Turned down for a C section & baby dies

[Chowder Head]

We take about a lot of women that want to do natural birth and not c sections but this woman asked for one, needed one but the doctor used forceps and crushed the babies brain. personally I do not know why forceps are even still used in this day in age. The baby was just taken off life support.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ivery.html

http://www.gofundme.com/TheOliviaLaw

[Chowder Head]

"Forceps were first developed in the 16th Century by the Chamberlen family, Huguenot surgeons who fled to London from France, and kept their invention under wraps.....the forceps in use today haven't changed much since the late 1800s - the more complicated they become, the harder they are to use and the more expensive to sterilize."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25137800

[debrand]

"Forceps were first developed in the 16th Century by the Chamberlen family, Huguenot surgeons who fled to London from France, and kept their invention under wraps.....the forceps in use today haven't changed much since the late 1800s - the more complicated they become, the harder they are to use and the more expensive to sterilize."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25137800

Ms Melancon, at 4ft 11in and weighing 95lb before she became pregnant, had asked for a cesarean section when her baby was overdue and large, considering her mother's petite frame.

When I became pregnant with our first child, I was 95 lbs and 5 foot tall. The doctor told me that I probably couldn't have a very large baby vaginally. All my babies were small so there was no problem but I wonder why the doctors didn't have the same concerns for this woman's petite size?

[Kailash]

How tragic. If everything the mother claims is true, I hope that Dr. is forced to quit practising medicine.

[lascuba]

How awful.

I'd like to know what the hospital's policy is, because hospitals across the country have been under increasing pressure to lower their induction and c-section rates. Doctors are given hell by their hospitals if they're rates go above a certain level.

[Vex]

What a nightmare. I know that elective c-sections are sometimes a bit unreasonable (like wanting them because you want the baby born on a certain date for no good reason) but this wasn't an unreasonable request, especially since she had tried to deliver vaginally and was exhausted before the baby even entered the birth canal. I have always thought forceps seemed quite barbaric even though babies have soft skulls designed to survive the pressure of squeezing through the birth canal.

If he had to use such force his foot was up on the bed there's no question he shouldn't have continued. He should lose his license.

[August]

When they used a vacuum on my baby I was counselled and had to consent. My birth plan for both births said no forceps. What did her birth plan say? What did she say when they warned her about the risks of forceps? This is a disaster, but you can't decide to sue because you made the wrong decision.

This is interesting

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/2 ... #aw2aab6b9

If the fetal head is heavily molded, the cranial bones overlap, and the presenting part remains high, disproportion is likely. Thus, no attempt at an instrumental delivery is appropriate,and cesarean delivery is the best management.

The baby's head was extremely molded.

[Coconut Flan]

When I became pregnant with our first child, I was 95 lbs and 5 foot tall. The doctor told me that I probably couldn't have a very large baby vaginally. All my babies were small so there was no problem but I wonder why the doctors didn't have the same concerns for this woman's petite size?

I was in a similar situation. In fact I had to fight to have a trial of labor with the first. I thought all use of forceps required maternal consent and it sounds like it was foolish to even try forceps. If the mother was that small and the baby was not turned properly and it sounds like possibly was not proceeding downward as expected, then they had three reasons to do the C-section. This presumed jerk sounds like a doctor that was removed from the hospital where I delivered our first. It took three babies dying before that idiot lost his license.

[Chowder Head]

My thoughts keep coming back to the pressure to crush the babies brain and snap the spinal cord. WTH

[bookiewookie]

That poor family. What a tragic, horrifying thing to happen. I hope that they're successful in getting the no-forceps law passed or, at the very least, getting hospitals to review their delivery protocols.

[Jana814]

I agree what a tragic story.

[linnea27]

When they used a vacuum on my baby I was counselled and had to consent. My birth plan for both births said no forceps. What did her birth plan say? What did she say when they warned her about the risks of forceps? This is a disaster, but you can't decide to sue because you made the wrong decision

If he really had his foot braced against the bed to exert that much force on the baby, he was negligent no matter what she agreed to. Also, not everyone has a written birth plan, and lack of a birth plan does not mean that the doctor has a free for all in treating her without recourse.

