Found a horrifying 'parenting/discipline' card

[JaChelle Sugar]

You know how sometimes you find junk in secondhand handbags? I found a little paper list that could of been printed out or cut out of a shitty parenting book about how to deal with your kid's.

One side says:

Traps To Avoid

Never argue with your child

Never try to persuade your child to obey

never physically force your child to obey

never repeat a command that you know has been heard until after you spank your child for disobeying the first command

never bribe your child into obedience

don't warn a child that a spanking is imminent

don't count as a motivation for your child to obey

don't just always remove all a child's temptations so that he won't do something he is not supposed to do

don't fall into the trap of spanking only when you have shouted angrily at your child and he has still disobeyed

don't allow yourself to be manipulated by your child

don't put up with stalling

don't be afraid to say 'no!'

don't make rules or commands that you are not willing to enforce

don't fail to administer pain

don't fail to teach them

don't fail to pray with them

don't look for excuses not to spank, eg:

-maybe he doesn't understand

-he didn't do any harm

-it was an udnerstandable sin

-I'm just as bad

-I'm too exhausted

-he's already had too many spankings today

-he's not feeling well

-I'm in a hurry

-I can't spank him here!

The other side says:

Spank For:

disobedience---don't set up a rule or make a threat that you don't want to follow thru on

delayed obedience

incomplete obedience

words as well as actions

facial expressions, groans

inappropriate crying

temper tantrums

complaining, whining, crankiness

irresponsibility

inappropriate behaviour--he should have known better

not listening

not remembering (he didn't take it seriously)

when the disobedience does no harm

bad attitudes, even when outwardly obeying

hitting

problem areas (bad habits, patterns)

disobeying without malicious attitude

I am FUMING! expecting your kid to be a perfect little obedient robot adult is more like, than a child! I'm so mad I can't even put together a proper sentence. and all these people would probably say they're teaching, disciplining, not punishing, and they're expectation's aren't unreasonable. :angry-banghead: Fuck you fundy parents who think abuse is the answer!

[JMarie]

I'd hate to figure out what falls under "inappropriate crying."

[docmom]

I can sumarize the "when to spank" side: When your kid is being a normal human being... :evil:

[Stephanie66]

Spank for hitting. Classic.

[August]

Spank for hitting. Classic.

IKR? I have won over more than one person by leading them along their train of thought.

I don't spank, except for really serious things.

Such as...?

Oh, running into the treet, hurting other people

So, like if they hit?

Uh-huh.

They hit, and then...?

I say "no hitting", and a sharp swat on the... wait.

I figure they may still get hit for running into the street, but at least I've helped a bit.

[lawlifelgbt]

IKR? I have won over more than one person by leading them along their train of thought.

I don't spank, except for really serious things.

Such as...?

Oh, running into the treet, hurting other people

So, like if they hit?

Uh-huh.

They hit, and then...?

I say "no hitting", and a sharp swat on the... wait.

I figure they may still get hit for running into the street, but at least I've helped a bit.

I used a similar train of thought! Fiancee was similarly spanked for "serious" things as a kid, and said it didn't hurt her, so she'd do it to our future kids.

So we agreed, only if they run into the street, and I won't be the one doing that.

[frumper-rump]

Spank for hitting. Classic.

My favorite... :pull-hair:

On Sunday, my brother yelled and spanked my 2-1/2 year old nephew for hitting him when he didnt want to go home. (I wonder why...) I almost had a come apart. My 19 month old has never seen a child get hit by an adult and he freaked out. I tried to get my brother to see how little sense it makes to teach a child not to hit by hitting him back. I think it did shake him up when he saw how badly my son reacted. He seemed shocked. Sadly, my mom was there to witness it and agreed with my brother that it was perfectly acceptable parenting. (she wont spank my kids- she does respect my wishes) After they left, I just sat down and cried for my nephew. I felt helpless. There really isnt much I can do but try to educate him and love on my nephew.

[tankgirl]

That is just sick, I saw pretty much one good bit of advice (don't make threats you won't keep or rules you won't uphold) but otherwise, that is the biggest pile of hateful shit, I have seen in a long time. I say that, as the whole, "but there is good stuff too", many fundies add after you corner them with the horrors of what the Pearls say, so sometimes I try to look at it their way, but nope, still shit.

For Tankkid, we never use hitting for discipline. Funny we found teaching our kid to have respect near roads, set boundaries like holding our hand always when crossing roads, and teaching Tank the word "Stop" means freeze don't move worked better then punishing after the fact. Interesting tidbit, two parents we have known who hit their kids for running in the street, still had kids who ran across the street. When I watched one of them a couple times a week, I required them to follow the same rules, no running across the street. Wow, who knew setting clear age appropriate, easy to follow rules, and following through with them all the time would work better then smacking a kid. Must be some of that hippy, satan magic I tell ya.

