Mennonite... Puppy Mills?

[Ave Maria]

I think anti-breeders are usually people against all breeding. There's responsible breeding, and breeds have a very important purpose in helping families try to match energy and temperament needs to their families. The problems are people who don't care shit and breed random animals because they're cute, for solely profit, and people who pick breeds because they like how it looks (I'm thinking very specifically about a couple families at an old apartment complex where I lived who got a couple huskies, and the other got a couple great danes, because both families thought their choices looked pretty, even though we weren't near dog parks or enclosed areas for the dogs to exercise, and it did end with both families being forced to give the dogs up because they were getting destructive) or think the designer-breed name is trendy. I'm anti-irresponsible-breeding, anti-career-breeding, and anti-irresponsible-dog-getting. Those people are the problems.

Pretty much all of this. Also, some people choose certain breeds (including the "designer" ones) for allergy reasons. Plus some dogs are bred for specific purposes (guide dogs, police work, farm work, etc).

I've always felt that people who hate all breeders (even responsible ones) are often alienating other animal lovers who are also against the inhumane practices found in other kennels, etc. In other words, they would be on "our side" if some people didn't make them feel unwelcome.

[Inthemadhouse]

Breeding too few litters can lead to a bottlenecking of the gene pool You need a certain number of members to promote enough genetic diversity to keep the breed healthy. It's one of my huge issues with the AKC and their closed stud books. Some breeds (shelties comes to mind) are incredibly inbred and it manifests itself in a variety of health/temperament issues.

Concerns about closed stud books and lack of diversity was one of the reasons I went with a non-AKC breed where there is still fresh blood being added.

For many people, it's easy to find what they want in a shelter, and they are happy to do so. That's great. I couldn't get what I wanted in a shelter, so I went to a breeder, and stacked the deck in my favor as much as possible. There's nothing wrong with that, just like there's nothing wrong with rescuing.

[FundieFarmer]

I am definitely an #adoptdontshop kind of girl, but that's not to say I'm against breeders. I agree with DGayle, sometimes that sentiment goes too far. There's a big difference in mill breeders and regular/show breeders, and in fact, I got my first two dogs from a show pedigree breeder (not that you can tell, because they look like small grey barking mops, but whatever). I adopted my last girl from a friend, and have never gone back. Looking to adopt another now! So yes, I'm with DGayle. No mill breeders!!

[FaustianSlip]

The biggest problem I encountered with shelters was that a huge percentage of the dogs, at least in my area, were part pitbull or rottweiler. While I wouldn't have a problem owning one of those breeds, I move internationally every couple of years for my job, and a surprisingly large number of countries (including Germany, where I am now) have breed restrictions about what you can and cannot bring in, and both pits and rotties are almost always on that list. Then there are sometimes additional, local restrictions. After reading a few horror stories about people's pets being confiscated at customs in various places because they "looked like" a banned breed, I ended up deciding to get a dog from a breeder so that I would have clear paperwork that I could present attesting to my dog's breed. I would have considered a breed rescue, but frankly, most of them have such stringent adoption policies and tend to be adversarial, so I assumed I'd never get past the front door.

As it turned out, the breeder I contacted had an adult dog who had been returned to him after one of her original owners died. I told him I was happy to take her, she's been a phenomenal dog thus far, and I got the bonus of having the breed I wanted and rescuing a dog who needed a home. I don't have an issue with people adopting or getting their dog from a reputable breeder- there are completely valid reasons for either option, but the emphasis is on reputable. It's really important to do your research.

[Ave Maria]

I hear you on selection, Freudian Slip. Rotties aren't common in shelters here, but pits abound. I was able to get a German Shepherd mix puppy in a shelter, but it took months of looking. Personally, I have nothing against pits as other people's dogs, but I prefer something with a bit more fur. We were also worried about how certain breeds would look to various adoption agencies, and even to the country we were adopting from (especially since foreign government officials can't meet your dog and realize what a sweetheart he is).

