Ben Carson: Being Gay Is A Choice

[moodygirl86]

So how old were you, Carson, when you decided to fancy women?

[DomWackTroll]

Aren't this guy's colleagues at Johns Hopkins all like, "WTF?!!" I mean, seriously-- what is the average workday like? "I just hope these attached-at-the-skull siamese twins I'm separating don't grow up to be sodomites."

[whoviana]

I'd totally choose to be a homophone ;)

[polecat]

So let's pretend that being gay IS a choice. Let's say that we all come to a time of choosing -- 13 sounds like a pretty good time -- and everyone has to decide to be gay, straight or something in between (or not at all).

What exactly makes one choice better than another choice? And who's to say that one of the choices is better/worse than the other? Gay people might think straightness should be outlawed because the earth is too damned crowded. Meanwhile straight people want to ban gay people because I don't know.

Point being, we HAVE the freedom to choose everything else -- religion, job, etc. So why shouldn't we be allowed to CHOOSE who to love? Why shouldn't have the right to choose how we use our bodies (especially in this most intimate way)? As long as my sex life isn't hurting anyone and only involves other consenting adults, WHO ELSE does it actually affect? No one, that's who.

At the end of the day, though, people don't choose their sexuality any more than I chose my handedness. And being left-handed shouldn't be outlawed anymore than being gay should be. You don't get to outlaw PEOPLE. You might try to outlaw choices -- unconstitutionally, I might add -- but you cannot outlaw a PERSON.

[blessalessi]

Yeah, I've never understood why it would be a problem if being gay was a choice. :?

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Because only a married man and woman can raise decent children, duh.

[PennySycamore]

I'd totally choose to be a homophone ;)

I didn't notice the typo at first, but I stand by both of my likes.

[sockinshoe]

He's such a gross person. When you look at the actual interview, it becomes apparent within about 2 seconds that his logic is almost non-existent. Did anyone else read this comment as minimizing/excusing prison sexual assault? Because I did and that made me so livid.

[lilwriter85]

Aren't this guy's colleagues at Johns Hopkins all like, "WTF?!!" I mean, seriously-- what is the average workday like? "I just hope these attached-at-the-skull siamese twins I'm separating don't grow up to be sodomites."

I would love to hear what his colleagues think of him. They likely respect his surgical abilities, but I can imagine some of them wondering how Carson can be a total idiot on many things.

[Cleopatra7]

Yeah, I've never understood why it would be a problem if being gay was a choice. :?

It goes back to the whole "homosexuality is unnatural" argument. If something is "unnatural," then it stands to reason that one has to consciously choose to do it, since it is out of the ordinary. Also, many fundamentalists "don't believe in" sexual orientation. The only sanctioned outlet for sex is heterosexual marriage and anything outside of that is wrong. Because they don't believe that a person is inherently gay, a person can choose to do homosexual acts or not like any other sin. Alternatively, one could also choose to be heterosexual and have a "godly marriage" with a person of the opposite sex. I think that sexuality is rather complicated, but if people could simply choose their sexuality like they choose clothes, our society would be much different than it currently.

[Toothfairy]

The whole argument that homosexuality is unnatural is ridiculous. So what's natural? 50 years ago people said interracial relationships were unnatural. People said women working was unnatural. Having kids before marriage was unnatural, yet society accepted these "unnatural" acts.

Firstly, natural and unnatural are not moral guidance. To assume that natural equals good and unnatural equals bad, would be the Naturalistic fallacy, implying that planes, laptops, phones are all bad, while murder, cannibalism and rape are all good (as these things are natural). People need to understand that natural does not equal good, and unnatural does not equal bad. 

