The Democratic National Convention

[RoseWilder]

7 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

The SO and I were talking about who is worse and we can't decide. But everytime someone tells me I "have to" vote Hillary, it makes me want to vote Trump. And I HATE Trump. 

Really? You would vote for Trump because someone told you to vote for Clinton? Why would you waste your vote on spite? 

[Maggie Mae]

5 minutes ago, RoseWilder said:

Really? You would vote for Trump because someone told you to vote for Clinton? Why would you waste your vote on spite? 

Because I'm pissed off, and I am SICK AND TIRED of people telling me what I "have to" do. I don't believe that Trump is the anti-christ or the next coming of Hitler. I don't believe that Hillary is all that much better. She is JUST as privileged, probably just as racist (based on policies from the original Clinton administration) but she hides it better. I prefer honesty to dishonesty. 

And I also would never vote for either of these clowns, but I'm tempted because I HATE HATE HATE it when people tell me I "have" to do anything. 

Also I live in a state that has never swung blue, and my vote doesn't count anyway. The election is over before our polls even close. 

[Natalie22]

4 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

Because I'm pissed off, and I am SICK AND TIRED of people telling me what I "have to" do. I don't believe that Trump is the anti-christ or the next coming of Hitler. I don't believe that Hillary is all that much better. She is JUST as privileged, probably just as racist (based on policies from the original Clinton administration) but she hides it better. I prefer honesty to dishonesty. 

And I also would never vote for either of these clowns, but I'm tempted because I HATE HATE HATE it when people tell me I "have" to do anything. 

Also I live in a state that has never swung blue, and my vote doesn't count anyway. The election is over before our polls even close. 

You're joking right?  Hillary and Bernie have a 93% similar voting record in the senate.  The democrat and republican platforms are complete opposites.  

[RoseWilder]

19 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

I don't believe that Trump is the anti-christ or the next coming of Hitler. I don't believe that Hillary is all that much better. She is JUST as privileged, probably just as racist (based on policies from the original Clinton administration) but she hides it better. I prefer honesty to dishonesty. 

Hillary actually is a lot better, because she's not planning on taking away the rights of millions of people. She's not planning on taking away a woman's right to choose, or a gay person's right to marry who they want to, or mocking disabled people. 

Could you please explain further what policies from the Clinton administration make you think Hillary Clinton is a racist? 

[Maggie Mae]

14 minutes ago, Natalie22 said:

You're joking right?  Hillary and Bernie have a 93% similar voting record in the senate.  The democrat and republican platforms are complete opposites.  

Voted for war. 

The policies of the Clintons in the first Clinton presidency were not good for minorities. 

And beyond all that, I'm just sick of being told what to do. 

Polices that weren't good for minorities, off the top of my head? The three strike crime bill, his "welfare reform" bill, NAFTA, Defense of Marriage Act, (And she said she is "rooted in conservatism, and that marriage is between a man and a woman. I'm not 100% holding that against her, as I too thought that abortion and gay marriage was bad in the 90s. Of course I was a teenager enrolled in a Catholic School, and she was the First Lady),Expanded the US drug wars, War on Drugs in the US, oh, and the Clinton Administration knew about Rwanda and while there is no proof that she did and that has nothing do to with her, it kind of does as she was first lady. She's way too tied up with Wall Street. 

But overall, I really want someone new. We had Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, and now Clinton? This is an Oligarchy or corporatarchy. They all know each other, they all socialize (with people like Trump, too!) . I'm pissed off. I'm pissed that the DNC can cheat and lie and act like teenagers and still tell us we "have" to vote in a specific way because the world will end otherwise. But really, it's THEIR FAULT that people are pissed. People are pissed because of the blatant favoritism. And it's like, when someone wants to be class president and no one really likes her because no one knows her that well, but the other option is the class bully, and they are both kind of terrible and it just sucks. Let me be pissed. I don't matter. I'm one person in 218 million. 

And besides, it doesn't matter how we vote, it matters who counts the votes. 

[notfundy]

1 hour ago, RoseWilder said:

I agree. She killed it with that speech!