As far as her consent, we don't know what was said or what state of mind she was in. I know when my baby became stuck in the pushing phase and I pushed for three hours without meds, I was not in a state that I could logically weigh out the pros and cons of medical choices. When they recommended a c-section I jumped on the opportunity (and with no regrets) but I certainly wasn't asking questions about risks. I was barely capable of speech. If a woman in that position agrees to her doctor's recommendations I don't think she should be faulted for consenting. I am all for doing your own research, but at the end of the day, doctors are supposed to know more than patients and patients are generally supposed to follow medical advice. That's why we have doctors. If the average labouring woman really knew the best course of treatment in any given situation, well then, we might as well just start encouraging women to have unattended homebirths.

[scc12]

o my that's scary! my daughter was delivered by forceps in 1990.I had no idea at the time that they could cause such problems,or I would have asked for a vacuum extraction at the least.it seems a lot safer.

[Genk]

I agree that this was an awful situation and that it sounds like this dr made some horrible decisions, however I don't think that should mean that forceps should be banned. When used properly, they can save a woman from a cesarean which is a much harder recovery.

In my mind, suggesting that they should be banned based on this case is like saying adenoid removals should be banned based on the girl who became brain dead after her surgery.

[lascuba]

I agree that this was an awful situation and that it sounds like this dr made some horrible decisions, however I don't think that should mean that forceps should be banned. When used properly, they can save a woman from a cesarean which is a much harder recovery.

In my mind, suggesting that they should be banned based on this case is like saying adenoid removals should be banned based on the girl who became brain dead after her surgery.

Recovery from a third or fourth degree tear (that's tearing from vagina to anal sphincter or rectum) is in no way easier than a c-section. Not to mention that forceps are much riskier for babies.

I'm against banning all forceps use, but they should only be used when the baby's head is right there. Mid or high level forceps should never be used.

[Savoring Samsara]

I agree that this was an awful situation and that it sounds like this dr made some horrible decisions, however I don't think that should mean that forceps should be banned. When used properly, they can save a woman from a cesarean which is a much harder recovery.

In my mind, suggesting that they should be banned based on this case is like saying adenoid removals should be banned based on the girl who became brain dead after her surgery.

I'm under the impression that forceps deliveries are dying out anyhow. In the birth class I took a few years back, the educator said that most doctors use the vacuum extraction now and aren't typically even trained with forceps. She claimed it's mostly just older doctors who use them now, but not being a doctor I could of course be wrong about that.

[PennySycamore]

I had a forceps delivery in 1987 because my doctor noticed that my baby's vital signs were tanking. The doc needed to get Katherine out of the birth canal right then or else she would have died. Her APGAR scores were 0 and 2. In her case, it helped make the difference between dying there in the delivery room and 11 months later. I wouldn't have missed those 11 months for anything.

Vacuum deliveries aren't without risks either. For one thing, they can really mess up a baby's suck so much so that the infant can barely take a bottle much less nurse.

[August]

If he really had his foot braced against the bed to exert that much force on the baby, he was negligent no matter what she agreed to. Also, not everyone has a written birth plan, and lack of a birth plan does not mean that the doctor has a free for all in treating her without recourse.

As far as her consent, we don't know what was said or what state of mind she was in. I know when my baby became stuck in the pushing phase and I pushed for three hours without meds, I was not in a state that I could logically weigh out the pros and cons of medical choices. When they recommended a c-section I jumped on the opportunity (and with no regrets) but I certainly wasn't asking questions about risks. I was barely capable of speech. If a woman in that position agrees to her doctor's recommendations I don't think she should be faulted for consenting. I am all for doing your own research, but at the end of the day, doctors are supposed to know more than patients and patients are generally supposed to follow medical advice. That's why we have doctors. If the average labouring woman really knew the best course of treatment in any given situation, well then, we might as well just start encouraging women to have unattended homebirths.