[FaustianSlip]

Ditto- I've met enough delightful pits and rottweilers to know that they can be great dogs (and enough terrible, aggressive little breeds to know that sometimes they're worse than any pit ever thought of being), but in my situation, it just wasn't an option. And while I know that aesthetics aren't the only thing or the most important thing when selecting a dog, I also prefer a bit more fur. Or did, until I had to start vacuuming all the time after getting my furry dork.

And I don't really fault people who want to get a puppy and have more control over socialization and training from day one, but can't find one in the local shelter and opt for a breeder, either. I adore my dog and wouldn't trade her for anything, but the fact is that she did come to me with habits (some good, some bad) and baggage from her previous life, and there are things that I just don't think I'll ever be able to train out of her completely. Which is fine for me, but it's not fine for everyone, and I don't think there's anything wrong with acknowledging that.

[Ave Maria]

And if you live somewhere cold, a bit more fur might be about more than just looks.

The best and worst thing about little puppies is that they have no habits -- good or bad. I find them easier (overall) than working with adult dogs and older puppies adopted from shelters (did that 3 times as a teenage with my parents, but I was the one doing the training).

My GSD mix pup learned sit in two repetitions. Bam, done. He learned it before we even filled out the final paperwork to adopt him. He'd been in a shelter since he was weaned, and they don't train/work with the pups because they don't stay long. Breed matters a LOT for trainability. The rottie I trained is half GSD, and she trained quickly, but not like my little guy did. Part of that was that she was 6-months-old and hadn't been worked with much -- so excited to finally have someone giving her attention that she didn't want to focus and work, at least initially.

As for little dogs -- no thanks. My daughter is afraid of them, and it's for good reason. I've known a few nice ones, but I don't know what the cause was that made them nicer than most.

[FaustianSlip]

I have an English setter. She's very bright, but stubborn as hell. She knows exactly what you want, she just gives zero fucks, because she's quite sure that she's much clearer on what needs to happen and how best to do it. It's like karmic punishment for my teenage years.

[Maggie Mae]

Another reason that people buy dogs from breeders is that there are a lot less hoops to jump through. I love rescues and what they do, but some of them have more restrictions on dog adoption than foster care. Home visits, don't leave the area for 6 months, must have fenced in yard, no other pets, or must have another dog and the "rehoming fee" costs the same as a new puppy....

While I think is great to make sure the dogs home is stable, I'm not going to deal with some crazy dog person showing up for unannounced dog "wellness" checks.

I've always advocated for rescues or humane society dogs, but after hearing what some friends went through with the rescue, I don't think I would go to that particular one. Also we have other pets and would prefer a puppy we could train ourselves.

[Palimpsest]

Honestly, there is nothing wrong with either wanting to buy a puppy from a responsible breeder or wanting to adopt a puppy or an older dog from a rescue. I've done both. Just do your homework if you want a dog (or any other pet) before you bring one home!

Today's PSA for any lurkers out there. :)

Useful link: paw-rescue.org/PAW/PETTIPS/DogTip_breedersandpetshops.php

Everything you need to know about researching and finding a responsible breeder. Look at the list there to see why I think the Hopkins family mentioned up-thread fall into the backyard breeder "do not buy from" category.

Shelter dogs can also be fantastic, but make sure you go to a responsible shelter. A good shelter only adopts out healthy, neutered, and immunized dogs, does temperament screening, and offers ongoing support and training.

Some breed-specific rescues do have a reputation for being really picky. OTOH, if you look around you can probably find one that will work with, and for, you. My greys are retired racers. The adoption fees were just raised to $300, and that does not begin to cover the expenses of running the kennel, transport, spaying and neutering, and other health costs. Both the organizations we adopted through did ask for and check references carefully. We also had pleasant, scheduled well in advance, home visits after adopting the last two, even though I was already well known to the kennel staff. No big deal. Seriously, while there are more than a few crazy dog people out there, not all breed specific rescuers are nuts. :lol:

However, also be aware of fake shelters and rescues and screen carefully for those too. My favorite example of a fake rescue is Gentle Giants run by Burt Ward (Robin in Batman) and his wife. They (allegedly) sell adopt out a vast array of "pure-bred" sick dogs at vastly inflated prices to gullible people, and make suckers adopters sign contracts promising always to feed the Gentle Giants' exclusive and incredibly expensive dog food. Their site is still active to my sorrow. I was hoping CA had shut them down.