'Nature' is a concept used to describe processes or things that occur outside of human control. If we say 'natural disaster', we imply this disaster was not a direct cause of humans, where as war, is not a natural disaster. If we imply a material is natural, it is saying it it formed by something other than humans, like processes or another species (honey for example). Then when it comes to behavior or instincts, we would say something that exists outside of human control. You can't deny the fact that there are plenty of homosexuals and there always will be. It is only seen as unnatural due to society's construction of the perception of homosexuals. We see it like that because some people assume that heterosexuality is the better one because they are then able to procreate and produce the next generation, plus the fact that there are less homosexuals than heterosexuals. If it was seen to be unnatural, then an evolutionary approach would explain the fact that we should have evolved it out of the system thousands of years ago. If some people changed their view and stopped making a big deal about it, then what sounds like a biological hindrance is simply a social construction on how we view certain types of behaviour that we deem 'unnatural'

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Carson has just said vaccines are important and people shouldn't be able to refuse them, so now the evangelicals dislike him as well.

newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/622273

Saw a couple posts on facebook about it.

[pattygbucks]

WHY in hell would I be gay then?

Being gay is the reason why, in my twenties and in a position where most people still need/want their parents, we're like the two Koreas at the DMZ.

Being gay is a huge part of the reason my wife and I have such financial struggles, since my parents generally won't help even when they can.

These two statements in particular have been on my mind lately as I feel the second statement is what my DS may feel about me and my husband. I'd like to understand why you think the reason your parents generally won't help financially is because you are gay?

For us, that is not the WHY at all...it's so much more than that...but from his perspective, he saw us helping his straight brother and thinks we're not being fair or playing favorites. My younger son does not manage money well...he likes to do a lot of fun stuff...restaurants, clothes, bars, concerts, cell phone aps/ringtones/games...but then has trouble paying for rent, gas and groceries. It's not that we wouldn't help with the latter...but with all the $ he spends on the former, he doesn't really "need" the help, just makes choices we aren't willing to support...and it's not about sexual preference, it's about learning to live a lifestyle you can afford.

And...you're married, why do you think your parents should provide any financial support when you have established your own household? Our oldest married in May, he and his wife now must manage to live on their combined income. Our second wants to get married this summer...we have advised against it since their combined incomes can't pay the bills. It has nothing to do with sexual preference, it has to do with being an adult.

[PennySycamore]

pattygbucks,

The correct term is sexual orientation and not preference. Preference implies choice which sexual orientation is not.

[lawlifelgbt]

It's not ongoing support...we're just now facing a large, unexpected monthly expense. I'm not irresponsible. I can see not helping married kids, but it was a pretty stark situation. I have asthma, and meds cost about $200 a month with insurance. I've asked my parents for help, and they can afford to do so. Would you be willing to let your less financially-savvy son go without a need like that, regardless of how he spends his money?

Instead, I was told that because of my "bad choices," I now have to effectively choose between being completely broke all the time, or seriously risking my health. My wife and I live responsibly, but we just don't have the additional money right now. Aside from Netflix and Internet, we don't spend anything on entertainment.

[pattygbucks]

I have asthma, and meds cost about $200 a month with insurance. I've asked my parents for help, and they can afford to do so. Would you be willing to let your less financially-savvy son go without a need like that, regardless of how he spends his money?

I can't say for certain I would cover a needed med. But to restate...not because of sexual orientation. (@pennysycamore ;)

I get the problem, really I do. Where would you draw the line and say "no more $"? Meds...you say yes, they should help. What about rent? Food? Gas? Car repair? Child care? Electric bill? What happens when unexpected expenses keep piling on top of each other, ie this month meds, next month car repair, next month heating bill? The latter two happened to my son within the last 3 months...and then he didn't have the $ to renew his car license plates. We've told him he has two choices...spend less or make more.

Believe me, I've asked myself the same questions many times. and don't have answers. I have friends who ask the questions (most of my friends have kids in their 20somethings...). We've talked about the expense of a smart phone versus a prepaid flip phone. Or two cars instead of one. Or the liquid shower soap vs bar soap? Tide vs the generic brand laundry soap? They are all choices that affect the bank account.

I love my kids with all that I am, but at some point the help needs to stop. And I truly don't know when that is. I do know that once I got married I never consider asking my parents for help. We lived in a dump, walked, rode bikes, busses and carpooled to get to work. Ate Peanut Butter and Ramen for more meals than I care to count. I babysat and he worked fast food to make ends meet. Was it fun...not very often. Was it necessary...yes.

