"Adult children need boundaries from parents"

[Marian the Librarian]

Just came across this article while surfing the news. It speaks well to the dysfunctional family situations often discussed here. Long, but worth the read...

Adult children need boundaries from parents

Psychologists refer to cases of emotional control as "emotional incest."

By Judi Light Hopson, Emma H. Hopson and Ted Hagen

McClatchy-Tribune News Service

Do you have adult friends who are controlled by their parents? Do they still live at home and take orders from mom or dad?

We know people in their sixties in this situation. Their parents treat them as significant others instead of free agents.

Psychologists refer to this type of emotional control as "emotional incest."

"My mother treats me as if I'm her husband," says a 40-year-old dentist we'll call Phil. "She keeps track of my life moment by moment."

In these types of relationships, a mother may lack a husband. So, she mentally transforms her son into her life partner.

There are fathers who try to control their adult daughters, too. And, mothers may also try to control their daughters — not just their sons.

These relationships involve a parent trying to sabotage independence from the time a child is very young.

"We all know males called "Mama's boys," says a psychologist we'll call Alice. "The problem really intensifies if the son wants to date or get married. Mama is angry that another woman is in the picture."

Alice is working with a man in therapy who is trying to break the chains. This adult son is in a fight for his life, Alice explains.

"This patient is someone I'll call Daniel," says Alice. "Daniel still lives in his childhood bedroom, although he's 48. His mother makes all of the rules and calls all of the shots."

So how did Daniel remain tied to his mother's apron strings? Alice says a parent invading an adult child's life gives a clear message: "Do what I say, or I will not love you."

A parent holding on too tightly does the following:

— She refuses to give her stamp of approval. The mother makes the child feel inadequate to live independently.

— She fails to form a strong bond with another male. If she's married, she continually points out her husband's weaknesses.

A parent practicing these behaviors is terrified of abandonment. By holding onto the child, this is the parent's best insurance of always having someone to cling to.

An adult who's never been encouraged to make decisions can grow weaker and more fearful as time goes on. So, he or she stays close to mom or dad. "I was 50 when my controlling mother died," says a woman we'll call Rhonda. "I became so fearful I could not leave the house for a year."

While her mother was healthy, she did Rhonda's laundry, figured her daughter's checkbook, and told the waiter what Rhonda wanted to order in a restaurant.

"Mother literally held me hostage," says Rhonda.

To break this kind of bondage, an adult child must do the following:

— Talk about the need to separate. It helps to tell a parent the truth about living separate lives.

— Do keep secrets from the parent. Don't reveal your checking account balances or allow parents to know too much about you.

— Take on full financial responsibility. Money issues will often wreck the freedom of an adult child in this type of situation.

If you need to break free, it's important to expect tension. The parent will definitely act out anger. There will be an emotional roller coaster, especially in the beginning.

Explain to your mother or father that you understand the fear of abandonment from his or her perspective. But, take steps to slowly turn the tide. "Your parent will not likely outlive you," says Rhonda. "Gaining independence now will save you from extreme fear later on."

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks for posting this.

[Brainsample]

Why I started this blog: http://botkinsyndrome.blogspot.com/p/en ... drome.html

[marmalade]

A great book for anyone who needs to get away from a difficult parent for their own sanity should read "Coping with Your Difficult Older Parent." It offers much of the advice outlined above and more importantly, HOW to implement it.

Granted, even if Josh Duggar broke away from the cult in two years, his parents wouldn't even be 50 yet, hardly, "older," but the control they exert over him has many similarities to a parent in their golden years (I refulse to call them "elderly"). ;)

Of course, with most of these fundies, there will always be a old maid daughter who is "called" to take care of her parents in their dotage and if they have no daughters, will likely move in with the oldest son. American culture, as it is, exempts most adult children of the full care of their parents, but now that things are so fucked up, the generation caught in the middle right now - mine - is going through hell trying to raise a family while also taking care of the needs of parents that may be ailing or, as in the case of my MIL, pigeonholed into the gender role of housewife, having absolutely no idea how to handle the finances.

Combine that with the fact that even though she is very active in her community (and being one of the younger residents, often a leader), if she doesn't see her son, she calls him EVERY FUCKING DAY to say absolutely nothing we haven't heard a thousand times before.

The book was a great help to us and my SIL; she lives 3000 miles away but handles the investment portfolio, so she too gets the panicked phone calls regarding minutae that must be resolved THIS VERY SECOND.

