only the reptilian lizard monsters who run the government want to kill us all, instead of anyone, anywhere, even the person you just passed on the street.

Why are there natural disasters, like hurricanes, fires, earthquakes? Its nature, but its easier to blame some shady conspiracy group with their weather control machine...you cant get angry at nature, but you can get angry at a shady conspiracy group.

Its the same with medical stuff and the whole "Big Pharma is creating medicine that makes you sick, so you become a repeat customer". Its someone to blame-especially if they aim it at confused parents of a child recently diagnosed with something and desperate to find out why, but the answers they are getting from their doctor isn't good enough. They don't want to blame genetics, or that nobody really knows why, they want answers and they want someone to blame and something to do about it. Now if they believe its vaccines or whatever, they can get mad at Big Pharma with a bunch of their friends, and they feel like they are in control because they can spread that misinformation they found on the internet and feel that will stop other people having the same fate (but it wont).

That, mixed in with a distrust of the government. Unfortunately corruption does happen. The government seems to screw over the poor while the rich benefit. The president admitted that he sexually assaulted women and still got elected. The racism in the police force means that black people are punished more severely for crimes than white people, and also this is leading to innocent people being shot by cops. It is terrible that people have to pay so much for healthcare and end up in poverty to get their medical needs met.

It also makes people feel special. They can see themselves as smart, some kind of special person part of some top secret club that knows nothing in the world is real, so they can look down on everyone else as being brainwashed sheep ignorant of the truth.

The thing is, when you believe one conspiracy, youre also more likely to believe more. Well, if the government is hiding the cure for cancer, what else are they hiding, so maybe this guy on the internet saying that the Earth is flat is on to something. There's also a lot of reinforcement of this, because the internet can allow fake news and conspiracy theories to thrive. Someone can easily join Facebook groups and internet forums, read nothing but the "approved, trustworthy" sources and watch a bunch of conspiracy YouTube videos carefully selected to reinforce the views. Its like an echo chamber, and it reinforces their existing beliefs, and it also adds new ones that fit with the "conspiracy".

It becomes almost like a cult too, with an answer to write off any proof that the conspiracy theory is wrong. Any scientific papers that disprove it are obviously lies because all the scientists are lizard monsters too. All newspapers are wrong because the secret society that rules the world also controls the media. Anyone who disagrees is either brainwashed or a shill for the government. There's no place for questioning, questioning is discouraged, anyone who encourages you to question is also bad.

I got into all sorts of new agey stuff when I was a teenager, I thought I was an Indigo Child. There was a lot of conspiracy theories and stuff in those spaces, and the more I read, the less I believed as it all sounded like nonsense and the more I questioned I just couldn't find the answers in it, I found the answers in science and scepticism, and those answers were that the conspiracy didn't exist.

[47of74]

Good God.  I suppose all these Challenger Truthers somehow think what happened to Challenger was somehow President Obama's fault.  

[Buzzard]

I blame social media.  These days any whackadoo can write an article or make statements and it gets shared by millions of people who are "outraged" quickly.  There is no research, no critical thinking, no questioning what the author's motives may be - its all just OUTRAGE.  Its so easy for people to write something, especially something in the past, only tell half the story, and have it hit eyeballs around the globe.  Once you have beaten down the public's expectation that the media/articles be vetted and truthful, its really easy to convince sheeple that the Challenger crew was replaced by stuffed dummies and they're currently living with Elvis and Cookie Monster on a ship off of Aruba.

[Glasgowghirl]

Challenger happened a year before I was born so I don't remember it but given the fact it was shown widely on TV due to Krista McAlliffe being the first civilian in space, I doubt NASA would have planned a hoax around it, they were devastated when the disaster happened, if was a conspiracy nut I'd be more inclined to question what really happened to Columbia more than Challenger, that happened when the space shuttles were not in the news as much and easier to hoax. Not saying I don't believe what happened to Columbia, I do but that would have been easier to fake. The families of the Challenger victim's must be so pissed to see people claiming their loved ones faked their deaths.

[47of74]

31 minutes ago, Glasgowghirl said:

Challenger happened a year before I was born so I don't remember it but given the fact it was shown widely on TV due to Krista McAlliffe being the first civilian in space, I doubt NASA would have planned a hoax around it, they were devastated when the disaster happened, if was a conspiracy nut I'd be more inclined to question what really happened to Columbia more than Challenger, that happened when the space shuttles were not in the news as much and easier to hoax. Not saying I don't believe what happened to Columbia, I do but that would have been easier to fake. The families of the Challenger victim's must be so pissed to see people claiming their loved ones faked their deaths.