There were so many good parts that I can't even decide which one was my favorite. That part where she talked about how they had to teach their daughters how to handle people questioning their father's citizenship and his faith, and how they tell them "when they go low, we go high," wow that was both heartbreaking (that such ugliness has been spewed towards this family) and so inspiring. It's so amazing to see how the Obama family has handled the hatred towards them with such class and grace and dignity. 

Yes  that was heartbreaking... what the Obamas have had to endure... it's one thing for people to attack the President (he signed up for it!) but quite another to attack the first lady and daughters.  Have you seen the Alex Jones tapes where he insists Michelle is a "tranny" and presents pictures of the lovely and acomplished Michelle Obama with arrows pointing to her private parts to "prove she's a man"?  Yup- the same Alex Jones who was a special guest at the RNC Convention. Beyond disgusting and beyond obscene what she's had to put up with these past 8 years.  Google  Alex Jones trannie MIchelle  or similar if you want to find it I don't even want to link it anywhere. 

Her speech was excellent.  

[Maggie Mae]

4 minutes ago, notfundy said:

 Have you seen the Alex Jones tapes where he insists Michelle is a "tranny" and presents pictures of the lovely and acomplished Michelle Obama with arrows pointing to her private parts to "prove she's a man"?  

I have not and that is horrifying! 

[Mecca]

Alex Jones is the biggest piece of shit in the history of shit. 

[RoseWilder]

13 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

Voted for war. 

The policies of the Clintons in the first Clinton presidency were not good for minorities. 

And beyond all that, I'm just sick of being told what to do. 

Polices that weren't good for minorities, off the top of my head? The three strike crime bill, his "welfare reform" bill, NAFTA, Defense of Marriage Act, (And she said she is "rooted in conservatism, and that marriage is between a man and a woman. I'm not 100% holding that against her, as I too thought that abortion and gay marriage was bad in the 90s. Of course I was a teenager enrolled in a Catholic School, and she was the First Lady),Expanded the US drug wars, War on Drugs in the US, oh, and the Clinton Administration knew about Rwanda and while there is no proof that she did and that has nothing do to with her, it kind of does as she was first lady. She's way too tied up with Wall Street. 

But overall, I really want someone new. We had Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, and now Clinton? This is an Oligarchy or corporatarchy. They all know each other, they all socialize (with people like Trump, too!) . I'm pissed off. I'm pissed that the DNC can cheat and lie and act like teenagers and still tell us we "have" to vote in a specific way because the world will end otherwise. But really, it's THEIR FAULT that people are pissed. People are pissed because of the blatant favoritism. And it's like, when someone wants to be class president and no one really likes her because no one knows her that well, but the other option is the class bully, and they are both kind of terrible and it just sucks. Let me be pissed. I don't matter. I'm one person in 218 million. 

And besides, it doesn't matter how we vote, it matters who counts the votes. 

I don't find it fair at all to say that Hillary Clinton is a racist because you disagree with some of Bill Clinton's policies. Just as I don't blame Michelle Obama for things Barack Obama does that I disagree with, I don't hold Hillary responsible for Bill's choices as President. 

And I personally agree with welfare reform. I don't think that makes me a racist. I know a lot of people who are scamming the system (I live near a state line and know several people who have food stamp cards in two different states. attempts to report this fraud have not changed anything) and people who are living on in long-term, with no plans to ever get off, who deliberately planned to continue having more children while on the system despite already have multiple children (the one person already had 2 kids and deliberately had 2 more, the other already had 5 kids and had 2 more - all of their children born while on the system were planned pregnancies.) I fail to see how it makes a person racist to have a problem with that. 

[Florita]

42 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

Voted for war. 

The policies of the Clintons in the first Clinton presidency were not good for minorities. 

And beyond all that, I'm just sick of being told what to do. 

Polices that weren't good for minorities, off the top of my head? The three strike crime bill, his "welfare reform" bill, NAFTA, Defense of Marriage Act, (And she said she is "rooted in conservatism, and that marriage is between a man and a woman. I'm not 100% holding that against her, as I too thought that abortion and gay marriage was bad in the 90s. Of course I was a teenager enrolled in a Catholic School, and she was the First Lady),Expanded the US drug wars, War on Drugs in the US, oh, and the Clinton Administration knew about Rwanda and while there is no proof that she did and that has nothing do to with her, it kind of does as she was first lady. She's way too tied up with Wall Street. 