Can't wait until Smuggar is forced into this role if, by some miracle, the last J'Slave marries late in life and has to take care of her own young family.

[Lainey]

This sounds like the relationship between my mom and my brother, and it makes me sad. :cry: My brother has no life, because my mother won't let go of him. And she's brainwashed him that pretty much all of his other relatives are evil, and that buying a home and settling down is wrong (they both "live" in homeless shelters even though he's working in the summer). And when girls used to call for him, she'd tell them he wasn't there and not to call back. I love my mom because she's my mom, and she does have some good qualities, but I hate her for what she's done to my brother. He's 37, almost 38.

ETA: MariantheLibrarian, do you have a link? I'd like to send this article to my brother.

[Marian the Librarian]

This sounds like the relationship between my mom and my brother, and it makes me sad. :cry: My brother has no life, because my mother won't let go of him. And she's brainwashed him that pretty much all of his other relatives are evil, and that buying a home and settling down is wrong (they both "live" in homeless shelters even though he's working in the summer). And when girls used to call for him, she'd tell them he wasn't there and not to call back. I love my mom because she's my mom, and she does have some good qualities, but I hate her for what she's done to my brother. He's 37, almost 38.

ETA: MariantheLibrarian, do you have a link? I'd like to send this article to my brother.

Absolutely! I hope it helps...

http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Adult+ ... story.html

[Lainey]

Thank you! I sent it to him. I hope it helps, too, but I doubt it will. :(

[Chrystal-J]

I knew a guy once who was dominated by both of his parents. One time he wanted to buy a bike and I over-heard his dad say "What'd need a bike for?! No!" And this guy worked 24/7 for the family company and rarely asked for anything. He still lived with his parents in his 40's and they totally ran his life. He would date, but his parents were always in his business and most women couldn't handle it.

My priest said some woman kept telling him she couldn't do this or that because her mother wouldn't approve--and she was 60.

[fundyfunland]

I knew a guy once who was dominated by both of his parents. One time he wanted to buy a bike and I over-heard his dad say "What'd need a bike for?! No!" And this guy worked 24/7 for the family company and rarely asked for anything. He still lived with his parents in his 40's and they totally ran his life. He would date, but his parents were always in his business and most women couldn't handle it.

My priest said some woman kept telling him she couldn't do this or that because her mother wouldn't approve--and she was 60.

Oh what a coincidence!!! You've met my ex-boyfriend! :angry-screaming:

[annalena]

Yeah, right. Adults need boundaries.

What these people don't realize is that the fact you are the parent does not automatically make you smarter/wiser than your "children", particulary when it comes to decisions in THEIR lives.

Both of my parents are extremely controlling and emotionally blackmailing ( I dont even think consciously), I am still trying to break free and I'm 27. Since I don't let their judgments get to me anymore, I live much happier life with a lot more inner freedom.

I know they consider me a "looser", kind of, since my life decisions were not what they would have decided in my place (I'm talking about not really major decisions like staying abroad for a while, etc.) But so what? It's MY life. They just think they would be able to make better decisions because they consider themselves smarter/more experienced/whatever.

[Kitty]

When the children are actually children, we call these sorts of parents 'helicopter parents.'

They're a HUGE problem in colleges, where they harass professors and generally run their kids' lives, despite the fact that said kid now lives away from them. They cause huge headaches for colleges, which are for, well, adults, even if those adults are 18 and have never been on their own before.

My mother is a bit more clingy than most, but she's nowhere to the level of fundie parents. I don't tell her ZOMG ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING, she doesn't expect me to live at home, and she has NEVER interfered with me dating, even when I was younger. I'm young but I can see a LOT of people I know having to put up with their parents' bullshit well into adulthood.

BTW, helicopter parenting and "emotional incest"? It's emotional abuse, plain and simple.

[latraviata]

When the children are actually children, we call these sorts of parents 'helicopter parents.'

They're a HUGE problem in colleges, where they harass professors and generally run their kids' lives, despite the fact that said kid now lives away from them. They cause huge headaches for colleges, which are for, well, adults, even if those adults are 18 and have never been on their own before.

My mother is a bit more clingy than most, but she's nowhere to the level of fundie parents. I don't tell her ZOMG ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING, she doesn't expect me to live at home, and she has NEVER interfered with me dating, even when I was younger. I'm young but I can see a LOT of people I know having to put up with their parents' bullshit well into adulthood.

BTW, helicopter parenting and "emotional incest"? It's emotional abuse, plain and simple.