So here's a link on what to look for in finding a good dog rescue organization and rule out the fakes. rescue-abuse.com/faux-rescues/

[Mango]

Palimpsest's post is AWESOME- I'd also add one caveat, and that's if you are in the northeast US, be very cautious about 'retail rescues'- groups who are bringing in large volumes of dogs from the southern US for adoption. I'm not against transporting dogs for adoption, but there is essentially NO oversight, and a lot of groups have sprung up that are not taking the time to quarantine dogs properly (contributing hugely to heartworm spreading north- dogs need to be out of a rural shelter environment and monitored for at least 10 days post pull- that's how long parvo and distemper can take to show up if they were exposed) and they do not do a good job of providing after-adoption support. It's critical for rescue groups to make sure that the dogs they adopt out don't 'bounce'- that they don't end up badly matched and that their new home gets the support they need to help them integrate the pet into their home. A lot of retail rescues are well, retail- once the check has cleared for the adoption fee, they're hard to get hold of, off to the next Poor Goggie On Death Row with not a lot of care given to the people who adopted the last batch, or making sure that the adopted pets STAY adopted.

[Inthemadhouse]

As someone who does transport up to NE, I couldn't agree more. It's a great program, and finds homes for dogs that are overlooked her in NC (they can't get enough of the generic black lab mixed pups that no one here will take), but its HARD! You're not only taking a leap of faith yourself, but you're asking potential adopters to take a huge one as well.

The heath issues are not a concern with us (we have a physical shelter in NC, so all dogs are quarantined there and given appropriate shots/preventatives), but there is always the fear of a placement failing. We' are very fortunate to have a network of foster homes willing to take a failed placement until our next trip (approx. 6 week), or at least until one of us can come retrieve our dog.

I actually sent a foster dog to VT in December and a pup to Maryland two weeks ago.

Vet any transporting rescue as hard as you would vet a physical shelter and you should do fine.

[tankgirl]

Honestly, there is nothing wrong with either wanting to buy a puppy from a responsible breeder or wanting to adopt a puppy or an older dog from a rescue. I've done both. Just do your homework if you want a dog (or any other pet) before you bring one home!

Today's PSA for any lurkers out there. :)

Useful link: paw-rescue.org/PAW/PETTIPS/DogTip_breedersandpetshops.php

Everything you need to know about researching and finding a responsible breeder. Look at the list there to see why I think the Hopkins family mentioned up-thread fall into the backyard breeder "do not buy from" category.

Shelter dogs can also be fantastic, but make sure you go to a responsible shelter. A good shelter only adopts out healthy, neutered, and immunized dogs, does temperament screening, and offers ongoing support and training.

Some breed-specific rescues do have a reputation for being really picky. OTOH, if you look around you can probably find one that will work with, and for, you. My greys are retired racers. The adoption fees were just raised to $300, and that does not begin to cover the expenses of running the kennel, transport, spaying and neutering, and other health costs. Both the organizations we adopted through did ask for and check references carefully. We also had pleasant, scheduled well in advance, home visits after adopting the last two, even though I was already well known to the kennel staff. No big deal. Seriously, while there are more than a few crazy dog people out there, not all breed specific rescuers are nuts. :lol:

However, also be aware of fake shelters and rescues and screen carefully for those too. My favorite example of a fake rescue is Gentle Giants run by Burt Ward (Robin in Batman) and his wife. They (allegedly) sell adopt out a vast array of "pure-bred" sick dogs at vastly inflated prices to gullible people, and make suckers adopters sign contracts promising always to feed the Gentle Giants' exclusive and incredibly expensive dog food. Their site is still active to my sorrow. I was hoping CA had shut them down.

