Musser family - disabled son dies in accidental drowning

[FreeHannie!]

All I can think reading KF:

[2xx1xy1JD]

Kate:

Self-righteous attitudes like yours, which put all the blame for accidental child deaths on the parents and label those parents as horrible and neglectful, actually INCREASE the risk that children will die.

Why? Because most parents do not consider themselves stupid or neglectful.

If a parent is convinced that accidents will only happen to THOSE parents, and that they are careful and intelligent, they will tend to assume that their children are not at risk. That's dangerous. It takes the focus off of the fact that certain things are objectively risky - much more risky than people think - and that we need more public awareness and to be pro-active in preventing certain types of accidents.

Most parents will freak out over the possibility of their child being kidnapped by a stranger, but will completely underestimate the risk posed by bathtubs, swimming pools and other types of water. Many people wrongly believe that a drowning child would make some sort of noise or attract some attention. Parents need to know that ordinary parents, who have more than 3 brain cells, can find themselves distracted for a moment. They need that training IN ADVANCE to know that if there is a young child in the bath, you can't step out for even a moment and you need to take them out of the bath and the bathroom if they really need to attend to another child. They need to be trained to see that a backyard swimming pool is the equivalent of a loaded gun. They need to know that children, by nature, will wander, and that it is possible for a small child to drown even if lots of adults are in the area. They need to know that it's impossible to safety watch young children in the pool while reading a book or looking at your phone.

Same thing for other types of risks. Most parents would say, "of course you can't leave a baby in a hot car", but they may not realize that it tends to happen when the brain goes on autopilot and the child is simply forgotten. If you don't think that it can happen to you because you are a "good" parent, you don't take the steop to prevent it from happening - like always checking the back seat, always putting your wallet beside the car seat, using alarms, having daycare call parents if a child is not dropped off, etc.

[SassyPants]

I understand accidents, I really, really do, but as a former Nicu/Picu nurse, I have a very difficult time with drownings. People have to know that you can not leave infants, toddlers, children and anyone with special needs unsupervised by another adult in areas with water. This is not negotiable and a no-brainer. This is not shelving pulled on a child or a break free dart into traffic. This is a bad decision made.

In the current case of discussion, Mrs M walked away from a SN person in water. I doubt it was the first time or the first child to be left in water, unsupervised. There was a photo on her blog with she and a couple of kids (maybe 3) sitting in a stream...if one of those kids would have tumbled in face first, the others would have been at risk too. IMO, it seems perhaps this mother did not fully understand the dangers of youngsters (age or mentality) and water.

Education is key. I hope SM was mandated to attend some safety education.

[KateFowler]

I understand accidents, I really, really do, but as a former Nicu/Picu nurse, I have a very difficult time with drownings. People have to know that you can not leave infants, toddlers, children and anyone with special needs unsupervised by another adult in areas with water. This is not negotiable and a no-brainer. This is not shelving pulled on a child or a break free dart into traffic. This is a bad decision made.

In the current case of discussion, Mrs M walked away from a SN person in water. I doubt it was the first time or the first child to be left in water, unsupervised. There was a photo on her blog with she and a couple of kids (maybe 3) sitting in a stream...if one of those kids would have tumbled in face first, the others would have been at risk too. IMO, it seems perhaps this mother did not fully understand the dangers of youngsters (age or mentality) and water.

Education is key. I hope SM was mandated to attend some safety education.

Thank you, thank you, thank you SassyPants! I wholeheartedly agree -- there are SO very many non-preventable accidents and drowning-in-the-tub is NOT among them. Tommy didn't deserve to die like that. No child does.

Also, the person who said Susanna didn't set up the paypal donation link -- if Susanna didn't need the money, the only ethical thing to so is thank the person with the good intentions, tell her to shut down the donations page and return every.single.penny to the donors. If those generous souls still want to help or honor the Mussers? They can donate directly to an ACTUAL licensed 501c3 charity directly, on the Mussers behalf.