I was in 5th grade when Challenger was lost.  A small group of us were with another teacher in a separate room working on a reading assignment but they brought us back in to the main room so we could watch the news in the aftermath of the explosion.  Prior to Challenger shuttle launches were to the point where school didn't turn on the TV every time one was launched and just had us go about our normal activities. 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

I was in high school. I didn't see it live, so when a friend told me about the disaster in gym class, I didn't want to believe her. I hoped it was one of those weird rumors that happen in high school; that even if something happened to the shuttle, the rumor had exaggerated it. I remember that there was so much pain over the death of the crew. It seems so callous to say that it was all a hoax.

[Dandruff]

I was working when it happened and people were, quite appropriately, shocked and saddened by the news.  We wanted to know the cause.  There was sympathy for the families of the astronauts.  People who were actually at the launch were interviewed.  And I don't recall that there was a single nitwit, locally or otherwise, suggesting it was a hoax.

[SnazzyNazzy]

2 hours ago, 47of74 said:

I was in 5th grade when Challenger was lost.  A small group of us were with another teacher in a separate room working on a reading assignment but they brought us back in to the main room so we could watch the news in the aftermath of the explosion.  Prior to Challenger shuttle launches were to the point where school didn't turn on the TV every time one was launched and just had us go about our normal activities. 

I know how old you are now...lol. I was in the 5th grade when it happened too, so that's how I know...lol. We watched it live in Mr. Murphey's class (he was my science and history teacher). I distinctly remember that day, not only because of the accident, but because I had broken my glasses the day before, so couldn't see shit. The whole class just gasped when it happened, save for one lone girl, who was blind as a bat, piping up "I can't see! What happened I cant see!" Every kid in the class started crying, even the teacher did, save for the lone girl who was blind as a bat, who was still trying to figure out what was going on. Plus, I'm not going to lie, seeing as how I was just a 5th grader at the time, I was kinda bummed I didn't get to see it. 

Why people are saying it is a hoax is beyond me. I love me a good conspiracy theory, but some things are just blatantly NOT worthy of a conspiracy theory, like this. Granted I was 10 when this happened, and my only pressing concern at the time was why Jem was ok with her boyfriend being a douche and dumb as a box of rocks (seriously though, her boyfriend didn't know Jerrica was Jem, but was ok with her boyfriend smooching Jem even though he didn't know it was Jerrica. And how did he not know that they were the same people? Jerrica was there, slipped away, and BAM there's Jem. Dude was a moron).

 

[anniebgood]

I was in my office working when one of the software designers came running downstairs saying the shuttle had exploded. Those were the days before you could run to CNN and watch it on your computer. Most of us had radios in our cubicles so we turned on the local (KNX) news station. It was a strange day and the whole week was subdued. 

With all those witnesses and videos there is no friggin way it was faked. I've read the reports, read the official documents about the recovery of the astronauts and the only thing I can say is that I hope to all that's holy, that they were dead when they hit the water. 

I suppose people believe the Columbia explosion was made up as well. 

[47of74]

I was in my office working when one of the software designers came running downstairs saying the shuttle had exploded. Those were the days before you could run to CNN and watch it on your computer. Most of us had radios in our cubicles so we turned on the local (KNX) news station. It was a strange day and the whole week was subdued. 
With all those witnesses and videos there is no friggin way it was faked. I've read the reports, read the official documents about the recovery of the astronauts and the only thing I can say is that I hope to all that's holy, that they were dead when they hit the water. 
I suppose people believe the Columbia explosion was made up as well. 

It would not surprise me if there were. People parrot all sorts of stupid shit.

[SnazzyNazzy]

1 hour ago, 47of74 said:

9 hours ago, anniebgood said:

I was in my office working when one of the software designers came running downstairs saying the shuttle had exploded. Those were the days before you could run to CNN and watch it on your computer. Most of us had radios in our cubicles so we turned on the local (KNX) news station. It was a strange day and the whole week was subdued. 
With all those witnesses and videos there is no friggin way it was faked. I've read the reports, read the official documents about the recovery of the astronauts and the only thing I can say is that I hope to all that's holy, that they were dead when they hit the water. 
I suppose people believe the Columbia explosion was made up as well. 

Read more  

It would not surprise me if there were. People parrot all sorts of stupid shit.

