Pope Francis Normalizing

[acheronbeach]

1 minute ago, Georgiana said:

Thanks!  I got this guy from the Boyer thread.  Do I know who he is?  No.  But my goodness if I don't want people on here to associate me with the winning combination of that hairline, that neck ruff, and that smile.  

However, my girl and traditional avatar Davia is back and giving him a run for his money.  And you never know when Jill Rodrigues will decide to bless facebook with another selfie session for Plexus!

Oh, that's Gabe, husband of the middle Boyer sister (Brigid).  He recently held a costume ball at his home.  He and his wife dressed up from Wives and Daughters by Elizabeth Gaskell (I think he was supposed to be Roger), but some people noted that he has a striking resemblance to Mr. Collins from P & P. 

He also occasionally comments on the Boyer thread.  I don't mind him. 

[Palimpsest]

7 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

Thanks!  I got this guy from the Boyer thread.  Do I know who he is?  No.

I only noticed Gabe, Mr Collins, Roger this morning as your avatar this morning.  He's a member and still around so perhaps you should change it back to Davia.  I'd rather look at her anyway.

 

[Georgiana]

13 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

I only noticed Gabe, Mr Collins, Roger this morning as your avatar this morning.  He's a member and still around so perhaps you should change it back to Davia.  I'd rather look at her anyway.

 

Oh Goodness!  I would never DARE to blaspheme and claim to be the One True Gabe, judger of True History, and the Defender of Outdated Texts!  My word, how could I?  I have a college degree from an accredited institution!  That means I have been soaked in lies and know less than ever!

[Palimpsest]

@Georgiana, .

Davia and her 'tude is so much cuter.

[Georgiana]

1 minute ago, Palimpsest said:

@Georgiana, .

Davia and her 'tude is so much cuter.

Watching her openly express her disdain for her father's needless and over-staged photoshoots is a true delight.  When a two (?) year old knows this is freaking garbage, you can safely assume NO ONE is convinced.  I like to think God is trying to use Davia to inspire David to get some class or taste or just develop the ability to look natural.  

The day her expressions fade into a fake smile that doesn't reach her eyes, I may actually cry.  

[Palimpsest]

2 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

The day her expressions fade into a fake smile that doesn't reach her eyes, I may actually cry.

Yes, me too.  I don't want to see the light fade out of those eyes.

[SamiKatz]

I went out for coffee/tea a few weeks ago with a former priest.  He said he left as he wanted to get married.  I wonder if he would go back if the rules changed.

[47of74]

6 hours ago, SamiKatz said:

I went out for coffee/tea a few weeks ago with a former priest.  He said he left as he wanted to get married.  I wonder if he would go back if the rules changed.

In the Catholic church once someone becomes a priest they are a priest for the rest of their lives.  They can be dismissed from the clerical state but still are considered priests.  They cannot do things reserved for priests or wear the uniform.  The only thing they can legitimately do is  offer sacramental absolution to someone in danger of death.  Some times it's done as punishment for a serious offense (ad poenam) such as sexual abuse or other serious offenses - both religious and temporal.  Most of the time it's done at the priest's own request (pro gratia) for a grave personal reason - usually marriage.

I imagine some of the voluntarily lacized probably would want to become active priests again if the rules changed and they could be married and priests at the same time.  It would be a question of if the Pope would allow them to resume their roles.  For a laicized priest to be reinstated it takes approval from the Pope.  Then it would take permission from the diocesan bishop for them to work as a priest in the diocese.  I imagine some of the more of the more liberal (and I use that relatively speaking) bishops would be glad to take these priests back.  Lord High Ray and those like him would probably tell those guys to get lost.

[47of74]

This Missouri catholic student really hit it out of the park here...

aplus.com/a/-student-catholic-high-school-homophobic-homework-assignment-gay-marriage

Quote

The student, who goes by the name averagesmurf on Reddit, says the assignment was for his required Morality class. He explains, "The assignment is to write a 'Summa Theologica' style paper where you present a 'moral dilemma', which is where you give the objections to church teaching and then the replies from the church. The exact words my teacher said in class were that you have to provide the church teaching to 'show and prove that the church's position is right.'"

