Give me Liberty (Phillips) - Photos from Normandy

[Deleted12]

If it happened in the UK, she would have been treated in a NHS hospital - shock! Horror!

Socialized medicine? Her eternal salvation is at risk.

[MamaJunebug]

On her FB page. Which we are by consensus All Avoiding, lest she make it private & we miss more interesting stories of life in the patriarsy.

[fundiefan]

I don't feel bad for her at all. No matter how she was raised, she DOES have a brain and a sense of self preservation. She chooses to follow the line rather than think or feel for herself.

Most - not all, but most, people would not travel half way around the world when they have a 2 week old baby - or have given birth a mere two weeks ago. If that's what she chose, then she gets to live with the consequences.

Does god really answer your prayers when you refuse to acknowledge the common sense he gave you?

Have the Brown's or Bradrick's or even Dougie, the one responsible for the trip, acknowledged or mentioned that anything happened?

No. The silence is deafening.

They aren't even talking of the miracle of their god for saving here. They know every single person fucked up and there is no way to spin it.

[MamaJunebug]

I don't feel bad for her at all. No matter how she was raised, she DOES have a brain and a sense of self preservation. She chooses to follow the line rather than think or feel for herself.

Most - not all, but most, people would not travel half way around the world when they have a 2 week old baby - or have given birth a mere two weeks ago. If that's what she chose, then she gets to live with the consequences.

Does god really answer your prayers when you refuse to acknowledge the common sense he gave you?

Would've really killed me if something had happened to that baby.

You asked if God answers one's prayers if one behaves foolishly. I was taught - and I believe - that She answers every prayer, just not always to our liking.

I had "League of grateful sons" playing today as I housecleaned (I have an essay in mind to write about "League") andseveral times saw young Kelly featured alongside her brother, listening to their gramps in slo-mo. Her recent situation in mind, it was striking tosee how passive and docile she appeared, showing no emotion but posing as instructed, her blonde beauty in such contrast to the brother's oblique, almost clumsy look.

It occurred to me that her whole life until now, complete obedience to instructions had worked just fine for her.

[starfish]

Free Kelly!

[fundiefan]

Without question it would have killed me, confused me and honestly affected me if something had happened to that baby. Only, I think we all make choices and if you make the choice to take your newborn half way around the world and go yourself days after giving birth, you make a stupid, dangerous choice. And, all choices have consequences.

No matter what prayer any god may answer, if that god created you, that god gave you a brain, a conscience and some common sense.

Whatever environment you grew up in, if you go with the flow just 'because' you don't know any better, it's because you haven't used your god given brain to think of better.

[Love]

What is League of Grateful Sons? I'm really curious what thats about.

[hoipolloi]

What is League of Grateful Sons? I'm really curious what thats about.

League of Grateful Sons is a VF film (http://www.leagueofgratefulsons.com/), one of the first, if not the first, of Dougie's all-expenses paid vacations masquerading as adventures in film-making.

The Browns, including Kelly (unmarried then) and Scott's father, a WW II vet, were involved as were Dougie's sons, interns, and assorted other VF strap-hangers.

Like the recently concluded Normandy "jourtney," it was intended to be a tribute to the valor of those who fought in WWII, as told from a VF perspective. I've only seen clips of it, not the whole thing, but it appears to have some minimal content.

[Sola]

On her FB page. Which we are by consensus All Avoiding, lest she make it private & we miss more interesting stories of life in the patriarsy.

Well I would imagine that the doctors would have wanted to know what the hell she was doing coming half way round the world 2 weeks after childbirth. I am in the slightest bit surprised that something like this has happened and she is only lucky that it wasn't something much worse like an embolism.

I had a look through the comments on her fb and am quite annoyed at one of them which states that god is the best physician and he is the one who saved her life. Hmm, what about the NHS (presuming she was in the UK and going on the timing she was) doctor who diagnosed her, the NHS surgeon who performed the DnC and the NHS nurses who cared for her post operatively? Sure the NHS will bill her for her care, but without the wonders of socialised medicine, she would have been well and truly fucked.

[Brainsample]

I saw that new photo of Kelly's baby and thought it was some stock photo from one of Saddam Hussain's old haunts. The woman holding the baby looks like she's wearing some kind of head covering or burja, and everyone's in olive drab military gear.