[feministxtian]

regarding adult children and parental help:

My youngest son and his wife hit some VERY hard times. VERY hard times. It boiled down to them (and my grandson) being homeless OR moving back in with mom & dad and getting on their feet. We had them move in with us. Its not easy, but we're making it work. My daughter-in-law is not working (she's a full time momma to the most adorable tornado you've ever seen), my son is working and going to school full time. We think it's more important to help them out while he's going to school than to leave them where they were. He should finish in December 2016 and hopefully will be fully self-supporting by then. While it's not the ideal situation, it is more important to me and his dad to inconvenience ourselves temporarily to help them succeed. AND...the joy of watching our grandson grow up makes it all worthwhile.

There's a possibility I might take a job in Denver...the opportunity is FANTASTIC...and they'll come with us. I found a house with a finished basement that has 2 bedrooms and a full bath...it would work well.

My parents helped me when I needed it. I will help my children when they need it. I've helped them ALL at one time or another...it's why, even though we're "empty nesters" we won't be downsizing into a smaller house any time soon. Its important to us to make sure we have a safe place for the kids to land if they need it.

[roddma]

'Leave and cleave' is a dangerous'. Everyone gets in scrape sometimes and especially a parent turning a blind eye is low down. When DH lost his last job, if it weren't fo my parents, we would not have survived this far. DH is at an age -and maybe me too- where finding jobs gets more difficult. he also has some health issues. But we arent just being handed this. He helps at the furniture store and I make money online. It's different when you move in with someone. It mean more food, and higher utilitities. Not trying to sound mean or calling your DIL lazy feministxtian@, but if anyone moved in with me I would expect them to contribute somehow financially even if they were relatives.The same would apply if I had to move in with anyone.

[feministxtian]

'Leave and cleave' is a dangerous'. Everyone gets in scrape sometimes and especially a parent turning a blind eye is low down. When DH lost his last job, if it weren't fo my parents, we would not have survived this far. DH is at an age -and maybe me too- where finding jobs gets more difficult. he also has some health issues. But we arent just being handed this. He helps at the furniture store and I make money online. It's different when you move in with someone. It mean more food, and higher utilitities. Not trying to sound mean or calling your DIL lazy feministxtian@, but if anyone moved in with me I would expect them to contribute somehow financially even if they were relatives.The same would apply if I had to move in with anyone.

Son and DIL have a 2 year old son. Daycare for him is OUTRAGEOUS. My son is working full time and contributes (they buy all the groceries). He also paid for gas before he got his truck. DIL does ALL the housework and a good part of the critter care too...so, I do/wt expect her to work when daycare for the little one would run 200/wk. Son works full time and goes to school 3 nights a week. My husband is disabled and does volunteer work at the local VA hospital. I work full time. It works for us, The utilities aren't that much more, well...maybe the water bill, but son happily kicks in when asked. We want to help them while he's in school, as my mother did us. My dad died while I was in school so we moved in with her to help her out and she helped us out. We have a BIG house so there's more than enough room for the 5 of us. DIL plans on going to school this fall and it will be easier for them to live with us so they don't have to worry about child care. Little man is going to be 3 this fall, so hopefully he can go to preschool while mama is in school.

I didn't really think I had to go into the financial ins and outs of how our family is currently working, nor did I think I'd have to defend my choices. This is what is currently working for our family and we hope that we can continue to do this until my son finishes school next year. Once he finishes school, they'll be able to get on their feet rather quickly.

[lawlifelgbt]

I'm glad to see that completely leaving and cleaving, and never helping adult kids isn't the norm! I didn't mean to start a debate, I'm just frustrated at having this burden on me because my parents disapprove of my marriage/sexual orientation. When I pass the bar, money won't be a problem any more, at least not to this extent, so I don't expect any more than six months or so of my parents helping in this regard. That's 1200, an amount I will be able to pay back if needed.

I didn't want to get too detailed, but I assume people know generally how asthma works? Without medicine, I'd be saddled with even more expensive ER visits. Or, you know, I'd die from lack of oxygen. As in, permanent. In the ground. Wife crying over my body. Knowing this and reflecting on some emergencies I've gone through, it really makes me wonder why my parents took the stance they did. Do they not know how bad things can get, or is it something worse? It's not like I'm asking for other expenses, shelter, etc. I think my issue is less about making ends meet and more about the ends being just too far apart! I don't like that we're putting ourselves in credit card debt to pay my prescription costs, but I really don't see another way that doesn't risk my health.