Personally, I think the worst are the "flat-earthers"  I even put them ahead of all the creepy false flag people. While I think the false flag people are generally batshit, I DO have enough anarchist in me, to not put it past our government, to do something that heinous (not 9/11 heinous, but small scale heinous).

[unsafetydancer]

The ones I hate most are the bogus medical cure guys. OK so the pharmaceutical industry is far from perfect but when you tell people that they should use cannabis/lemon juice/bleach to treat their cancer rather than chemotherapy it's pretty obvious that some people will die from not taking the actually effective treatment. 

Don't even get me started on the "vaccines cause autism" brigade, I have multiple, personal reasons to hate that bunch of lies.

ETA: are there actually people who STILL believe the earth is flat? Dudes we have actually been to space and seen that the earth is round WTF?

Edited October 18, 2017 by unsafetydancer
adding

[ILoveJellybeans]

Flat Earthers legitimately believe that nobody has ever been to space, it is all lies and all astronauts are part of the conspiracy theory, and all pictures of the Earth from space are faked by NASA....for some reason. Its the silliest conspiracy theory ever. All the other ones have a motive for the shady secret society/lizard monsters or whatever, like making more money, depopulation, brainwashing or to encourage people to accept political decisions like going to war or stricter gun control, but there is no reason to hide the shape of the Earth from anyone as the Illuminati Lizard Monsters cannot benefit in any way from that.

[Cleopatra7]

2 hours ago, ILoveJellybeans said:

Flat Earthers legitimately believe that nobody has ever been to space, it is all lies and all astronauts are part of the conspiracy theory, and all pictures of the Earth from space are faked by NASA....for some reason. Its the silliest conspiracy theory ever. 

But modern telecommunications are only possible with man made satellites. Do flat earthers believe that no humans have ever been into space but satellites have, or that nothing than originated on earth ever entered orbit? I’m already giving this way more thought than it deserves.

[Glasgowghirl]

On 17/10/2017 at 8:47 PM, anniebgood said:

I suppose people believe the Columbia explosion was made up as well. 

I made a point that if any was going to be a hoax it would have been Columbia given that people were watching Challenger and Columbia happened when fewer people cared about the space shuttle, Columbia exploded during reentry not take off as well. I don't believe any of them are hoaxes NASA's reputation was hurt by both tragedies and they would never fake anything to damage the reputation they have. They made mistakes during both missions that lead to the deaths of 14 people. They wouldn't be broadcasting that if it wasn't true, but conspiracy theorists lack logic to get that.

[Cleopatra7]

4 hours ago, Glasgowghirl said:

I made a point that if any was going to be a hoax it would have been Columbia given that people were watching Challenger and Columbia happened when fewer people cared about the space shuttle, Columbia exploded during reentry not take off as well. I don't believe any of them are hoaxes NASA's reputation was hurt by both tragedies and they would never fake anything to damage the reputation they have. They made mistakes during both missions that lead to the deaths of 14 people. They wouldn't be broadcasting that if it wasn't true, but conspiracy theorists lack logic to get that.

It’s not true that the American public watched the Challenger disaster as it happened in real time on TV. The only national TV outlet that was filming the launch live was CNN, which was still relatively small and not the ubiquitous presence it is today:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1rDg7S46ijM

(Launch starts at roughly 35 minutes in; the earlier part of the video is interesting just to give you an idea of what else was going on in the world at the same time and shows how different CNN was in 1986 compared to 2017)

Many schools were showing the launch because of the teacher in space angle, so children learned about the disaster before adults did. The big three networks cut into regular programming shortly after the accident using CNN’s footage, because they didn’t have their own. What occurred to Challenger was technically not an explosion, but rather a process of falling apart, as due to the thermodynamic forces acting upon it as the result of the O ring failure. What did explode was the fuel tank, which provided the spectacular fireball that enveloped the shuttle and made it appear like the orbiter itself had exploded.

In many ways, Columbia was a more public disaster than Challenger because it left a debris trail over multiple states, including human remains, whereas the debris of the latter fell into the Atlantic, far from the eyes of the public. It’s amazing that no one on the ground was killed or serious injured by falling debris from Columbia, so I guess that’s a minor consolation. More amateur video of Columbia’s breakup exists than Challenger’s, not only because recording equipment was more ubiquitous in 2003, but also because amateur astronomers were tracking Columbia’s descent via the Internet. A lot about Challenger is still classified, ostensibly to protect the astronauts’ families, while NASA has been fairly upfront about the grisly end for the Columbia astronauts.

/takes off space geek hat