Who would even remotely want to go on that jaunt with a newborn? She could have gone into DIC and died on the plane. But, then.... She would have died for Jesus if that had happened. Sola Gravida!

brainsample (aka undermuchgrace in my pre-rapture life) See reintro.

[MamaJunebug]

Free Kelly!

I honestly doubt she *wants to be freed. At this point she's probably incapable of independent thought, having let others handle *that for her entire life.

As I posted elsewhere, I think/believe it's right to thank God in every occasion, even when Her will is so obscure to us. But I agree with another FJian: that thoughtless, bandwagon chorus over on FB of how gawd is sew goooood to her is getting on my nerves. Do any of these people think even to say, "Thank God for providing skilled & educated physicians"???? Heckno apparently.

And I wonder why this is so. Is their concept of god too fragile to acknowledge that God works thru people?

So damnably confused, that lot!!!!!!

[uber frau]

Socialized medicine? Her eternal salvation is at risk.

She's an American citizen so her salvation is safe. Hopefully they have insurance because the NHS doesn't want godly, free-market US souls.

[Sola]

She may be an American citizen, but if she was taken to hospital by paramedics she would have been taken to a NHS hospital Accident and Emergency unit. From there she might have been transferred to a private hospital if she had insurance that covered that. But her initial hospitalisation would have been in an NHS hospital the same as anyone else over here. She'll get billed for her care obviously, she wont get it for free - though I'd like to bet she'll be surprised how low her hospital bill will be compared to what it would have been had this happened on her home soil.

[treemom]

She may be an American citizen, but if she was taken to hospital by paramedics she would have been taken to a NHS hospital Accident and Emergency unit. From there she might have been transferred to a private hospital if she had insurance that covered that. But her initial hospitalisation would have been in an NHS hospital the same as anyone else over here. She'll get billed for her care obviously, she wont get it for free - though I'd like to bet she'll be surprised how low her hospital bill will be compared to what it would have been had this happened on her home soil.

Not the NHS but I can give you an idea.

In Dec 2009 I tripped on firewood and broke my ankle. Went to the ER here. We have decent enough insurance and paid about 400 dollars out of pocket for the initial er trip. The total bill which was Xrays, a shot of narcotic, and a walking boot was 3500.

In April 2011, I rolled my ankle on the stairs when I was in our Canadian office in BC. WEnt to the ER. I had to pay out of pocket because the moronic company I work for had no clue how to handle workers comp for US employees in Canada. Xrays and dr visit was 500.00 total.

Admittedly they wouldn't give me drugs and didn't need a boot. But a 3K difference is a pretty big deal.

[Sola]

Well exactly Treemom. These fundies really have screwed up mentalities. They rage on about how the government is screwing them over and private enterprise is the key, but in reality it is the private sector which is screwing them over.

[treemom]

Well exactly Treemom. These fundies really have screwed up mentalities. They rage on about how the government is screwing them over and private enterprise is the key, but in reality it is the private sector which is screwing them over.

Since it was a workplace injury I had to see one of 3 dr's my company suggested when I returned and wanted to see an orthopedic guy.

The one I picked was an asshat who actually said "I just can't believe they even bothered to Xray you in Canada...they aren't know for good care"

To which I asked" Oh you have a lot of experience as a patient there"

I mean for fucks sake...I had a grapfruit on my ankle. I think it wasn't exactly shocking I needed an Xray.

[Sola]

Just been looking into it actually. Kelly's initial treatment in an A&E dept would be free. She would have to pay for the paramedic transfer to hospital and once she was admitted, all costs incurred from then.

I got to thinking about it earlier and she probably would have been placed on a post natal ward so she could have her baby with her. She'd have access then to the midwives for any concerns with the baby too. However on discharge, we all get the, 'Now, what are your plans for contraception?' so Kelly would have too. Plus she would have been handed a bag of condoms free of charge!

[justlurking]

She may be an American citizen, but if she was taken to hospital by paramedics she would have been taken to a NHS hospital Accident and Emergency unit. From there she might have been transferred to a private hospital if she had insurance that covered that.

Welp, we can nip that theory in the bud. These fundies are too "holy" for evil health insurance. They'd rather pay into some crazy Christian medical share program where they have to get verification from their pastor before being able to post a claim. Plus, you know that old gargoyle she's married to is probably too cheap to purchase coverage for a family as large as theirs is.