But before the students started their papers, the teacher held a larger discussion addressing an array of moral issues. "When the issue of 'why is the church so against gay marriage' came up, I asked for the little 'talking ball' and just started going for like 15 minutes on how the Bible isn't a condemnation of homosexuality and in all ways affirms love rather than hate and how god doesn't make mistakes when he makes us, we are who we are," the student recalls. 

The teacher rebutted with an argument quoting Aquinas on natural law, but the student persisted and held his ground, even noting that he was "applauded" by many students for his stance. The next time the class met, the student says the previously open discussion was forbidden in favor of screening an anti-gay video opposing homosexuality in Catholicism. 

The student, who lives with his devout Catholic grandparents and identifies as bisexual, then spent the next four months working on his paper, which is titled "Gay Marriage Is Fabulous". The end result is a thoughtful and well-written 127-page argument defending marriage equality and refuting claims the Bible is, in fact, against it.

 

[AlwaysExcited]

God bless, dear fellow bisexual with the right attitude. Wish I could like this more than once.

[feministxtian]

I tried reading it, I couldn't get past the grammar mistakes...(catholic HS grad here)

[47of74]

The Vatican has fired a shot across the bow of US right wing Catholics

Quote

Two close associates of Pope Francis have accused American Catholic ultraconservatives of making an alliance of “hate” with evangelical Christians to back President Trump, further alienating a group already out of the Vatican’s good graces.

The authors, writing in a Vatican-vetted journal, singled out Stephen K. Bannon, Mr. Trump’s chief strategist, as a “supporter of an apocalyptic geopolitics” that has stymied action against climate change and exploited fears of migrants and Muslims with calls for “walls and purifying deportations.”

The article warns that conservative American Catholics have strayed dangerously into the deepening political polarization in the United States. The writers even declare that the worldview of American evangelical and hard-line Catholics, which is based on a literal interpretation of the Bible, is “not too far apart’’ from jihadists.

It is not clear if the article, appearing in La Civiltà Cattolica, received the pope’s direct blessing, but it was extraordinary coming from a journal that carries the Holy See’s seal of approval. There has apparently been no reprimand from the pope, who is not shy about disciplining dissenters, and La Civiltà Cattolica’s editor has promoted the article nearly every day since it was published in July.

Here's the article in question

That ought to get the right wingers in the church good and steamed up.

[Howl]

Wowza--calling out Steve Bannon.  Comparison to jihadists. Could the Pope be using this journalist as a proxy for his thinking on the matter, without overtly beating up on conservative American Catholics?

[laPapessaGiovanna]

It was about time! The RCC in Europe is politically very active pushing for acceptance of refugees and economic migrants. It also has a very leftist approach on economy and some social issues such as welfare and healthcare (except reproductive rights). They couldn't ignore American conservatives and keep a straight face any longer now that #45 put all kinds of cockroaches back in the limelight.

[47of74]

9 hours ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

It was about time! The RCC in Europe is politically very active pushing for acceptance of refugees and economic migrants. It also has a very leftist approach on economy and some social issues such as welfare and healthcare (except reproductive rights). They couldn't ignore American conservatives and keep a straight face any longer now that #45 put all kinds of cockroaches back in the limelight.

The American conservative wing of the Roman church has done so much to damage the church and drive people away.  Myself included.  It was way past time for the Vatican to face facts, that the conservatives were not bringing about a new golden age of the church, but were instead driving committed Catholics who would have stayed in the church away.  Some of them swam across the Thames like I did, while some left organized religion altogether.  The problem of people leaving in droves was hidden somewhat over the years because the exodus was being made up for by immigrants - especially Hispanics who tended to be Catholic.

 

[Howl]

26 minutes ago, 47of74 said:

Some of them swam across the Thames

Does that refer to becoming Anglican or Episcopalian? 

