Evangelical Sex, wow, whodathunk

[Swamptribe]

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/2 ... hpt=hp_bn2

Found this article amusing. Gosh, who'd have guessed, even with the pledge, they are having sex anyway.

[debrand]

That’s the implication in the upcoming October issue of an evangelical magazine that claims that young, unmarried Christians are having premarital sex almost as much as their non-Christian peers.

People have always engaged in premarital sex. That isn't going to change. Of course, there will be people who claim that the world has changed but it hasn't. We aren't any worse than our ancestors.

[Marian the Librarian]

It's been repeatedly proven that purity pledges don't work. The "no sex no sex no sex" thing is just one of the ways that fundies/evangelicals have tried to portray themselves as special snowflakes - they breathe the rarefied air of narcissism and grandiosity. In truth, we are all just human beings, with the same needs and desires.

[titus2_4u]

It just leads to people feeling guilty about the purity rings and purity pledges up on their walls. And not communicating well.

[Joykins]

There are 2 things that are different than our ancestors in play here, though:

1. Older age at first marriage, for men and women, by years. Yes, our culture has typically married in the early-mid twenties but now that age is shifting to the late twenties.

2. Evangelicals, unlike "fundies," are well-integrated into the larger culture, and cultural mores don't particularly disapprove of "premarital sex." In the past (even in the 1950s when my parents grew up) there was a strong nice-girls-don't rule that has gone the way of the dodo. Yes, it was a horrible double standard but it did influence behavior.

Also I wouldn't say that "pledges don't work"--it appears to be that strong dedication to remaining chaste (I don't care about actual pledges since so few apparently even remember them :lol: ) kept approximately 8% of never-married evangelical young adults chaste through age 29. That appears to be statistically significant, although it's not a large portion.

[Linnea]

It's been repeatedly proven that purity pledges don't work.

It's also been shown that people who take purity pledges tend not to use protection when they do have sex, on the theory that getting "carried away" is less blameworthy than having premeditated sex. So, purity pledges lead to more unplanned pregnancies and STDs.

[pomology]

This is a really interesting New Yorker article about different views towards sex between those who are socially liberal and socially conservative that came out shortly after the 2008 election.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008 ... ntPage=all

[doe]

It's also been shown that people who take purity pledges tend not to use protection when they do have sex, on the theory that getting "carried away" is less blameworthy than having premeditated sex. So, purity pledges lead to more unplanned pregnancies and STDs.

I believe this. I had a Christian friend who met a guy, swiftly fell for him, and they quickly moved in together. Actually, she moved away with him. Well anyway, not long after this happened she told me she was pregnant. Now she had already been a teen mom twice over, and this was several years later. But she thought if they bought a condom it would be like they actually "planned" to sin. It was better that they "didn't plan teh sex." It made my head spin.

[Letgo]

People have always engaged in premarital sex. That isn't going to change. Of course, there will be people who claim that the world has changed but it hasn't. We aren't any worse than our ancestors.

Yes, just read the Bible. The penalties then were far more harsh than in our society, but it still happened.

And it happened in the 1700s and 1800s, too, during those favorite fundie eras. I googled "illegitimacy rate" for that time period and one article said that while only around 7% of births were to unmarried women, 37% of births after marriage came too soon for those babies to have been conceived after the vows were made. Put together, that makes 44% of babies the result of premarital sex. Since not everyone gets pregnant prior to marriage even though sex is occurring, not waiting must have been a fairly popular activity.

But she thought if they bought a condom it would be like they actually "planned" to sin. It was better that they "didn't plan teh sex." It made my head spin.

I also had a friend like that, but she was Catholic. Since the use of birth control was a sin, according to the Pope, it was better not to sin. I pointed out that the Pope said premaritial sex was a sin, too. But she informed me that since they did not use any type of birth control, the sex was not planned. Apparently, she had sex that just...happened. Totally spontaneous. Not something over which she and her boyfriend could control, you see. Somehow, she did not get pregnant, thank the Lord. But it is soooo frustrating to deal with that idiotic attitude. Talk about denial..

[Kitten]

As Gomer would say, "SUR-prise, SUR-prise, SUR-prise!"

Or Captain Renault, "I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling sex is going on in here!"

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Joykins]

It's also been shown that people who take purity pledges tend not to use protection when they do have sex, on the theory that getting "carried away" is less blameworthy than having premeditated sex. So, purity pledges lead to more unplanned pregnancies and STDs.

Yeah, I had a friend in college who broke up with her boyfriend because, she said, God wanted her to. Then after they broke up they started having unprotected sex. I was all WTF? And they kept this up for a while, it wasn't like it was a 1-time thing. I finally told her that if she didn't do it, I would buy the condoms for her and put them in her desk drawer because it was definitely a fucked up situation and you *really* don't want to get pregnant or a STD in one of those. Fortunately pull and pray works for some people some of the time, because she didn't get pregnant.

[maybeizfundie]

I'm not in the least bit surprised. I remember all the purity pledges when I was a teen, and I remember a good many of my peers and their interesting romantic lives. A known Youth Group attender shared with us all a very lovely, rather sensual poem about spending the evening with his girlfriend in his arms, and she was the pastor's daughter and a very evangelical Evangelical.

otoh, it is perfectly possible to hold to the restrictions of the Christian sexual ethic and chastity. I don't think it has much to do with public pledges and social pressure. It has to be a self-determined personal choice, based on reasoning and not on social pressure.

[Cassandra]

Yeah all my acquaintances in Jr High and High School made that pledge, and of the 20-30 girls I knew only 1 of them actually made it to marriage still a virgin.

[Kitty]

I'm not sure how common the pledges were in high school, but at my high school of 1100, there were at least 30 girls pregnant last year. 30 out of 550. I know 4 who did, three of them I'm sure are sticking to it.