[feministxtian]

I'm glad to see that completely leaving and cleaving, and never helping adult kids isn't the norm! I didn't mean to start a debate, I'm just frustrated at having this burden on me because my parents disapprove of my marriage/sexual orientation. When I pass the bar, money won't be a problem any more, at least not to this extent, so I don't expect any more than six months or so of my parents helping in this regard. That's 1200, an amount I will be able to pay back if needed.

I didn't want to get too detailed, but I assume people know generally how asthma works? Without medicine, I'd be saddled with even more expensive ER visits. Or, you know, I'd die from lack of oxygen. As in, permanent. In the ground. Wife crying over my body. Knowing this and reflecting on some emergencies I've gone through, it really makes me wonder why my parents took the stance they did. Do they not know how bad things can get, or is it something worse? It's not like I'm asking for other expenses, shelter, etc. I think my issue is less about making ends meet and more about the ends being just too far apart! I don't like that we're putting ourselves in credit card debt to pay my prescription costs, but I really don't see another way that doesn't risk my health.

Gonna go off on a mama rant here...

Do you mean to tell me that your folks won't help out to the tune of 200 bucks a month for MEDICATION because they "disapprove" of your sexual orientation???? REALLY??? That is BEYOND FUCKED UP!!!! Jesus H Christ...my kids have done SHIT TONS of shit I didn't "approve" of...HOWEVER...they are MY children and I am their MOTHER and no matter how fucking old they get, as their mom, I WILL help them however I can...fuck me running...can I go beat the shit out of your parents for being assholes? Right now, if I had the cash, I'd send you a check...

[lawlifelgbt]

Well, I was told, "You got married. You made that choice. That means you deal with the consequences of being on your own." They're framing it as leave and cleave, not dislike or homophobia, but they also said my getting married was a "bad choice." So. The funny thing is, they are paying for my bar prep. I guess you put your resources in whatever will make you look good because of your kid's success. I can't figure their logic. I've looked into proofreading or tutoring for extra money, but things are pretty dead on that front.

[feministxtian]

I don't get it. I REALLY don't get it! My son is married...they're going through some stuff so his dad and I feel we should help them out. "Leave and cleave" is all well and good, BUT...I can't believe that parents would shell out for bar prep and not for necessary medication.

Ok...rant over....

[moodygirl86]

Well, I was told, "You got married. You made that choice. That means you deal with the consequences of being on your own." They're framing it as leave and cleave, not dislike or homophobia, but they also said my getting married was a "bad choice." So. The funny thing is, they are paying for my bar prep. I guess you put your resources in whatever will make you look good because of your kid's success. I can't figure their logic. I've looked into proofreading or tutoring for extra money, but things are pretty dead on that front.

At the risk of sounding rude/judgmental about your parents, Lawlife, it does seem rather selfish and hypocritical of them, thinking your status/academic success is more important than your medication for a serious health issue. If I wasn't unemployed, I'd seriously consider wiring you a few bob from across the pond!

[lawlifelgbt]

I agree, moodygirl. It's okay that you said that, as I really don't have much of a relationship with my parents. I agreed, with them at the beginning of my law school career, that they would pay for costs/fees associated with exams and school (not tuition though). Then when I got married, they said that "we're not giving you any support not related to school [because you got married without our "permission"]. I guess it makes sense, but right now it's leading to absurd consequences.

I was a student copyeditor for about 18 months on my college newspaper, and helped friends proofread (not write!) papers. Even so, I improved people's grades by a letter or so in writing-heavy classes! I may set up a platform online to get payment for proofreading and/or writing tips, as right now I'm just doing that in person.

I also would (and still do) help friends/kids/people I know with classwork (tutoring/studying with for anything except math, chem, or physics- and I can even teach lower-level Spanish and German). I just need to convert that into work and fit it around school and exams...I'd rather do something for money than take charity, if I'm going to need additional income, you know?