[Mama Mia]

Thank you, thank you, thank you SassyPants! I wholeheartedly agree -- there are SO very many non-preventable accidents and drowning-in-the-tub is NOT among them. Tommy didn't deserve to die like that. No child does.

Also, the person who said Susanna didn't set up the paypal donation link -- if Susanna didn't need the money, the only ethical thing to so is thank the person with the good intentions, tell her to shut down the donations page and return every.single.penny to the donors. If those generous souls still want to help or honor the Mussers? They can donate directly to an ACTUAL licensed 501c3 charity directly, on the Mussers behalf.

Really, you don't think his mother knows that ? The entire POINT is that she had a lapse in judgement. If you read her blog post she says it was about an inch of water, she didn't think he was strong enough to turn the tap and so on. Basically she mistakenly thought he was safe. She was wrong. Piling on the guilt isn't going to help in any way, shape, or form.

At what age did you allow your children to first be alone for a couple of minutes in the tub? What if you were wrong?

And as to the accidents you say " aren't the same" , you can bet your ass that if one of her children HAD run into the street, or pulled something heavy on themselves -- some hideous, judgmental bitch would be talking about how on EARTH could ANY parent with 3 brain cells let that happen! Why weren't they supervised? THEIR children know to hold hands and not run away! Or she should have had the child in a stroller! Or Why wasn't the furniture bolted to the wall? If it was at a relatives house-- why wasn't someone watching the child better. This accident would NEVER happen to their child. Because judgmental, superior bitches just can't help themselves.

[nelliebelle1197]

Thank you, thank you, thank you SassyPants! I wholeheartedly agree -- there are SO very many non-preventable accidents and drowning-in-the-tub is NOT among them. Tommy didn't deserve to die like that. No child does.

Also, the person who said Susanna didn't set up the paypal donation link -- if Susanna didn't need the money, the only ethical thing to so is thank the person with the good intentions, tell her to shut down the donations page and return every.single.penny to the donors. If those generous souls still want to help or honor the Mussers? They can donate directly to an ACTUAL licensed 501c3 charity directly, on the Mussers behalf.

Yeah, I am not really thinking SassyPants is necessarily backing you up. She is simply saying drowning deaths are hard for her. YOU are just cruel.

Something is really missing with you, dear. If you can drive Mama Mia to the rant above ( :clap: for MM) then you really are a piece of work. I feel really sorry for your kids. Growing up with a mother so hard that she has no empathy must be really difficult for them

What's your MO here, anyway? You seem to be mostly necro'ing old threads on adoption. Old friend of Susanna's? Anyway, I am sure it is passed time for your meds. Toddle on now.

[SassyPants]

Really, you don't think his mother knows that ? The entire POINT is that she had a lapse in judgement. If you read her blog post she says it was about an inch of water, she didn't think he was strong enough to turn the tap and so on. Basically she mistakenly thought he was safe. She was wrong. Piling on the guilt isn't going to help in any way, shape, or form.

At what age did you allow your children to first be alone for a couple of minutes in the tub? What if you were wrong?

And as to the accidents you say " aren't the same" , you can bet your ass that if one of her children HAD run into the street, or pulled something heavy on themselves -- some hideous, judgmental bitch would be talking about how on EARTH could ANY parent with 3 brain cells let that happen! Why weren't they supervised? THEIR children know to hold hands and not run away! Or she should have had the child in a stroller! Or Why wasn't the furniture bolted to the wall? If it was at a relatives house-- why wasn't someone watching the child better. This accident would NEVER happen to their child. Because judgmental, superior bitches just can't help themselves.

IIRC, SM originally said that she left a 7yo child in charge of Tommy in the tub. So, she apparently knew enough, not to leave him fully alone. I will judge people who add huge numbers to their family by relying on the resources of minor children to help the family safely operate...I find that practice very unsavory.

I am sorry that you believe that you can speak for others, particularly people you do not personally know, yet you feel qualified to judge.

:Shrugs.:

I go by the facts. My "none swimming" children were never left alone in a tub or in an area with open water. I wouldn't even take them swimming by myself until they were 10 and 7- Yep, when you work with and see the disastrous side effects, you do not take certain chances.

