Kathryn Joyce - The Homeschool Apostates - Merge

[paganhomeschooler]

I did a quick search and didn't see this, but I'm working so I couldn't do an in-depth search. Sorry if it's already been discussed! Saw this posted on the Gifted Homeschooling group I belong to on FB. It talks about Hana Alemu and TTUaC. It's an article about kids being raised by fundie homeschoolers. I did my part to try to open the eyes of some of the naysayers on the FB page! I mentioned the Duggars and their link to TTUaC, the fall of Doug Phillips who is a tool, and the Cult of GotHard.

prospect.org/article/homeschool-apostates

[ladidah]

It's a good piece. It cogently summarizes many of the problems with some of the religious wings of the homeschool movement, and it profiles people who deserve a wider audience (Ettinger, Coleman, Stollar, etc.).

That said, it drives me CRAZY that Joyce lets Elizabeth Esther serve as if she were a mouthpiece for many of these homeschoolers. Elizabeth Esther grew up in a cult that sent children to public school and wasn't homeschooled herself. She's talked about issues that have affected homeschoolers (like the Pearls' teachings), but that doesn't make her autobiographical reflections suitable for this particular article. Joyce doesn't specifically say Elizabeth Esther was homeschooled—so she'll get no hand-slaps or corrections from her editor—but her use of the quotations is misleading and bizarre in this context.

I know Joyce is popular with a lot of FJers, but this kind of sloppiness in her work needlessly opens it up to criticisms from movement defenders (and, you know, regular people who care about precision) and detracts from the value of her larger contributions.

[paganhomeschooler]

I wasn't familiar with her work before.

I did think it was a good summary of what these whacko fundies are all about, though.

And the whacko fundy on the FB page this was posted on didn't like me saying they turn kids into robots and girls into brood mares. :twisted: She went to the official fundy stance of "prejudice and hate speech!!1!!!11!!" and called out to the mods on me. I haven't been banned....yet. FTR, I was impressed with the amount of people who agreed.

ETA: Who agreed fundies are whacko, not that they agreed WITH the fundy whacko.

[stonefruit]

Chris Jeub has responded:

chrisjeub.com/those-homeschool-apostates/

[paganhomeschooler]

I just skimmed his article (working right now), but from what I made out of it, I think that's the most non-douchey thing I've ever seen him write! lol He did touch on topics that the more sane people in the FB group were raising. How do we show we're not all child abusing SOTDRT teachers while not losing the right to homeschool, but still protecting the children who can't protect themselves. I'm actually pretty surprised he wrote something like that. I'll admit I don't follow the Jeubs closely, but I remember their Kids by the Dozen episode.

FWIW, I got the last word on whacko fundy. Other people also jumped on her because she said so what if kids get abused and killed; 4 kids are abused and killed every day by their family. She asked what percentage of those, did I think, were Christian. So, I brought up the Gallup poll that said 77% of Americans identified as Christians, so it wouldn't be unrealistic to assume 3/4 of those kids were killed by people who considered themselves Christians. That shut her up!

[Lillybee]

An interesting article about leaving fundamentalism by Katherine Joyce.

http://www.alternet.org/belief/escape-c ... page=0%2C0

[Rita]

Never heard of this magazine before, The American Prospect, but they have a piece from Kathryn Joyce.

"Kathryn Joyce is the author of The Child Catchers: Rescue, Trafficking and the New Gospel of Adoption and Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy" (so says the site's blurb).

So far, it's about a woman who got out of fundieland and has gone back for her sister, but I'm not very far in. I don't know how my non-religious, non-homeschooling facebook friend ran across it...

The Homeschool Apostates

Edited to add:

It's got the personal story to suck you in, then gives an overview of, basically fundamentalism's intersection with homeschooling, and the homeschool resistance people.

[gustava]

The American Prospect is a liberal magazine.

[gustava]

Mods...lilybee posted same article but from different source under thread about home schooling.

[Rita]

Mods...lilybee posted same article but from different source under thread about home schooling.

Sorry, I searched for Kathryn Joyce and didn't see it. My bad.

[apple1]

It's a good article, but what is with Joyce's repeated "advertising" of N o L o n g e r Q u i v e r i n g ? It makes Joyce sound as if she has lost journalistic objectivity, and as if she is being paid by the above-mentioned site.

[FloraDoraDolly]

Did anyone read Chris Jeub's response? Sorry, I don't have the link. I found it on Twitter.

[Ariel]

I Just read this article and was coming here to post about it!

I think it's a really great overview of the relationship between homeschooling and fundamentalism. This article would be a perfect beginners guide to the fundie movement.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Great article, thanks!

[Lillybee]

Katherine Joyce rocks, she is shining the light on the darkness of Fundie crazy.

[Jana814]

Great article! I felt soo bad for the girl in the beginning, I hope she is going to be OK.

[realist51]

Swanson told his listeners, “but I will say that some of the speech/debate can encourage sort of this proud, arrogant approach and an autonomous approach to philosophy—that truth is relative.â€

This line jumped out at me because I remember Jana Duggar saying that she had learned at her JTTH sessions that she was proud, and that was why she was having problems. I hope that poor girl can find help when she is ready to go.

[thekate]

It's a good article, but what is with Joyce's repeated "advertising" of N o L o n g e r Q u i v e r i n g ? It makes Joyce sound as if she has lost journalistic objectivity, and as if she is being paid by the above-mentioned site.

She mentions it in one section that I feel was appropriate-ish because one of her subjects mentioned it as a website she read when leaving fundamentalism. Like it or not, it's a major "resource" for people simply by virtue of high Google ranking.

I feel it's equivalent to a recent PhD mining their dissertation for article after article. Why do more research when you already have something?

I understand fundamentalism is her "thing," but I wish she would branch out more because all her articles seem repetitive. Move on!

I also wondered about "Ruthslist," which is trying to organize a list of safe houses and a guide for Quiverfull daughters to leave. How did it get that name?

[Ralar]

When he addresses incoming students at Patrick Henry, Michael Farris likes to dream aloud of the day when the president of the United States and the Oscar winner for best picture are homeschooling graduates who roomed together at the college.

I think he was referring to Al Gore and Tommy Lee Jones: college roommates who went on to become Vice-President of the United States and an Oscar winner. Only they went to Harvard, not Patrick Henry.

[Coconut Flan]

Ruthslist set off my hinky meter also.

[stonefruit]

This is now the third thread about this article - two of them are about the American Prospect version, and one is about the reprint on Alternet. Can they please be merged?

[curlytoes79]

I was really concerned about Jennifer's dog, actually. I'll bet you anything her parents hurt and/or killed that dog (or at least said they would) in a bid to try to force Jennifer back. I'm not sure I could have left a pet behind.

[mrs]

Curlytoes, I thought the same thing. :(

Kathryn's book about the quiverfull movement really opened my eyes. I hope to read her book about adoption soon.

(Can the mods merge this thread and the "Kathryn Joyce's PA's homeschooling article" viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20341 ?)

Edited to fix spelling.

[sableduck]

I actually agree with Chris Jeub's article. Guess there is a first time for everything.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I ended up reading several stories of abuse from that site and others last night, one of which I can't get out of my mind. As I'd beating isn't bad enough, it's the demands that they not cry, not show emotion, that they completely break. It's tragic.