[Koala]

I used a similar train of thought! Fiancee was similarly spanked for "serious" things as a kid, and said it didn't hurt her, so she'd do it to our future kids.

So we agreed, only if they run into the street, and I won't be the one doing that.

First of all, if they run into the street and you can get your hands on them, you take them to safety, you don't hit them. A child that would run into the street is most likely going to be too young to have any idea why you are hitting them in the first place, and certainly too young to remember it the next time. It accomplishes nothing except causing momentary pain for the child. You're better off just watching them.

Second of all, if you have a small child that has managed to run off into the street, it is your fault, not theirs. Accidents happen, but to hit a child because of your mistake is ludicrous.

**side note** I know it's your fiance and not you, but as a parent it will be your responsibility to see that no one *including the other parent* is hitting your child.

[Koala]

My favorite... :pull-hair:

On Sunday, my brother yelled and spanked my 2-1/2 year old nephew for hitting him when he didnt want to go home. (I wonder why...) I almost had a come apart. My 19 month old has never seen a child get hit by an adult and he freaked out. I tried to get my brother to see how little sense it makes to teach a child not to hit by hitting him back. I think it did shake him up when he saw how badly my son reacted. He seemed shocked. Sadly, my mom was there to witness it and agreed with my brother that it was perfectly acceptable parenting. (she wont spank my kids- she does respect my wishes) After they left, I just sat down and cried for my nephew. I felt helpless. There really isnt much I can do but try to educate him and love on my nephew.

I am so sorry. That must have broken your heart.

[RosyDaisy]

Hitting or spanking is an act of violence and needs to be banned!!! What was written on that paper is horrifying and unconscionable!!! :evil:

[Vex]

Spank for hitting. I fucking love it.

All you do is teach your kids that they can't be anything less than perfect. They won't come to you with their mistakes or questions or problems because they're scared that they're wrong and that they'll get a spanking for it. That just makes for trouble. That specific list is just going to create a very fucked up young person.

I've said this a million times before, but perfect obedience makes perfect victims.

[Ariel]

You know how sometimes you find junk in secondhand handbags? I found a little paper list that could of been printed out or cut out of a shitty parenting book about how to deal with your kid's.

One side says:

Traps To Avoid

Never argue with your child

Never try to persuade your child to obey

never physically force your child to obey

.....what is spanking then...??

[August]

That is just sick, I saw pretty much one good bit of advice (don't make threats you won't keep or rules you won't uphold) but otherwise, that is the biggest pile of hateful shit, I have seen in a long time. I say that, as the whole, "but there is good stuff too", many fundies add after you corner them with the horrors of what the Pearls say, so sometimes I try to look at it their way, but nope, still shit.

For Tankkid, we never use hitting for discipline. Funny we found teaching our kid to have respect near roads, set boundaries like holding our hand always when crossing roads, and teaching Tank the word "Stop" means freeze don't move worked better then punishing after the fact. Interesting tidbit, two parents we have known who hit their kids for running in the street, still had kids who ran across the street. When I watched one of them a couple times a week, I required them to follow the same rules, no running across the street. Wow, who knew setting clear age appropriate, easy to follow rules, and following through with them all the time would work better then smacking a kid. Must be some of that hippy, satan magic I tell ya.

I did all of that for my bolter aaaand, they still bolted. There was a period of several months where every step outside the house was taken with stroller in hand. I would have used a leash but that probably would have caused a walking strike. And you know what? They outgrew it, no hitting needed.

.....what is spanking then...??

I know this one! Pick me!

Spanking is discipline. (FYI for those who claim their favorite fundy doesn't hit)

[Jana814]

I never understood the concept of: if u hit someone I will hit you.

[Mango]

I would think "Inappropriate crying" is, if you are rational, crying for attention or throwing a tantrum (in an older kid) but if you are less so, any crying that the parent doesn'tlike.

I *do* think a lot of the things on the list are perhaps worthy of SOME sort of discipline, but I do not see why anyone thinks hitting is okay. I don't have kids, but I care for a friend's daughter and we use time outs- they are quite effective and would be more so if they were consistantly enforced.

[singsingsing]

What's wrong with counting? My mum used to count all the time to get us to obey, and it worked like a charm pretty much every time. I never, ever wanted her to get to 10. I can still hear her voice so perfectly in my head, saying, "Four... Five... SIX... SEVEN....." At worst I would've been sent to my room or something, but for some reason it was really effective. No spanking required.