IMO, the water/tub is a no-brainer. I am also surprised that he could get to the faucet and turn it on, without anyone in that home hearing a thing. No crashing or thrashing and no water running.

I do feel sympathy for all concerned. Mrs M will have to live with that decision forever- she certainly did not get off scot-free.

[nelliebelle1197]

IIRC, SM originally said that she left a 7yo child in charge of Tommy in the tub. So, she apparently knew enough, not to leave him fully alone. I will judge people who add huge numbers to their family by relying on the resources of minor children to help the family safely operate...I find that practice very unsavory.

I am sorry that you believe that you can speak for others, particularly people you do not personally know, yet you feel qualified to judge.

:Shrugs.:

I go by the facts. My "none swimming" children were never left alone in a tub or in an area with open water. I wouldn't even take them swimming by myself until they were 10 and 7- Yep, when you work with and see the disastrous side effects, you do not take certain chances.

IMO, the water/tub is a no-brainer. I am also surprised that he could get to the faucet and turn it on, without anyone in that home hearing a thing. No crashing or thrashing and no water running.

I do feel sympathy for all concerned. Mrs M will have to live with that decision forever- she certainly did not get off scot-free.

I know plenty of doctors, nurses, lawyers firefighters and others who deal with tragedy yet who are not so afraid of consequences that they shelter to their children to the point of paranoia. I am also totally confused by someone who makes statements like I am sorry that you believe that you can speak for others, particularly people you do not personally know, yet you feel qualified to judge. yet feel they have a right to judge others they do not know. Hypocrisy much?

[2xx1xy1JD]

I understand accidents, I really, really do, but as a former Nicu/Picu nurse, I have a very difficult time with drownings. People have to know that you can not leave infants, toddlers, children and anyone with special needs unsupervised by another adult in areas with water. This is not negotiable and a no-brainer. This is not shelving pulled on a child or a break free dart into traffic. This is a bad decision made.

In the current case of discussion, Mrs M walked away from a SN person in water. I doubt it was the first time or the first child to be left in water, unsupervised. There was a photo on her blog with she and a couple of kids (maybe 3) sitting in a stream...if one of those kids would have tumbled in face first, the others would have been at risk too. IMO, it seems perhaps this mother did not fully understand the dangers of youngsters (age or mentality) and water.

Education is key. I hope SM was mandated to attend some safety education.

I agree that education is key.

The AVERAGE parent - not the exceptionally negligent parent - will underestimate the risk of drowning.

If other parents dismiss a tragic case in their minds because they can tell themselves that the other parent was simply negligent and stupid, they won't change their own behaviors. Instead, parents need to know that things that they assumed were safe, things that they themselves do, are actually really risky. Drowning is the leading cause of death in children ages 1-4 after birth defects. We need to change everyone's perception of risk.

[dairyfreelife]

Susanna did say she did not need the money for the funeral and chose to donate it to charity instead, so that point is dumb. How about SP and KF stop being self-righteous know-it-alls who believe their children will NEVER die from any mishap of theirs. I read a blogger a few years ago who's young son pulled a shelf on top of him. He died at the hospital a short while later. It was an accident. She had people asking why she did not nail the shelf to the wall. Because she needed people reminding her of how she could have maybe prevented the accident as if she never thought of it herself. :roll:

And all technically all accidents are preventable in reality. They are called accidents for a reason. One mistake can cost a life.

I have read many bloggers who have lost children due to drowning or their child is permanently mentally damaged because of a drowning accident.

sullengers.com/

amkelly.blogspot.com/

hebbsters.blogspot.com/

aninchofgray.blogspot.com/

adailyscoop.blogspot.com/

lookingforbluesky.blogspot.com/

howsluke.blogspot.com/

prayforabby.com/

prayforaidan.com/

christiansjourney.org/

prayforizzy.blogspot.com/

josephslifejourney.blogspot.com/

samuelsmiracle.com/updates/

prayforsantana.org/

[KateFowler]

Lots of kids die or are horrifically injured (comatose, g-tube fed) in 100% preventable drownings. Their parents and siblings are devastated & blog to implore others not to repeat their mistakes.