Not everyone has a birth plan, but everyone should have one. If she was so heavily in favor of a c-section over forceps before labor, why didn't she make that clear?

Genk, the reason forceps have fallen out of favor is that c-section is a much easier recovery. You're almost certain to have a third or fourth degree tear with forceps.

[Mama Mia]

Not everyone has a birth plan, but everyone should have one. If she was so heavily in favor of a c-section over forceps before labor, why didn't she make that clear?

Genk, the reason forceps have fallen out of favor is that c-section is a much easier recovery. You're almost certain to have a third or fourth degree tear with forceps.

Had a delivery with a fourth degree tear. Had c-sections. I'd take the 4 th degree tear any day over the c-section recovery.

[RainbowSky]

This makes me sick and so, so sad.

With my almost nine year old, the Dr said she was going to use a vacuum (it wasn't even a hard labor or birth, she needed kicked. :pull-hair: ). And when I freaked the hell out, she said fine, she would use forceps. I completely freaked out again and she backed off but still. And no counseling, no asking, no "these things could happen!" just being a complete bitch.

[scc12]

I've never had a C-section so I can't vouch for that.I did have a forceps delivery with a 3rd degree laceration though.Recovery wasn't too awful bad.I did take the stool softeners they gave me so that def. helped! I think I still recall screaming the first time I went though!

When I had my second baby,it tore in the same spot,but not quite as bad.Recovery was easier that time.I did get hemmoroids from that birth though,something that didn't happen with the forceps delivery.

Thx to who posted that,I had thought vacuum deliveries were safer.

My dr was older,but he did an exam on me in the delivery room to see if the baby's head was down far enough for a forceps delivery.He said if it wasn't,I was going to have a C-section.I'm thankful that it was,and that all went well.You would have never known she was delivered that way.Her head was perfect,and there was only a slight mark on the side of her cheek.Otherwise,she was perfect.Everyone who came to see me thought she looked more like a 2-3 mo. old than a newborn.Her color was so good and she was so alert.

[Eater of Worlds]

This also happened fairly recently in the UK. Forceps were used incorrectly, the doctor didn't have any experience using forceps but for some godawful reason decided to. The same result, the baby's spinal cord was broken (though I can't remember if she had skull fractures).

The reason that forceps and vacuums are not used much today is that in nearly all situations, a c-section is safer for the baby. It's a rare situation these days for them to use tools to get a child out vaginally.

[themarquis]

When they used a vacuum on my baby I was counselled and had to consent. My birth plan for both births said no forceps. What did her birth plan say? What did she say when they warned her about the risks of forceps? This is a disaster, but you can't decide to sue because you made the wrong decision.

This is interesting

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/2 ... #aw2aab6b9

The baby's head was extremely molded.

So you are saying that it was this woman's fault that her baby died because she either didn't have a birth plan or her birth plan didn't address instrumental delivery and that she consented to a procedure that involved risks. So oops, too bad, so sad -- you've got a dead baby now because you "made the wrong decision"?

[Conuly]

I remember reading an article about the rise of c-sections, and from what I recall it said that even today complications and recovery time with forceps tend to be lower BUT that complications with forceps, when they occur, are much more likely to be devastating and that, of course, it is much harder to teach doctors to use forceps than to teach other methods, such as, of course, c-sections.

But I don't know how accurate that is.

[lascuba]

I remember reading an article about the rise of c-sections, and from what I recall it said that even today complications and recovery time with forceps tend to be lower BUT that complications with forceps, when they occur, are much more likely to be devastating and that, of course, it is much harder to teach doctors to use forceps than to teach other methods, such as, of course, c-sections.

But I don't know how accurate that is.

Pretty accurate. There's almost an art to forceps use that's hard to teach. C-section are easy surgeries.

I wonder about long term damage from forceps use. Anecdotally, I've heard from many uro-gyns that they perform much more prolapse repairs on women who've had vaginal births versus those that have had c-sections. I wonder if forceps cause even more damage to the pelvic floor.