So here's a link on what to look for in finding a good dog rescue organization and rule out the fakes. rescue-abuse.com/faux-rescues/

Coming out of lurking to scream, "Yes, all that!" to your post. Especially on the Burt Ward "rescue". One other thing that gets me about them, and is a good sign you are looking at an undercover breeder, not rescue, is when they always seem to have puppies or very young dogs available. This is a red flag! Danes almost always get rehomed about 1-2 years old. Same as many other larger breeds. This is when the cute wears off, and the reality, that this breed is still in "stupid puppy" phase for a while longer. This is also true for popular breeds like Goldens and Labs as well.

I remember features done on this topic a few years back on one of the news shows. It is terrible how they disrespect animals, It breaks my heart.

[Ave Maria]

Wow, Gentle Giants sure is a rabbit hole. A rabbit hole filled with graphic design crimes, too! :oops:

I wouldn't describe their food as crazy expensive -- but we're a grain free dog food family (our critter can't keep grain down) and we feed Blue Buffalo Freedom, which is more expensive than their Gentle Giants. However, Gentle Giants IS over priced, because they are using cheaper ingredients (chicken meal instead of deboned chicken). Meal isn't bad, exactly, but as the only protein source? IMO it's cheaping out.

As for their rescue practices? Crazy town, but then many are. I've never dealt first hand with a private rescue facility (as opposed to the pound/shelter). I wonder, specifically, why certain breeds are "special" and only for repeat customers...

[Palimpsest]

It is so nice to see so many people sharing their doggy expertise here. Thank you all. I'm glad people liked my PSA.

Good points Mango and Inthemadhouse about the need for quarantine for dogs coming from the south. Yes, I'm in the NE. My state really clamped down on quarantine 3 or 4 years ago. I forget. We are also seeing way more TBDs than we used to, according to my vet. Other than the retired racing greyhounds, many of them transported from Florida tracks these days, I'm only aware of one organization moving large numbers of dogs up here. I have to look into it more. The one I know of seems very reputable and not "retail" at all -- Buddy Dog has been around for years. They sometimes quarantine overflow dogs at a boarding kennel quite close to me, I assume well away from the regular boarders. I don't use that kennel myself. With 3 hounds (2 of them on complicated meds because one is an epidog and the other a very old lady) it is much better for me to have a good pet-sitter.

Gentle Giants is a real cesspit isn't it? There are so many red flags! It is the sole purveyor of the very rare Sasquatch dog, and they always have oodles of Doodles, Woodles, Naffies, and Airdanes up for adoption. And "teacup" doggies. Also, plenty of double merles and dapples in the special needs section, last time I looked. It is a front for puppy mills, IMO, although they reputedly pull (or try to pull) some desirable dogs from city pounds too. I've heard of neck and neck races between Greyhound adoption agencies and Gentle Giants if a grey gets sent to a shelter near them.

Ave Maria, the miracle food is rumored to be Diamond under the Gentle Giants label. You can do worse (Alpo comes to mind), but if you are going to feed Diamond grain-free food you might as well buy Kirkland from Costco at half the price Gentle Giants charge! It is the same thing.

I should have added a warning about that site. It is not just a dog and graphic design nightmare, the site takes forever to load and may freeze your computer. I don't think it is a source of malware, but enter at your own risk.

[bean]

I'm learning so much from this thread! :) I also just noticed that the "free range" eggs I buy say they are from "Amish and Mennonite farms," which sounded nice before, but not so much now. I just signed up for eggs from a CSA for the summer, really looking forward to that!

I am in Minnesota and I think a lot of dogs from the south are transported here as well. Both my dogs came from Humane Society shelters - one in Kansas, the other in Missouri. The rescue groups I worked with were great - they are both completely foster-home-based (neither has a kennel facility) and dogs are not put out for adoption for some time (not sure how long), both for quarantine/vetting and figuring out their personalities/temperaments. One of my dogs ended up having separation anxiety (her foster dad worked from home, so it didn't present there), but besides that I really had no surprises with either.