This makes SM's decision to leave Tommy in the tub, inadequately supervised, resulting in his death better, how, exactly?

[dairyfreelife]

That you missed the entire point of my post says a lot. I am done with KF. Hope she enjoys that spot on the top of the high horse.

So, anyone have any tips for a damaged nail bed?

[eh02]

This is such an awful topic :( I feel for their family. To expect any parent to have 24/7 focus on even one very healthy child is just unrealistic. Your time and attention is spread thinner the more you have, particularly when you have children requiring a lot of assistance.

SO many children die from drowning, and I admit that it is hard for me to accept that ignorance of associated risk is necessarily enough to justify the outcome as an accident vs. negligence. If a paid caretaker left him in the tub unsupervised, I do believe it would be seen as negligent. But how do you make that determination for a parent, where the "job" is 24/7? Is it different? This is a mother who clearly had the best of intentions. I guess I just struggle trying to figure out where the fuzzy line is drawn and when something becomes negligence in a legal sense. Does anyone have professional input on that?

I hope their family is able to heal as best as can be expected from this. It is just tragic and I wish so badly that nobody would ever have to go through this. Being a human is just horrible sometimes.

[Mama Mia]

Lots of kids die or are horrifically injured (comatose, g-tube fed) in 100% preventable drownings. Their parents and siblings are devastated & blog to implore others not to repeat their mistakes.

This makes SM's decision to leave Tommy in the tub, inadequately supervised, resulting in his death better, how, exactly?

I asked you before, and you didn't answer. At what age did you first leave your children unsupervised for a minute or two in the tub --- and what if you had misjudged their maturity and safety level?

The same question applies for the other one with the superiority complex.

[nelliebelle1197]

MM, don't feed the troll. Not worth it. There have been so many hateful people on here the last couple months. I am not sure why we have the hatepocolypse deluge, but hopefully have had our homophobic, racist, disability-phobic (who knew???!) and just plain old mean people.

Have I shown you guys this? I don't do my nails much but I love this brand!

http://www.sephora.com/shifters-P382107?skuId=1545938

[SassyPants]

I know plenty of doctors, nurses, lawyers firefighters and others who deal with tragedy yet who are not so afraid of consequences that they shelter to their children to the point of paranoia. I am also totally confused by someone who makes statements like I am sorry that you believe that you can speak for others, particularly people you do not personally know, yet you feel qualified to judge. yet feel they have a right to judge others they do not know. Hypocrisy much?

Hypocrisy= judging someone who has done nothing wrong, based on words and words only.

Tommy is dead- I judged based on decisions made that lead to the death of a special needs child.

If you can not see the difference between the 2 situations, I can only :shrug:

Lol- my kids aren't sheltered. My now 27 yo moved to a foreign country at age 22, works, is married and has an infant.

Using common sense is not paranoia...living, healthy, contributing offspring is all the proof I need. I am sure others use other parameters.

Again, I hope this mom has received all the help that she needs-including reeducation in basic safety measures...she has too many kids that rely on her knowledge base.

[chaotic life]

I'm a big fan of OPI, Nellie, it holds up to my work demands. But I have played with magnetic polish for my girls and they think it's really cool stuff.

[Mama Mia]

MM, don't feed the troll. Not worth it. There have been so many hateful people on here the last couple months. I am not sure why we have the hatepocolypse deluge, but hopefully have had our homophobic, racist, disability-phobic (who knew???!) and just plain old mean people.

Have I shown you guys this? I don't do my nails much but I love this brand!

http://www.sephora.com/shifters-P382107?skuId=1545938

Pretty, pretty pretty! I NEED that Rose Gold one.

[church_of_dog]

Pretty, pretty pretty! I NEED that Rose Gold one.