But overall, I really want someone new. We had Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, and now Clinton? This is an Oligarchy or corporatarchy. They all know each other, they all socialize (with people like Trump, too!) . I'm pissed off. I'm pissed that the DNC can cheat and lie and act like teenagers and still tell us we "have" to vote in a specific way because the world will end otherwise. But really, it's THEIR FAULT that people are pissed. People are pissed because of the blatant favoritism. And it's like, when someone wants to be class president and no one really likes her because no one knows her that well, but the other option is the class bully, and they are both kind of terrible and it just sucks. Let me be pissed. I don't matter. I'm one person in 218 million. 

And besides, it doesn't matter how we vote, it matters who counts the votes. 

Fortunately we have 3+ months to decide before any of us can cast a ballot. Take your time. Look into Gary Johnson and the Libertarians and Jill Stein and the Green Party. Millions of people are taking the 3rd party option this time. You don't have to buy what the oligarchy is selling. There are options. 

[RoseWilder]

I enjoyed Bernie's speech tonight as well. I had to go take care of some other things while Cory Booker was speaking, so I didn't get to hear much of that speech. I'll have to watch it tomorrow. The other three I saw - Bernie Sanders, Michelle Obama and Elizabeth Warren - were all fantastic. I can't wait for tomorrow's speeches!

[Lillybee]

There is such a different feeling in this convention compared to the Republican one. This one is filled with hope instead of the doom and gloom of the Repubs.

[Mecca]

27 minutes ago, RoseWilder said:

I enjoyed Bernie's speech tonight as well. I had to go take care of some other things while Cory Booker was speaking, so I didn't get to hear much of that speech. I'll have to watch it tomorrow. The other three I saw - Bernie Sanders, Michelle Obama and Elizabeth Warren - were all fantastic. I can't wait for tomorrow's speeches!

I thought Bernie did excellent and did not back away from his support of Hillary. I am hoping this moves us forward so we can all work together. There are things that need to change, I agree, but there is a lot at stake here. The thought of a Supreme Court Justice nomination coming from Mr. Spray Tan is flat out terrifying. We can all agree with that, right? 

[ALM7]

3 hours ago, Mecca said:

I thought Bernie did excellent and did not back away from his support of Hillary. I am hoping this moves us forward so we can all work together. There are things that need to change, I agree, but there is a lot at stake here. The thought of a Supreme Court Justice nomination coming from Mr. Spray Tan is flat out terrifying. We can all agree with that, right? 

[my bold]

@Mecca exactly, you nailed the most important aspect of this election, regarding Supreme Court appointments.  

Presidents will come and go, if they make poor internal domestic decisions, as a rule, we will eventually recover as a nation. [Exception being the Bush policy on the war on terror, the decisions made changed the global landscape, a pure policy nightmare]

If a questionable Federal or Supreme Court appointment is made, we live with that for decades. In some instances, the repercussion of a set precedent may dramatically alter our future.  The next President could possibly appoint one to four Justices, and we've seen Trump's list of possible appointments.  Is it worth a protest non-vote, is it worth a 3rd party protest vote, why play roulette?  This is not the time to stand on principle, this is not a run-of-the-mill election year.  

If, IF, we end up with a President Trump, it's important the non-vote protesters realize they could have made a difference on the down ticket.  If the Dems are able to retake the Senate, and rebuild their numbers in the House. Our Nation would have a chance to stop some of Trumps absurdities. There's no telling what a far right Republican Congress would send to his desk.

This is one election cycle that should be taken very seriously. Trump is no longer a novelty to be laughed at, he's dangerous, period.  As President, he's very capable of leaving a global mess, to be dealt with for decades.  I can't imagine the global havoc he could cause. Is it really worth a protest vote/non-vote?  I just don't understand the logic, or lack there of...