Well, incest is abuse.

[VodouDoll]

Since I don't let their judgments get to me anymore, I live much happier life with a lot more inner freedom.

It's MY life. They just think they would be able to make better decisions because they consider themselves smarter/more experienced/whatever.

My parents are similar to this. They get offended and judgmental if I made different decisions from what they did when they were my age, or if I handle things differently from how they would in my shoes. It's like...they feel like by making different choices from what they would do in my shoes, I'm judging them and saying their choices aren't good. I've never been the type to just go along with this nonsense to get along, which caused a lot of friction when I was a teen. But now that I'm older and wiser (a whole 31 years old!) I've taken to shrugging and saying cheerfully, like it's no big deal, "Different people, different ways." They still haven't totally wrapped their minds around this concept - that there are many ways to do things and what's right for them isn't automatically right for everyone - but they're getting there. And it helps too that I live 800 miles away, so they're not really involved in my daily life. I talk to them on the phone maybe twice a month and see them three or four times a year, which is just the right amount for me.

[ElphabaGalinda]

What disturbs even more is that it says these parents treat their children as a spouse. Ummmm....controlling their every move, keeping track of every minute of their lives ordering them around, having the final say in everything? Just like that's unhealthy for a parent to do, it's unhealthy to do in a marriage. I would hope they're expected to treat their significant other as a "free agent". My mom tries to do that with me, but i refuse to accept it, so we fight constantly . Even though my grandmother lives 6 hours away, when she comes to visit she's extremely controlling to my mom, and my mom just lets it happen. Once I said to my grandmother: "My mom is an adult and this is her house, so you can't tell her what to do anymore." Sometimes the only way to gain your independance is to fight for it.

[Kitty]

What disturbs even more is that it says these parents treat their children as a spouse. Ummmm....controlling their every move, keeping track of every minute of their lives ordering them around, having the final say in everything? Just like that's unhealthy for a parent to do, it's unhealthy to do in a marriage. I would hope they're expected to treat their significant other as a "free agent". My mom tries to do that with me, but i refuse to accept it, so we fight constantly . Even though my grandmother lives 6 hours away, when she comes to visit she's extremely controlling to my mom, and my mom just lets it happen. Once I said to my grandmother: "My mom is an adult and this is her house, so you can't tell her what to do anymore." Sometimes the only way to gain your independance is to fight for it.

Yeah, those are things that should NEVER be done in any relationship. That's not "emotional incest." the article only offers up some long-dead Freudian bullshit to describe the already known phenomenon of helicopter parenting. Apparently it's only called helicopter parenting when the kid is college-age or younger.

[Hane]

All this reminds me of a quotation from the singer Jilline Ringle, a hot redhead still single in her '40s: "I'm waiting for a guy whose parents are DEAD."

[fundiefan]

My first long term boyfriend as an adult, from 22-25, was a mama's boy. He was 33 and still lived at home. He'd never had a serious girlfriend before (red flag I should have recognized but was too stupid to do so). I'd call him, his mom would answer the phone and determine whether he could speak to me or not. This was before cell phones so it was a house phone and a crap shoot as to who I'd get when calling. Somehow we managed to live in sin, in an apartment, but that was the beginning of the end. Instead of moving forward with the relationship, it went backwards on so many levels. He'd call his mom when I made something for dinner to see if I made it 'right'. She'd call him to remind him that his bills were due - - because, apparently, he didn't know that rent was to be paid the 1st of the month and utilities by the due date on the statement, and apparently I couldn't keep track of bills any more than I could cook.

What it came down to was the exact example in the article. His mom was very angry and very jealous. How dare he find a woman to share his life with when he already had her!

We lived together 9 months and the relationship exploded. It really was worse once he was away from her than when he was in the house.

He went back to mommy and I moved on.

[browngrl]

Why I started this blog: http://botkinsyndrome.blogspot.com/p/en ... drome.html

I just read though part of your blog - very interesting. I find the term "covert incest" to be interesting. It captures what I have long felt about so many fundie families nicely.

[Kitty]

Well, incest is abuse.

Incest CAN be consenual, as gross as that is. It's not always abuse. From the article all I got was Freudian jibberjabber. It's got nothing to do with actual incest (okay, maybe in some cases), it's control and emotional abuse. Abusers make their victims depend on them and fear being out on their own and away from them. If parents can do this to underage children without it being incest, what makes it incest when they do it to their grown child?