I wish I could join this conversation but this is all I know about nails: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

[Maggie Mae]

I wish I could join this conversation but this is all I know about nails: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

I'm with you, CoD. I sometimes (like twice a year) paint my nails. It never looks that good and it chips after, like, a day. :(

[2xx1xy1JD]

Susanna did say she did not need the money for the funeral and chose to donate it to charity instead, so that point is dumb. How about SP and KF stop being self-righteous know-it-alls who believe their children will NEVER die from any mishap of theirs. I read a blogger a few years ago who's young son pulled a shelf on top of him. He died at the hospital a short while later. It was an accident. She had people asking why she did not nail the shelf to the wall. Because she needed people reminding her of how she could have maybe prevented the accident as if she never thought of it herself. :roll:

And all technically all accidents are preventable in reality. They are called accidents for a reason. One mistake can cost a life.

I have read many bloggers who have lost children due to drowning or their child is permanently mentally damaged because of a drowning accident.

sullengers.com/

amkelly.blogspot.com/

hebbsters.blogspot.com/

aninchofgray.blogspot.com/

adailyscoop.blogspot.com/

lookingforbluesky.blogspot.com/

howsluke.blogspot.com/

prayforabby.com/

prayforaidan.com/

christiansjourney.org/

prayforizzy.blogspot.com/

josephslifejourney.blogspot.com/

samuelsmiracle.com/updates/

prayforsantana.org/

Those blog are heartbreaking.

I'm one of those parents who never realized the danger of furniture tipping until my son was screaming from underneath a dresser. We knew about securing book shelves to the wall. We had childproofed the house, and even had a company come in with suggestions. Still, it hadn't occurred to me that the furniture in MY room needed to be safe from a 4 yr old who might pull out multiple drawers or try to climb.

Here's more about that danger: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/48573739/ns/h ... HLHmIca1pE

I'm very lucky that my son was ok. Clearly, the accident was potentially fatal.

[Mama Mia]

Those blog are heartbreaking.

I'm one of those parents who never realized the danger of furniture tipping until my son was screaming from underneath a dresser. We knew about securing book shelves to the wall. We had childproofed the house, and even had a company come in with suggestions. Still, it hadn't occurred to me that the furniture in MY room needed to be safe from a 4 yr old who might pull out multiple drawers or try to climb.

Here's more about that danger: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/48573739/ns/h ... HLHmIca1pE

I'm very lucky that my son was ok. Clearly, the accident was potentially fatal.

That's what is getting me so angry about some of the responses on this thread. All parents are aware, to varying degrees of potential dangers, and try to protect against them. Many parents have some hot button issue they are hyper-vigilant about. But no parent, at least no parent who is remotely healthy, is going to be hyper-vigilant and aware of every single issue. And even the most careful parent might either misjudge a particular danger, misjudge a particular child, or just have a momentary lapse.

I saw the effects on my family of this one accidental death 50 years later. The mother was still obsessed about it. The parents had blamed each other ( disagreement over who had supposed to have been watching the toddler) , the siblings were all huge effected, it just destroyed their family. The last thing they would have needed is some jerk with a superiority complex pointing out how they should of done it differently. Or, worse that they were complete idiots not to have bolted the furniture to the wall.

[Terrie]

I'm with you, CoD. I sometimes (like twice a year) paint my nails. It never looks that good and it chips after, like, a day. :(

Are you using a base coat and top coat? I love chine glaze's Fast Forward for a top coat. Smooth as glass and dries quicky. I admit, China Glaze is a favorite of mine. I love, love, love Dorothy Who

[Firiel]

So, I've always felt that when I put nail polish on, it makes my nails really breakable. Like, nail polish comes off and then my nails start cracking and flaking off. Is that a thing?

[nelliebelle1197]

Are you using a base coat and top coat? I love chine glaze's Fast Forward for a top coat. Smooth as glass and dries quicky. I admit, China Glaze is a favorite of mine. I love, love, love Dorothy Who

Does China Glaze have good top coats? I have been using Essie. I don't paint my nails much but the Shifters and the Butter metallics made me cave. I just loooove to look at the pretty sparkly silvers, coppers, bronzes and golds on my stubby little nails.