The man is tied for #2 out of 10 on the Global Risk Forecasting Service.             Linked below...

https://gfs.eiu.com/Archive.aspx?archiveType=globalrisk

 

 

 

[AlwaysExcited]

Bernie or bust people be like "Mother Reality won't let me have a desert before broccoli, so I will go and drink rat poison."

[PraiseDog]

Yes, I agree the DNC fucked Bernie over, but we all knew that from day one, when everything on every variety of social media/internet news sites were pretty much equally divided between the various Repubs, Bernie and Hillary...But as soon as we turned on local or cable TV or picked up a newspaper, it was 80% coverage of whatever idiotic thing Drumph said and the idiots' reactions to it (filtered in favor of maximum craziness) 15% about HRC's emails, OMG! and 5% about Bernie's rallies and speeches, giving them a "RED" slant worthy of 50s McCarthyism crazy accusations.
For myself, I'm a Bernie supporter who caucused for him in my state, was elected to my state district, and now is willing to hold my nose and vote for Hillary just to make sure Drumph doesn't win.  Like I said to my caucus, if we get President Hillary Clinton, it will be exactly like another four more years of President Obama.  
Us working people (because, let's face it, there's no more middle class) will continue to see our wages stagnate, our kids' college tuition skyrocket with nothing but minimum-wage retail jobs to reward them once they graduate, with debt out of proportion to their ability to pay.

Continued for-profit law enforcement (Halliburton, or whatever Dickhead Cheney's corrupt company's been renamed) that privatizes companies who incarcerate as many POC as possible, because the people who are most likely not able to afford skilled lawyers to defend themselves, are the best and most profitable victims of this system. And we get to seize their cars and keep them, or auction them off with no court order at all! It's only a coincidence that they just happen to be Black?  Shit-ass bullshit.

Let's consider all the mega-companies making profits from all of us who work for them, while they move those profits offshore to avoid taxes, while claiming that paying us benefits would bankrupt them.  All the mega-companies owning the media and threatening to sue every truth-teller who ever worked for them, kills the First Amendment.

But if Drumph wins, not only will we get all of the above!  But in addition, the Supreme Court nominee will be a crazy-ass fundamentalist who bases their decisions on "What they believe God Wants" rather than our constitution. Our Trade agreements will be according to "What benefits Trump." Our legal system will involve LGBTQ people forced to  participate in those crazy "pray away the gay" shit-hole groupiness places. We women will not only have no reproductive rights, we will have to be thought of according to how attractive we are 
according to the cheeto-skined, tiny-fingered, dumb-fuck minded, piece of shit. 
As a Bernie supporter,  whatever I need to do to make Trump lose, I'll do it.  I have my issues with HRC, but I don't care - at least she's better than such a hateful asshole.   

Let's please, all of us, do our best to not vote for Drumph...

[Alicja]

I think some of you are missing the point. The DNC was against Bernie from the start. The DNC didn't do their jobs. Like I said in the DNC leak thread, it really doesn't matter if Bernie isn't a registered Democrat; he frequently caucused with Senate Democrats and most of his ideology aligns with the Democratic Party. He's not a republican plant, he's not trying to regress the party platform. The DNC didn't do their job. They were biased, and this not only affected Sanders but O'Malley as well. This is why people are mad. This is why they're heckling. They aren't toddlers throwing tantrums because they didn't get their way.

Yes, I agree the DNC fucked Bernie over, but we all knew that from day one, when everything on every variety of social media/internet news sites were pretty much equally divided between the various Repubs, Bernie and Hillary...But as soon as we turned on local or cable TV or picked up a newspaper, it was 80% coverage of whatever idiotic thing Drumph said and the idiots' reactions to it (filtered in favor of maximum craziness) 15% about HRC's emails, OMG! and 5% about Bernie's rallies and speeches, giving them a "RED" slant worthy of 50s McCarthyism crazy accusations.
For myself, I'm a Bernie supporter who caucused for him in my state, was elected to my state district, and now is willing to hold my nose and vote for Hillary just to make sure Drumph doesn't win.  Like I said to my caucus, if we get President Hillary Clinton, it will be exactly like another four more years of President Obama.  
Us working people (because, let's face it, there's no more middle class) will continue to see our wages stagnate, our kids' college tuition skyrocket with nothing but minimum-wage retail jobs to reward them once they graduate, with debt out of proportion to their ability to pay.