[Cleopatra7]

The thing that conservative American Catholics don't understand is that some flavor of social democracy is the default political position in every other Western country. The unholy marriage of extreme economic libertarianism and social authoritarianism is only a thing in the US. Even JPII and BXVI, who are cast as "conservative popes" said the exact same things about capitalism and the environment that Francis has, but these comments were brushed aside because they didn't fit into what American conservatives considered "conservative" (recall that JPII and BXVI were against both Iraq wars). I'm not sure why white American conservative Catholics expect a transnational, multiethnic Church to completely reflect their values, other than the fact that they think that being white, American, and conservative is the highest thing one should aspire towards.

[47of74]

Does that refer to becoming Anglican or Episcopalian? 

Yes it does. In US case, an Episcopalian.

Of course some of ex Catholics went to other denominations.

[PennySycamore]

I'm on of those Catholics that didn't swim the Thames, but left organized religion altogether.  (And to think that I was going to be a sister at one point in my life.)  

I see that Reverend William Barber is tearing into the teabangelicals.  Good on Rev. Barber and these guys associated with Pope Francis!

[NakedKnees]

Dude, I have never heard this "swam the Thames" metaphor before but I LOVE it. More fun information:

http://www.dictionaryofchristianese.com/swim-the-tiber-swim-the-bosphorus-canterbury-trail/

On topic.... nice!!! I really hope I see the American Catholic church listen and stop pandering to the evangelical powerhouse in my lifetime.

[47of74]

And of course the right wing is all butt hurt about this.

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/08/here-is-how-badly-conservatives-freaked-out-over-the-vaticans-warning-about-the-christian-right/
 

Quote

It’s not surprising that the apparently Vatican-approved denouncement of the conservative Catholic-Christian alliance that has come to dominate U.S. politics ruffled some feathers. What is surprising is the sheer amount of denial and obfuscation that the article in La Civiltà Cattolic by Antonio Spadaro and the Marcelo Figueroa has engendered.

[47of74]

Some Catholic fundies had to display their butt hurt over Francis by sending him a letter accusing him of being a heretic. 

Quote

In a 25-page letter delivered to Francis last month and provided Saturday to The Associated Press, the 62 signatories issued a "filial correction" to the pope — a measure they said hadn't been employed since the 14th century.

The letter accused Francis of propagating seven heretical positions concerning marriage, moral life and the sacraments with his 2016 document "The Joy of Love" and subsequent "acts, words and omissions."

The initiative follows another formal act by four tradition-minded cardinals who wrote Francis last year asking him to clarify a series of questions, or "dubbia," they had about his 2016 text.

None of the signatories of the new letter is a cardinal, and the highest-ranking churchman listed is actually someone whose organization has no legal standing in the Catholic Church: Bishop Bernard Fellay, superior of the breakaway Society of St. Pius X. Several other signatories are well-known admirers of the old Latin Mass which Fellay's followers celebrate.

If I was Francis I'd tell these idiots to go perform intimate acts upon themselves in traffic. 

[anjulibai]

Yes, so horrible that Francis wants to the Church to practice compassion towards people that don't follow the rules to a T. 

[47of74]

5 hours ago, anjulibai said:

Yes, so horrible that Francis wants to the Church to practice compassion towards people that don't follow the rules to a T. 

And these "experts" who have the temerity to criticize Francis ought to actually look inside the bible they so often thump.  Especially Matthew 23. 

[Cleopatra7]

Because FJ deserves to read it straight from the horse's behind, this is the link to Rorate Caeli, the blog (which is famous in trad circles) where the petition originated:

https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2017/09/CORRECTION.html?m=1

Comments appear to be off, presumably because the signatories want to make it clear to outsiders that they are serious theologians and not a bunch of Internet kooks, something that wouldn't work if you have posters ranting about how the real Pope Paul VI was kidnapped and held hostage in the Vatican by Jews, communists, and freemasons.