fundies of all kinds and makeup

[BlondeAgent007]

Ok, so I just had to take a number 2 between classes and I am very shy about public restrooms. I found a quiet one with one person in it - a Muslim woman already out of the stall. I was waiting for her to skadaddle so I could do my thing. I then heard the familiar sound of compacts being opened and closed. She spent ten minutes putting on makeup.

in my spare time and pain I got to wondering, why in so maany modest, fundy cultures, is it mandatory to wear loose, covering clothing and head coverings to enhance countenance but considered okay to slather on makeup? I rarely wear makeup, so to me it seems to be another way to adorn and enhance the body. I see this with many fundy fams, including the duggars with their perms, fake tans, and heavy makeup. Even in the first duggar special, michelle was wearing some lipstick.

I guess I was wondering why this fact, which seems contradictory to me, is acceptable in their cultures. Any opinions, experiences or insights are all appreciated. Am I the only one who sees this, or was it induced by bowel frustration?

[GenerationCedarchip]

Depends on what subset of fundie culture you mean. In reformed land, I know from childhood that wearing discreet (i.e. not slathered on) makeup is pretty normal. They also tend to have long hair but without the crazy Gothard-approved perms. The makeup is rather like the dress - it's supposed to be modest but flattering. However, there are some sects that totally forbid makeup on the grounds that one is to focus on inward beauty.

[BlondeAgent007]

Sorry I should have clarified. The lady in the bathroom was wearing head covering along with a full skirt, a loose blouse of some sort (head covering skewed it and I was in a hurry), and fuunctional plain black sneakers, probably reebok

[titus2_4u]

I think the lack of aversion to makeup with some conservative women stems from worshipping the idea of femininity. Makeup = feminine = okay.

[doe]

I've heard that Gothard is real big on appearances, with a guide to tell a woman what color make up she should wear! Considering how strict they are on everything else, I am surprised at the emphasis on things like perms and makeup. But then I think, especially from a Gothard angle, that it's really just another form of control. It's another standard they have to live up to.

As for Muslims, from what I've read, their covering is more about modesty of the body rather than being plain (plain modesty being something the fundies usually emphasize). So I understand why they usually have nice, even fashionable clothes, cute handbags, and wear makeup.

I haven't read anything so far that indicates there's any shame in a Muslim woman looking attractive in a 'worldly' way like I have about fundies. And for the record, it irritates me when fundies wear frumpers but do the makeup thing because in my mind, they are copying the world (i.e. beauty standards), and using it as another form of control wrapped in a cloak of holiness.

Now if a fundie woman wants to do that sort of thing, that's one thing. I just don't like the implication that she has beauty standards to keep when she is preaching a message of extreme modesty and being set apart from the world.

ETA: I wanted to clarify when I mentioned frumper that I don't mean any modest fundie shouldn't wear makeup. I'm talking about the extreme ones who chide the world constantly, but then are also expected to look like the world from the neck up.

[Dinorah]

There are a lot of Muslim women with hijabs where I live, and some of them are made up in a way I'd consider undecent. So, at least for some fundamentalist Muslims modesty doesn't extend to make-up.

Not sure about Christian and Jewish fundies. At least for Christian ones it seems to be one of those ambivalent things, since after all make-up is "feminine".

[MissSeptember]

During his sermons on outward appearance, our pastor used to say from the pulpit, "If the barn needs painting, you paint it."

[mstee]

There is a girl in one of my classes who wears a hijab and floor-length skirts every class and long or 3/4 sleeve shirts. Not a bid deal considering I live in a big city and see it a lot, but last class she came in wearing a skin-tight long sleeve shirt. I was in jeans and a jacket and I looked way more modest. I just found it ironic that she did so much to not expose skin, but actually looked sexy. I remember a while back on tv a church (I think the Mormons) was talking about modesty and said, yes, you may be wearing a long sleeved shirt, but if it's skin tight then it's not very modest! Haha, can be true.

[Dinorah]

It's funny indeed, how Muslim girls easily enough wear really tight clothing, as long as it's more or less covering. They don't seem to have the idea that even if you're covering your skin, you're not that modest if your clothes look painted on.

I also once saw two (probably Saudi) women wearing not only hijabs but nikabs, which were black but covered with strass decorations. Everyone was looking at them.

Anyway, Muslim modesty works differently because it's very much related to what appears externally, a lot of those women have no qualms wearing skimpy clothing in private.

[Clementine]

The only fundies we have here are Muslims and I too have noticed that a lot of the women with hijab wear a _lot_ of makeup and look like strippers or porn stars.

Last week I saw a Swedish woman who must have converted to Islam. She was with her African husband who had the little crocheted cap on his head. The woman was wearing a long black shapeless robe and a hijab and had tons of makeup on. The strangest thing was her eyebrows. They were shaved and then she had filled them in with a thick black sharp pencil. She just looked... weird.

[JesusFightClub]

I hope a Muslim FreeJingerist drops in here to explain. But my understanding of Islam is that it isn't vaguely weird to be unveiled in front of males you are related to. Also, why not buy sexy lingerie and dress up for your husband? Nothing forbids it.

[maybeizfundie]

Totally depends on the sub groups.