Continued for-profit law enforcement (Halliburton, or whatever Dickhead Cheney's corrupt company's been renamed) that privatizes companies who incarcerate as many POC as possible, because the people who are most likely not able to afford skilled lawyers to defend themselves, are the best and most profitable victims of this system. And we get to seize their cars and keep them, or auction them off with no court order at all! It's only a coincidence that they just happen to be Black?  Shit-ass bullshit.

Let's consider all the mega-companies making profits from all of us who work for them, while they move those profits offshore to avoid taxes, while claiming that paying us benefits would bankrupt them.  All the mega-companies owning the media and threatening to sue every truth-teller who ever worked for them, kills the First Amendment.

But if Drumph wins, not only will we get all of the above!  But in addition, the Supreme Court nominee will be a crazy-ass fundamentalist who bases their decisions on "What they believe God Wants" rather than our constitution. Our Trade agreements will be according to "What benefits Trump." Our legal system will involve LGBTQ people forced to  participate in those crazy "pray away the gay" shit-hole groupiness places. We women will not only have no reproductive rights, we will have to be thought of according to how attractive we are 
according to the cheeto-skined, tiny-fingered, dumb-fuck minded, piece of shit. 
As a Bernie supporter,  whatever I need to do to make Trump lose, I'll do it.  I have my issues with HRC, but I don't care - at least she's better than such a hateful asshole.   

Let's please, all of us, do our best to not vote for Drumph...

My thoughts exactly. I love President Obama dearly, but I don't want 4 more years of the same. I want to see progress.

[RoseWilder]

8 minutes ago, Alicja said:

I think some of you are missing the point. The DNC was against Bernie from the start. The DNC didn't do their jobs. Like I said in the DNC leak thread, it really doesn't matter if Bernie isn't a registered Democrat; he frequently caucused with Senate Democrats and most of his ideology aligns with the Democratic Party. He's not a republican plant, he's not trying to regress the party platform. The DNC didn't do their job. They were biased, and this not only affected Sanders but O'Malley as well. This is why people are mad. This is why they're heckling. They aren't toddlers throwing tantrums because they didn't get their way.


 

I don't think I am missing the point. I have no problem with Bernie Sanders' supporters being angry at the DNC. I have a problem with them heckling people during their speech who didn't screw them over. It was rude and disrespectful and childish of them to heckle Elizabeth Warren during her speech. I do think that's toddler tantrum behavior. Direct your anger towards the people who deserve it. I have no problem with people booing Debbie Wasserman Shultz. 

And how about when they booed Bernie Sanders earlier that day. That was childish and disrespectful. Bernie has a right to endorse who he wants. And I can understand if people are disappointed, but booing someone for saying something you don't like it ridiculous, childish behavior. 

[RoseWilder]

Trump spent the evening tweeting nasty things at the people who spoke at the DNC last night. Cory Booker's response: 

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/cory-booker-trump-feud-226203?lo=ap_c2

Fantastic response.  Well done, sir! 

[louisa05]

You know what I find insulting as hell? The notion that some Sanders supporters have that no one would have voted for Hillary based on her own merits and their own informed opinion. 

Why is it impossible to believe that voters went to the polls and made the decision they thought was best for the party and the country? Why do Hillary voters have to be treated as if they are just gullible lemmings?

You don't want people telling you how to vote? Well, you know what? No one has ever told me how to vote. I was a registered Democrat, before most of the Bernie supporters who have yelled at me in person were born, while working at a job where that could have got me fired. Literally. I make my own political choices.  I didn't caucus for Hillary or agree to be a state delegate for her because the DNC or Debbie Wasserman Schultz or anyone else told me I had to. The notion that every single voter for Hillary would have voted for Bernie if only a few staffers at the DNC had fallen in line is ridiculous. The reality is that a lot of people don't think Bernie is a messiah or that his revolution is even possible. A lot of people were turned off by his complete lack of foreign policy experience (and his seeming lack of concern about that). 