[Khan]

Growing up I got to witness many friends having the shit beaten out of them by their parents. This "discipline" taught so many of them that people who love you are supposed to hit you. Lots of abusive relationships. Trust issues. Panic disorders.

What great gifts to bestow upon one's children.

[August]

I would think "Inappropriate crying" is, if you are rational, crying for attention or throwing a tantrum (in an older kid) but if you are less so, any crying that the parent doesn'tlike.

I *do* think a lot of the things on the list are perhaps worthy of SOME sort of discipline, but I do not see why anyone thinks hitting is okay. I don't have kids, but I care for a friend's daughter and we use time outs- they are quite effective and would be more so if they were consistantly enforced.

Which of these do you think needs punishment? (discipline is proactive and internal)

delayed obedience

incomplete obedience

words as well as actions

facial expressions, groans

inappropriate crying

temper tantrums

complaining, whining, crankiness

irresponsibility

inappropriate behaviour--he should have known better

not listening

not remembering (he didn't take it seriously)

when the disobedience does no harm

bad attitudes, even when outwardly obeying

hitting

problem areas (bad habits, patterns)

disobeying without malicious attitude

All I can see that would need actual action by a parent is inappropriate behaviour, either dangerous to you or to another, and hitting. The rest would be easily dealt with by natural consequences or by fixing the issue that caused them. Always cranky when they get home from school? Snack in the car, or send them outside to play or to their room to read for half an hour while they decompress.

[smittykins]

What's wrong with counting? My mum used to count all the time to get us to obey, and it worked like a charm pretty much every time. I never, ever wanted her to get to 10. I can still hear her voice so perfectly in my head, saying, "Four... Five... SIX... SEVEN....." At worst I would've been sent to my room or something, but for some reason it was really effective. No spanking required.

I'm guessing because it's not instant obedience. The child thinks "I don't have to obey right away; I've got ten seconds before she gets mad."

[thoughtful]

As ever, I am so heartened by the kindness, logic and willingness to think ahead I see from parents and teachers on FJ. It prevents so much unwanted behavior.

And, once unwanted behavior happens, there are so many pain-free ways to persuade a child to change.

I can't remotely imagine any reason to use pain, ever.

[Marianne]

But parents are human... I'm against violence, but I'm bad to educate the little ones who live with me (not mine, those of my roommate). I don't know how. And sometimes, there are times when I'm tired, when I hear them scream, and I fall, and I give a spanking. I don't want to do it, but I can't control myself. I don't know how to make these perfect parents who are always "my kids love to eat vegetables," "I don't have to spank my children." I do not want to do it and I feel guilty (god, they are not my children, control your nerves! ") Luckily I don't have enough muscles to hurt them. So, please don't judge all parents who hit like monsters. Sometimes they are just human - as their children.

[Freed]

I just want to point out that that's a very dangerous mindset - "I can't control myself, but at least I'm not strong enough to hurt them!" It's not just the physical damage that's worrying, it's the psychological scars that it can - and does, in the vast majority of cases - cause.

I have a question: would you accept "I couldn't control myself" as a defense in any legal case?

[singsingsing]

"I can't control myself" is NO excuse. If you're hitting a child because you can't control yourself, you need help, and in the mean time you need to not be alone with these children. The fact that they are not your children does not make what you're doing better, if anything it makes it worse.

[Koala]

But parents are human... I'm against violence, but I'm bad to educate the little ones who live with me (not mine, those of my roommate). I don't know how. And sometimes, there are times when I'm tired, when I hear them scream, and I fall, and I give a spanking. I don't want to do it, but I can't control myself. I don't know how to make these perfect parents who are always "my kids love to eat vegetables," "I don't have to spank my children." I do not want to do it and I feel guilty (god, they are not my children, control your nerves! ") Luckily I don't have enough muscles to hurt them. So, please don't judge all parents who hit like monsters. Sometimes they are just human - as their children.

If you can't control yourself (and not hit children) then you shouldn't be living with any. Further, it does not take a "perfect parent" to not hit a child. According to your previous posts you are a music teacher. How are you able to control yourself so that you don't hit your students? Simple. You know you couldn't get away with it. It's the opposite for your roommate's children though- you've learned that you can get away with hitting them, so you allow yourself to do it. Your problem isn't that you can't control yourself, it's that you won't. Who else in your life do you hit? I am guessing no one, save those who either:

A. Can't hit you back

or

B. You can hit without consequence

Don't give me that "Don't judge me!11!! I hit kids, but I have no muscles and I can't control myself!" That's bullshit.