The adoption process with both rescues was thorough (references, home visits), but not ridiculous, and both were completed within a week.

[Ave Maria]

Gentle Giants is a real cesspit isn't it? There are so many red flags! It is the sole purveyor of the very rare Sasquatch dog, and they always have oodles of Doodles, Woodles, Naffies, and Airdanes up for adoption. And "teacup" doggies. Also, plenty of double merles and dapples in the special needs section, last time I looked. It is a front for puppy mills, IMO, although they reputedly pull (or try to pull) some desirable dogs from city pounds too. I've heard of neck and neck races between Greyhound adoption agencies and Gentle Giants if a grey gets sent to a shelter near them.

Do they at least treat the poor critters well? :( I know someone who used to work with Greyhound adoption in Southern California -- I wonder how much dirt she has on Gentle Giants.

Ave Maria, the miracle food is rumored to be Diamond under the Gentle Giants label. You can do worse (Alpo comes to mind), but if you are going to feed Diamond grain-free food you might as well buy Kirkland from Costco at half the price Gentle Giants charge! It is the same thing.

It isn't even grain free -- there's rice in that food. Now, to be fair, some dogs (even ones who can't handle wheat and corn) tolerate rice just fine. Mine *ahem* doesn't.

[Mango]

Palimpsest, North Shore Animal League is apparently importing in quantity :( LIke, thousands, not hundreds, because the demand for puppies is so high.

My guys eat a Diamond food (Kirkland) on kibble days and do really well on it, but.. yeah. I also have dogs with cast iron stomachs and no food allergies. (No allergies at all, actually- not sure how I got that lucky!)

DGayle, you asked about ' why is too few litters a bad thing' - this is a good article to read - http://www.instituteofcaninebiology.org ... -too-small - a very excellent science blog that is worth taking a look at if you're actually interested in learning about population genetics and health.

Bean, I honestly wouldn't necessarily feel bad about Amish or Mennonite eggs. Chickens *aren't*, for the most part, companion animals, and even the most attached chicken owners I know house their birds outdoors- and while they may learn to enjoy it, chickens don't really have the innate desire to connect with humans the way dogs mostly do. I know Amish folks who treat their working animals appropriately- maybe not with a ton of affection, but they take proper care of them, they're treated humanely, and receive appropriate care. This isn't universally true, but you can investigate and see for yourself how an individual situation is. (One usual bonus when it comes to layers is that they dont' tend to be truly huge operations- bigger than a backyard flock, for sure, but not the tens or hundreds of thousands that the really large scale guys have!)

Dogs aren't the same way- dogs are domesticated BECAUSE they want to form social bonds with humans. You can't NOT be affectionate without dogs without doing things wrong, so they don't fit into that situation. I'd rather they're making their living with eggs and meat animals than dogs!

[Walking Cat Bed]

I'm learning quite a bit from y'all!

Once I move on to the next living environment that allows multiple pets, I'm hoping to adopt a dog. Ideally a German Shepherd/GSD mix for general intelligence/trainability/loyalty to Their Person, but if I find a different breed or just outright mutt that's a good match I won't turn them down for the idea of a GSD. Oh, and the dog would have to respect Tessie as Headship, because she IS a cat and will accept no less of her canine minion.

Of course, I'll be thoughtful of the source -- I know of a few local shelters that are excellent overall, but my roommate's cat would grow thumbs and burn the city down if either human brought home a DOG (plus, as a grad student, keeping up with Tessie's needs has been a financial challenge once or twice; also having a dog would mean that I'm on weekly food pantry visits for myself so the dorks can eat, rather than making those visits when I have school expenses AND a vet bill in the same month).

[Palimpsest]

Do they at least treat the poor critters well? :( I know someone who used to work with Greyhound adoption in Southern California -- I wonder how much dirt she has on Gentle Giants.

It isn't even grain free -- there's rice in that food. Now, to be fair, some dogs (even ones who can't handle wheat and corn) tolerate rice just fine. Mine *ahem* doesn't.