Virginity pledges and rings are bullshit. Virginity itself is complete bullshit made up to control women and girls.

BTW, my school taught abstinence-only sex ed.

[bananacat]

It's also been shown that people who take purity pledges tend not to use protection when they do have sex, on the theory that getting "carried away" is less blameworthy than having premeditated sex. So, purity pledges lead to more unplanned pregnancies and STDs.

The cynical side of me thinks this is part of the plan. For those that break their pledges, at least they tend to get punished so it's win-win for purity promoters.

[Linnea]

I'm not sure how common the pledges were in high school, but at my high school of 1100, there were at least 30 girls pregnant last year. 30 out of 550. I know 4 who did, three of them I'm sure are sticking to it.

Virginity pledges and rings are bullshit. Virginity itself is complete bullshit made up to control women and girls.

BTW, my school taught abstinence-only sex ed.

Guess who waits longer until they become sexually active? According to studies, it's the kids who have comprehensive sex education. Sometimes I wonder if conservatives just ignore that fact because it doesn't fit their worldview, or whether they secretly *want* underage girls to get pregnant.

[flojo]

I don't think it fails for all girls, as was stated, here are the 8% (and Sarah Maxwell).

But without sex ed, the majority are screwed

Edited because I shared tmi

[contrary]

i think the flip side of the problem is that they marry SO YOUNG, and i have to think that a large part of that is related to sex. My husband (raised pentecostal fundy-lite) married his first wife at 21, and he says that was a very large part of the reason why...no great surprise that they didn't work out for the long haul.

[Hane]

There are 2 things that are different than our ancestors in play here, though:

1. Older age at first marriage, for men and women, by years. Yes, our culture has typically married in the early-mid twenties but now that age is shifting to the late twenties.

2. Evangelicals, unlike "fundies," are well-integrated into the larger culture, and cultural mores don't particularly disapprove of "premarital sex." In the past (even in the 1950s when my parents grew up) there was a strong nice-girls-don't rule that has gone the way of the dodo. Yes, it was a horrible double standard but it did influence behavior.

I would add another:

3. Back in the pre-Pill days, there was a very real danger of pregnancy whenever ANYBODY had sex, and unwed mothers were shunned and marginalized in society, so fear of getting pregnant was a HUGE factor in scaring girls away from sexual activity. I know--I was a teen in the '60s, in a state where it used to be illegal to sell contraceptives to unmarried people.

[bananacat]

I would add another:

3. Back in the pre-Pill days, there was a very real danger of pregnancy whenever ANYBODY had sex, and unwed mothers were shunned and marginalized in society, so fear of getting pregnant was a HUGE factor in scaring girls away from sexual activity. I know--I was a teen in the '60s, in a state where it used to be illegal to sell contraceptives to unmarried people.

This is mostly a myth though. People were scared of sex, but that didn't stop them from having it. It just led to dangerous back-alley abortions, shotgun marriages, forcibly taking babies for adoption, and more deaths from certain STDs because people were too embarrassed to get treatment. There was never a golden age when people were so scared that they simply remained abstinent. People had sex anyway, and then suffered for it.

[debrand]

Yes, just read the Bible. The penalties then were far more harsh than in our society, but it still happened.

And it happened in the 1700s and 1800s, too, during those favorite fundie eras. I googled "illegitimacy rate" for that time period and one article said that while only around 7% of births were to unmarried women, 37% of births after marriage came too soon for those babies to have been conceived after the vows were made. Put together, that makes 44% of babies the result of premarital sex. Since not everyone gets pregnant prior to marriage even though sex is occurring, not waiting must have been a fairly popular activity.

When I read Tom Jones by Fielding, I was struck by a statement by one of the characters that the mother of an illegitimate child should be whipped and dragged to a prison called Bridewell(spelling?) Apparently, even harsh punishment didn't keep people from having sex. I doubt that a pledge made before a child is fully aware what they are promising will keep people from having sex.

[emmiedahl]

Premarital sex has always happened. Just ask your grandmother about the saying: "The first baby could come at any time... after that they take about nine months." It is present in some form in almost every culture, because it is true.

[Hane]

This is mostly a myth though. People were scared of sex, but that didn't stop them from having it. It just led to dangerous back-alley abortions, shotgun marriages, forcibly taking babies for adoption, and more deaths from certain STDs because people were too embarrassed to get treatment. There was never a golden age when people were so scared that they simply remained abstinent. People had sex anyway, and then suffered for it.

Hey, all I know was what I lived through, and what my close friends confided about their dating lives. I'm sure there were people who "had sex anyway, and then suffered for it," but I really knew of damn few in my Polish/Italian-Catholic/Baptist community. I'm hardly calling my teen years any kind of "golden age," but girls who chose NOT to be sexually active were not scrutinized and denigrated the way they are now.

[Joykins]

This is mostly a myth though. People were scared of sex, but that didn't stop them from having it. It just led to dangerous back-alley abortions, shotgun marriages, forcibly taking babies for adoption, and more deaths from certain STDs because people were too embarrassed to get treatment. There was never a golden age when people were so scared that they simply remained abstinent. People had sex anyway, and then suffered for it.

They could have been scared enough to go oral, anal, or manual, though. Or pull and pray, which statistically is relatively successful.

[Hane]

Hey, folks, all I know is what the culture was like for teens back when I was one. I'm not trying to be a know-it-all, but, when you've been on the planet for as many decades as I've been, you tend to notice certain changing trends.

FWIW, though, my mom told me that, during WWII, many young women "kissed their boyfriends goodbye--and their morals at the same time." She told me she was horrified when she saw the condoms in my (sailor) dad's wallet during one of their dates. He told her that the guys weren't allowed off the base without them.