[Wolfie]

Incest CAN be consenual, as gross as that is. It's not always abuse. From the article all I got was Freudian jibberjabber. It's got nothing to do with actual incest (okay, maybe in some cases), it's control and emotional abuse. Abusers make their victims depend on them and fear being out on their own and away from them. If parents can do this to underage children without it being incest, what makes it incest when they do it to their grown child?

I would be just as shocked if a parent was being this controlling over a teenager. It's not okay. As a child matures a parent needs to gradually let go and let their child start becoming independent and an adult. This can be abuse to an underage child, because they won't learn how to live independently. (which is why the article mentions the shock and fear when a parent dies, and the child is suddenly 100% on their own, instead of the gradual process that is normal)

[Noon]

Actually, given the gross differences in power that accompany it, incest can NOT ever be truly consensual. It is always abuse.

In any event, what they're referring to in the article is 'emotional incest,' not physical incest. That means that they may not be physically treating the child like a romantic partner, but they are tying their emotional lives together above and beyond what's appropriate for a parent/child bond. It's just terminology used to help describe a form of a abuse, no need to get hung up on it.

[Kitty]

I would be just as shocked if a parent was being this controlling over a teenager. It's not okay. As a child matures a parent needs to gradually let go and let their child start becoming independent and an adult. This can be abuse to an underage child, because they won't learn how to live independently. (which is why the article mentions the shock and fear when a parent dies, and the child is suddenly 100% on their own, instead of the gradual process that is normal)

But I'm still confused as to how it's any sort of incest. Abuse, yes, but not incest. the article fails to explain where the term "emotional incest" comes from, instead mentioning some Freudian crap about mothers possibly not having a husband around. they do not mention fathers not having wives around, and offer no reason as to why mothers control both sons and daughters, but fathers only control daughters. "Psychologists call it emotional incest" erm, what? Which psychologists? And why would they call it that?

And of course they fear abandonment. It's not surprising that a fear of abandonment would manifest itself in emotional abuse. The article comes within a breath of sympathizing with emotionally abusive parents, going on and on about their 'fear of abandonment.' In reality it's no different from what abusive parents of underage children do, in particular helicopter parents. Nobody sympathizes with those parents and just sigh and say "Oh, it's a fear of abandonment." No it fucking isn't. It is an abuser seeking out a victim, slowly sabotaging that victim's independence early on, and getting freaked out that their victim may say "fuck you" and leave, because it means that they have nobody to dominate.

Another flaw in this article is that it states that emotionally "incestuous" parents treat their children like significant others. Um, what? What the hell is the writers' idea of a romantic relationship? It fails to explain how this treatment is in any way incestuous.

Given how poorly this article is written, I have to wonder a) about the psychologists' credentials and b) how the fuck these writers managed to get this published.

[Beeks]

Thank you for this article. I think emotional incest is a true form of abuse that can start in childhood. My MIL inflicted this on my husband (treating him like a husband) from a very young age.

[Kitty]

Actually, given the gross differences in power that accompany it, incest can NOT ever be truly consensual. It is always abuse.

In any event, what they're referring to in the article is 'emotional incest,' not physical incest. That means that they may not be physically treating the child like a romantic partner, but they are tying their emotional lives together above and beyond what's appropriate for a parent/child bond. It's just terminology used to help describe a form of a abuse, no need to get hung up on it.

All abusers tie the personal lives of themselves and their victims together above and beyond what's appropriate for ANY relationship, familial, romantic, or otherwise. I'm still confused as to why this is incest. It's NOT romantic, and the child is NOT being treated in ANY WAY like a significant other. The child is being closely monitored and controlled. This happens in abusive relationships between parents and underage children. there is absolutely no difference whatsoever.

[Beeks]

All abusers tie the personal lives of themselves and their victims together above and beyond what's appropriate for ANY relationship, familial, romantic, or otherwise. I'm still confused as to why this is incest. It's NOT romantic, and the child is NOT being treated in ANY WAY like a significant other. The child is being closely monitored and controlled. This happens in abusive relationships between parents and underage children. there is absolutely no difference whatsoever.

Well, in my husband's case, it definitely crossed lines both ways. His mother is/was inappropriately affectionate (trying to hug him when he'd step out of the shower in just a towel when he was a teenager and an adult, hanging all over him in the way you would a boyfriend [think of Meredith hanging all over Stephen], etc). She also emotionally treated him like a romantic partner - sharing way too much, etc etc. I think "emotional incest" can be a very appropriate term for these types of situations.