No, I don't think they treat the critters well. At all. As you may have already discovered there are anti-Gentle Giants sites. Gentle Giants are also sue-happy.

Please do follow up with your Greyhound adoption friend. All my info is second, third, or fourth hand. Although I do think that one glance at the Gentle Giants site should send any dog lover with half a brain running for the hills!

[nelliebelle1197]

That is really disappointing about Robin being a scammer. I guess those residual flows have stopped.

I am on the last of my three dogs- Max, 14, was put down 2 years ago. Nelliebelle (my beloved namesake and the best damn dog ever. Period.), 17, was put down last summer. Both of them were just so old and full of big and little dog old age issues that there was no fixing it.

Old Finnegan (15 in August) is still bopping along (poor fellow is proof Corgis and basset hounds should not date) but he has horrible gas due to age and an intestine that was surgically shortened years ago after he ate a corn cob. My dogs ate nothing but homemade raw food until the kids came along a few years ago. Finn still loves a good spinach salad but I have him on a grain free, locally made single protein food now because of the horror of his gas attacks.

My kids have only known older dogs; when Finn is gone, they will need a puppy. Their whole memories of our pets are of sickly or older dogs not too interested in the invaders who took over their house. They need a puppy, and I'd like another Jack Russell like Nellie. But I am terrified of breeders these days. No idea where to even start to find one that isn't skeevy.

[Palimpsest]

Palimpsest, North Shore Animal League is apparently importing in quantity :( LIke, thousands, not hundreds, because the demand for puppies is so high.

My guys eat a Diamond food (Kirkland) on kibble days and do really well on it, but.. yeah. I also have dogs with cast iron stomachs and no food allergies. (No allergies at all, actually- not sure how I got that lucky!)

DGayle, you asked about ' why is too few litters a bad thing' - this is a good article to read - http://www.instituteofcaninebiology.org ... -too-small - a very excellent science blog that is worth taking a look at if you're actually interested in learning about population genetics and health.

Bean, I honestly wouldn't necessarily feel bad about Amish or Mennonite eggs. Chickens *aren't*, for the most part, companion animals, and even the most attached chicken owners I know house their birds outdoors- and while they may learn to enjoy it, chickens don't really have the innate desire to connect with humans the way dogs mostly do. I know Amish folks who treat their working animals appropriately- maybe not with a ton of affection, but they take proper care of them, they're treated humanely, and receive appropriate care. This isn't universally true, but you can investigate and see for yourself how an individual situation is. (One usual bonus when it comes to layers is that they dont' tend to be truly huge operations- bigger than a backyard flock, for sure, but not the tens or hundreds of thousands that the really large scale guys have!)

Dogs aren't the same way- dogs are domesticated BECAUSE they want to form social bonds with humans. You can't NOT be affectionate without dogs without doing things wrong, so they don't fit into that situation. I'd rather they're making their living with eggs and meat animals than dogs!

Oh, shit. Triple shit. North Shore Animal League. They have been around for many years too. You know, I almost, so very nearly, mentioned them, but decided I didn't have quite enough reliable info. to blacken their name on the internetz.

There have been a few rumors about North Shore Animal League, but I didn't think my sources were that reliable. I had vaguely heard that they had deals with the devil in Puerto Rico for importing teeny tiny dogs (although PR is part of the US!) I was unaware they were shipping up dogs from the south without good quarantine. That sucks. Doing more research. :(

Too funny on the Kirkland! 2 of my pups are now thriving on the salmon and sweet potato (with my supplements). I used to be a dog food purist/snob/elitist Five Star Dog Food person, but our vet bills have been sky-high in the last two years. Kirkland seems a fair compromise, if not perfect. The 3rd (senior) dog is on a homemade low protein kidney diet. Renal failure. Still researching on that and any advice is welcome.

But get thee behind me, Mango, on the chickens! My small town had an ENORMOUS scandal recently because some chickens had an early demise (at the paws and jaws of some truly out of control BYB Goldens who are now in lock-down).