[Sola]

Well if she didn't have insurance, she would have had to pay for her treatment upfront in a NHS hospital. Unless her condition was life threatening, in which case it would have been carried out and then billed later.

[treemom]

Well if she didn't have insurance, she would have had to pay for her treatment upfront in a NHS hospital. Unless her condition was life threatening, in which case it would have been carried out and then billed later.

Even if she had insurance there is almost no chance she would have not had to pay upfront. My medical insurance which is a pretty standard US plan *might* reimburse me for overseas treatment but definitely does not direct pay. Not even for Canada.

Travel insurance almost never pays upfront. It will arrange an airlift usually...but they don't pay upfront for medical care. (or rarely and if they do the premium is high)

[MamaJunebug]

Welp, we can nip that theory in the bud. These fundies are too "holy" for evil health insurance. They'd rather pay into some crazy Christian medical share program where they have to get verification from their pastor before being able to post a claim. Plus, you know that old gargoyle she's married to is probably too cheap to purchase coverage for a family as large as theirs is.

"Gargoyle"! Hee-hee! Hee-hee! He *does look like a gargoyle, especially when he hunches over. Which seems to be, usually.

[Sola]

Wow, I have never had travel insurance where I would have had to pay upfront. Never had to claim on it thankfully, but if I had you phone the insurance people and they deal direct with the hospital. I think the only thing you would have to pay upfront for is for minor injury care such as sutures given if you fell over and split your knee open.

Only had to deal with that once, well Mr Sola did. The daft sod got his feet SERIOUSLY sunburned when we were on holiday on Greece. The silly sod forgot to put suncream on his feet - he stopped at his ankles! His feet were in a terrible mess with huge fluid filled blisters and the next day his feet were really swollen. He found via the hotel staff a GP clinic and the doctor gave him some dressings and cream and the nurse dressed his feet. We didn't bother with the insurance as we'd have had to pay something like the first £100 of treatment. So we used our E111 cards (reciprocal treatment in the EU), paid the bill which was around 15 euros and then claimed it back once we got home.

[treemom]

Wow, I have never had travel insurance where I would have had to pay upfront. Never had to claim on it thankfully, but if I had you phone the insurance people and they deal direct with the hospital. I think the only thing you would have to pay upfront for is for minor injury care such as sutures given if you fell over and split your knee open.

Only had to deal with that once, well Mr Sola did. The daft sod got his feet SERIOUSLY sunburned when we were on holiday on Greece. The silly sod forgot to put suncream on his feet - he stopped at his ankles! His feet were in a terrible mess with huge fluid filled blisters and the next day his feet were really swollen. He found via the hotel staff a GP clinic and the doctor gave him some dressings and cream and the nurse dressed his feet. We didn't bother with the insurance as we'd have had to pay something like the first £100 of treatment. So we used our E111 cards (reciprocal treatment in the EU), paid the bill which was around 15 euros and then claimed it back once we got home.

EU laws about insurance are quite different than here. Some policies will advance you money upfront. Some will work with the hospital so that you are billed. Some do nothing and a few will be billed by the hospital.

Also, the EU is a bit more cohesive than the US. It is easier to collect on transnational debt there for instance. Heck, I have nationwide insurance (my husband works for a very large company that has employees in every single state) and had a well known dental insurance and when I tripped and broke my two front teeth in 2007 and needed an ER root canacl in Florida (where big company has big offices) I had to pay upfront because I was from out of state and it is hard to collect from out of state people.

And yes, I am clumsy. I often hurt myself on trips.

ETA: It is very, very, very important to read the very fine print on travel insurance.

ETA 2: No idea why i used the word insular as it made no sense. Cohesive isn't exactly the word I want either,.

[Sola]

Your healthcare system is even more messed up than I thought!

[treemom]

Your healthcare system is even more messed up than I thought!

Ha! Did you know that when you see your dr here you usually sign a release saying that you are financially responsible for all treatment.

It sucks because insurance companies are pricks here. The doctor and hospitals etc have a whole group of people to make sure people get billed right, use the right lab, etc in order to get the insurance to pay. Just because our Dr orders a test, medication, whatever doesn't mean our insurance will cover it. Or cover it fully.