Your anabaptist types (Amish, Menno, Hutterite) consider makeup vanity and immodest.

And then there is the other extreme, the "Paint that barn (so your husband doesn't stray)" attitude. Which I hate.

[TMS]

Well if there's one thing I'll give the Maxwells credit for, it's consistency. Those women never wear makeup.

[snickerz]

My (mainstream American) sister has lived in the Middle East for the last 7 or 8 yrs. She says most of the women there wear heavy makeup, designer shoes/purses, underneath the hijab they wear designer clothing, lots of jewelry, and reek of perfume. (This is a progressive, oil-rich country, so it may be different elsewhere.) She thinks it's because it's the only way they can dress up/feel pretty/adorn themselves/assert their individuality/etc.

[nuri]

I also wouldn't be so quick to assume that wearing hijabi and looser clothes equals fundie or even conservative muslim either. My classmates would have laughed at that, liberal as all get out, but also religious.

[Austin]

Lindsay Says, I saw that this topic got posted twice, and the other thread had no responses, so I deleted it. Just wanted you to know where it went. :)

[Daenerys]

Well if there's one thing I'll give the Maxwells credit for, it's consistency. Those women never wear makeup.

Neither do any of the Seven Sisters, though I don't know what family they come from or even where they live, so not sure if they're influential fundies. Though they do dress like it's 1850...

homeschoolblogger.com/sevensisters/the-farmgirls

[titus2_4u]

The makeup thing is also a sort of in-joke. My fundie-lite Grandma had an "I Ran into Tammy Faye at the Mall" t-shirt back in the day:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/trespass/4496972703/

[BlondeAgent007]

Austin - no problem, I was posting from my android and was afraid that would happen :)

Although I have noticed some muslims dress more modern than others, I didn't realize the cultures were so different when, to an outsider with limited exposure, they look pretty similar to me.

With the fundies we talk about in mind - I don't see how wearing makeup is more feminine than having a feminine shape or clothes that don't look like they belong on a four year old at easter time. Isn't it more feminine looking to be able to see the idea of ample breats or childbearing hips under clothes - all natural parts - than applying false blush and adding volume to eyelashes? Even the modest dress of the 1800s emphasized the hourglass figure. And im sorry, no grown woman with any self respect would wear a baby pink, shapeless dress with a full bib collar. I seriously did wear something similaar, with lace socks, gloves, and a bonnet, to church when I was four.

[bananacat]

This really isn't good reasoning. There are certain parts of my body that I always keep covered and yet I still wear make-up. Why shouldn't a Muslim woman want to make the most of the little she is allowed to show? I don't see hair covering as much different than my covering my breasts, butt, and vagina. I won't even bare my midriff in public unless it's the beach or pool, and I generally keep my thighs covered. I always keep a large portion of my body covered, but nobody thinks twice that I wear make-up. The difference with Muslim women is only the degree. They think it's wrong for women to show certain body parts.

[Turtle]

During his sermons on outward appearance, our pastor used to say from the pulpit, "If the barn needs painting, you paint it."

Ugh! Do they teach that at jackhole seminary or something? I've heard it before from a fundie-lite pastor and I find it annoying.

[Joykins]

My day care provider is a Muslim and dresses traditionally, but I've seen her in makeup and henna tattoos all gussied up (for weddings too). She did wear her headcovering when she knew the fathers were going to drop off/pick up the kids though. I don't think she qualifies as a fundie by US standards--just an older woman who took her religion and modesty seriously without being bigoted about anything. She had some very stylish shalwar kameez actually.

[Kitty]

In Iran, women are supposed to keep everything but their faces, hands, and feet covered. A LOT of wealthy Iranian women have rhinoplasties- since they cover up everything else, they want their faces to be perfect. So I think it's a way to attract more attention to the face. Most other Muslim women don't bother with nose jobs, so they use heavy makeup. Of course, this isn't universal, but it's not strange to me that Muslim women have henna tattoos and makeup.

[BlondeAgent007]

Bananacat, I don't go around wearing crotchless jeans either. My curiosity was towards the muslims since I don't know much about their dress customs. I just wanted to know if this was common.

My reasoning was towards the christian fundies that dress in a certain, conpletely unflattering way to keep their men from screwing anything with a womb. But for some reason, making their face sexified is still considered modest. I think it looks so strange to see these women in shapeless, childish dresses with their faces made up like a lady of the night

[Guest Anonymous]

My curiosity was towards the muslims since I don't know much about their dress customs. I just wanted to know if this was common.

I lived with my best friend who is a Muslim for several years, my info comes from him. There is just as much variation in Islam as there is in Christianity. Just as there are Catholics and Anabaptists and Lutherans and non-denominational Christians, there are Sunni and Shiite and non-denominational Muslims. (I'm simplifying, but you get my drift.) Some Muslim women cover everything, some only cover their hair, and some don't cover at all. It's a matter of what they personally feel led to do, unless they live in a place where it's mandated one way or the other by the government. It's very similar to how some Christian women only wear skirts, some wear modest pants, and some wear whatever they want.

If any of our Muslim posters want to weigh in feel free to correct me if I've lost the plot, as I'm on the outside of this one and my experience is with a liberal Muslim family where some women wear hijab and others don't.