And don't give me the crap about questions asked in debates and that shit. Know what? I never watched a single primary debate.  I read about the candidates. I read about their records. I have been aware of both of them for years. I have taught American government and communications. I understand how politics and propaganda work. (A lot of voters are intelligent enough to grasp that, btw). And I chose Hillary because I can make my own choice as much as any Bernie supporter ever made theirs. So stop acting like we are all morons. 

 

[RoseWilder]

Bernie Sanders spoke to some of his supporters today: 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-booing_us_579768e7e4b0d3568f847c08

 

For those who don't want to click on the article, he said, "“It’s easy to boo, but it is harder to look your kids in the face who would be living under a Donald Trump presidency."

[Mela99]

3 minutes ago, RoseWilder said:

Bernie Sanders spoke to some of his supporters today: 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-booing_us_579768e7e4b0d3568f847c08

 

For those who don't want to click on the article, he said, "“It’s easy to boo, but it is harder to look your kids in the face who would be living under a Donald Trump presidency."

That's perfection. 

Michelle was flawless last night. 

[nausicaa]

13 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

Because I'm pissed off, and I am SICK AND TIRED of people telling me what I "have to" do. 

...

And I also would never vote for either of these clowns, but I'm tempted because I HATE HATE HATE it when people tell me I "have" to do anything. 

You realize these comments sound like the statements of a spoiled ten year old, right? 

[Cartmann99]

1 hour ago, RoseWilder said:

Bernie Sanders spoke to some of his supporters today: 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-booing_us_579768e7e4b0d3568f847c08

 

For those who don't want to click on the article, he said, "“It’s easy to boo, but it is harder to look your kids in the face who would be living under a Donald Trump presidency."

I also liked this quote from him: 

Quote

“Our credibility as a movement will be damaged by booing, turning of backs, walking out or other similar displays,” Sanders wrote in a text message to delegate leaders. “That’s what the corporate media wants. That’s what Donald Trump wants. But that’s not what will expand the progressive movement of this country.”

 Republicans love watching Democrats fight among themselves as it gives them an opportunity to .

As others have noted, we are voting for an individual who will be tasked with filling up to four Supreme Court vacancies. I always suggest that voters carefully read the platforms of the party (or parties) and the candidates you are considering voting for before making your decision. I obviously enjoy watching the conventions, debates, and some of the commercials are quite good. That said, I understand that their purpose is to draw in the people who make their decisions from 30 second soundbites, and will never replace in-depth reading about a candidate.

This isn't my first rodeo, but I know for some voters, this is the first election they're eligible to vote in, or the first time they've found a politician they really like. It hurts to find a politician whose message excites you and not be able to convey that message to enough people to make that person the candidate. It's frustrating as hell, but unfortunately that's how it turns out sometimes.

The world is watching us and our choices will affect them. Please don't let a vulgar, immature, quick tempered, narcissistic, bigoted fool be the face of our country because your preferred candidate lost their race. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

[Mecca]

I don't think any of us are missing the point. I just believe booing a long term representative when they are speaking about the issues of police brutality within their district is ineffective and, frankly, rude. It shows their lack of concern or respect on issues that are important and greatly affect many people. It comes across as only giving a crap about their issues and disregarding others. I also find it disrespectful to boo the actual candidate they backed because he sees the bigger picture. They can be mad all they want, but it still does not change the outcome that Hillary received 3 million more votes than Sanders. 

3 hours ago, Alicja said:

My thoughts exactly. I love President Obama dearly, but I don't want 4 more years of the same. I want to see progress.

 

President Obama can only do so much if the legislative branch keeps digging their heels in and won't work with him in a lot of areas. Sanders would face the exact same situation if that branch of government has no change. This is why all elections are important and people need to show up and cast their votes. The demographic I saw yesterday mostly acting out tend to not vote consistently. They don't show up for mid-terms or local elections. In order for us to have progress we all need to show up and cast a vote every time.

I do want to remind people that it may feel like progress has not happened in the last four years under President Obama, we have seen progress. Marriage equality being a huge move forward.

Change cannot happen overnight no matter who we cast our vote for. The only way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time. We have to keep biting.