Apparently chickens bond really well with humans. And purchasers of those specific deceased chickens' eggs are in deep mourning. My town is totally traumatized. I kid you not!

I'm sorry, I just don't quite get chicken love. So sue me! :)

[Mango]

I really like having chickens, but my dogs ALSO really like me having chickens, and they're not very efficient predators, so ... no chickens for now. I'll have them again some day. But I'm also not blaming my dogs for being dogs. Overall though, I think it's really important NOT to blame the Amish for treating livestock like livestock- I think when it comes to farm animals, they really run the spectrum, much like any farmer, and it's on us to do the research. Unfortunately, the first tedious step of that research is to find otu what 'normal' practice is and then weigh if you are okay with that or not. (For example? I won't eat commercially raised pork because the way it is raised is not okay with me- but i'm not going to condemn a farmer for doing the exact same thing that everyone else does and that the industry standard says okay. I'll vote with my dollars to not support that industry. If I can't get pastured pork, I won't eat pork products. So I get bacon like once or twice a year because well, my willpower is weak and bacon occasionally wins, especially if it's already cooked at someone else's house.) I think it's pretty darn obvious what is okay with dogs- dogs are social family members and should get lots of human contact (almost certainly living in the house but there are possible exceptions even there- the human contact isn't negotiable though) - but livestock *aren't* pets and you can't judge them by the same standards. and most of us are out of touch enough with the reality of production animals to not think about it in great detail.

Nelliebelle, can I suggest starting here, for a JRT breeder? http://www.jrtcabreeders.com/ - the JRTCA has a very strict code of ethics (can't fully register a puppy based on pedigree- it must pass health exams and a soundness/type exam as an adult before it can be fully registered or used for breeding). I don't know any JRT people personally who breed that I'd recommend for a pet home (most of my friends with them are flyball people and breed for very intense little guys) but I can probably track down names if you want to PM me a region and stuffs. (You might also take a look at border terriers- I *do* have names for those guys and they're a bit more of a companion-y temperament for the most part although still DEFINITELY a terrier :D) We also, in this part of the country at least, get a lot of rat terriers, including youngish puppies, in rescue.

[Coldwinterskies]

I really encourage people to give shelters a chance and try inquiring at several shelters about adopting a certain breed before just automatically going to a breeder to buy a puppy. Just about every popular breed can be found at a shelter.

Some shelters will even offer to take down your name and call you when they get a dog of that breed, but even if they don't do that, you can check the "Available Dogs" website for several shelters for a few weeks and there is a good chance you can find a dog you like.

Yes, almost all shelters will end up with a lot of pit bulls because sadly irresponsible people love breeding pit bulls and then dumping the poor creatures at shelters. :cry: However, I have two poodle mixes that both came from my local shelter. My local shelter doesn't always have poodles available at any given time, but since poodles are popular dogs, homeless poodles and poodle do show up if you just watch the incoming dogs for a few weeks.

[Coldwinterskies]

I had vaguely heard that they had deals with the devil in Puerto Rico for importing teeny tiny dogs (although PR is part of the US!)

The situation for dogs in Puerto Rico is pretty grim, so I would not say that in itself is a bad thing at all.

There is a beach in Puerto Rico that is called "Dead Dog Beach" because that's where a lot of people dump their unwanted dogs, and evil people will go to that beach to torture and kill the poor helpless dogs. :cry: Here are some articles that talk about rescuers who are trying to help the dogs at Dead Dog Beach:

http://nypost.com/2014/08/24/hundreds-o ... erto-rico/

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/nyreg ... scuer.html

There are a number of rescue organizations that try to help "Satos" (the PR word for street dog) by caring for them and then sending them to the mainland USA where they have a better chance of adoption. A lot of these organizations actively seek tourists who are visiting Puerto Rico who will agree to let a rescued dog travel under your name on the plane trip home so they can send the dogs to a mainland rescue less expensively than shipping it independently.

Just a couple of them:

http://saveasato.org

http://www.thesatoproject.org