It was better when god was in control of our sex lives!

[Koala]

lorialexander.blogspot.com/2013/10/have-christians-destroyed-traditional.html

According to Dave Daubenmire Christians are responsible for destroying traditional marriage ~

From the day the church began to teach that sex was for recreation rather than for reproduction marriage was doomed. Birth-control paved the way to the bedroom as a playground. The church fights gay marriage while it winks and nods at fornication in all of its heterosexual forms. Christians’ selfishness destroyed marriage.

Not one good thing has come from birth control being introduced to this country. It has made it easier than ever to have promiscuous sex. It has allowed married couples to not want children. It has allowed children to be a throw away product, namely abortion. Men can get sex for free without commitment. We, not God, are in control of our sex lives now.

See, not ONE good thing has come from birth control! In the good ol' days, godly older women like Lori could easily identify the promiscuous sex havers because they were pregnant with a "blessing" just like they deserved!

Couples wanted children before birth control too! It's only since the pill that couples have dared to not want more/any children! Almost makes you wonder why Lori only has 4.

And the abortions! How many abortions has birth control caused?!?! Women everywhere taking birth control and getting an abortion whether they need one or not...for good measure you know. I guess they just don't love babies like Lori (nevermind that she supports force feeding and hitting them with a "strap").

Oh, and the menz. Instead of being the leaders they deserve to be, they're out there getting their milk without buying the cow.. :( <-------see sadz face here.

If all the older women would step up to the plate and teach the younger women the amazing value God puts on wives and mothers and that their place in the home has infinite value, the younger women would be content being wives and having children and men would want to stay married.

:pull-hair: :pull-hair: :pull-hair: :pull-hair:

[salex]

lorialexander.blogspot.com/2013/10/have-christians-destroyed-traditional.html

See, not ONE good thing has come from birth control! In the good ol' days, godly older women like Lori could easily identify the promiscuous sex havers because they were pregnant with a "blessing" just like they deserved!

Couples wanted children before birth control too! It's only since the pill that couples have dared to not want more/any children! Almost makes you wonder why Lori only has 4.

And the abortions! How many abortions has birth control caused?!?! Women everywhere taking birth control and getting an abortion whether they need one or not...for good measure you know. I guess they just don't love babies like Lori (nevermind that she supports force feeding and hitting them with a "strap").

Oh, and the menz. Instead of being the leaders they deserve to be, they're out there getting their milk without buying the cow.. :( <-------see sadz face here.

:pull-hair: :pull-hair: :pull-hair: :pull-hair:

What value has God put on wives and mothers? Isn't it so many pieces of silver, if you go into the old testament? MOre than a lamb, but less than an Ox?

I personally plan not ever to click on her site again as why give her more clicks.

Lori Alexander is a monster

Doug Phillips is a tool

[GeoBQn]

If sex is only for reproduction, then I'm sure Lori would have no problem with Ken leaving her once she hits menopause (if she hasn't already.)

[lilwriter85]

I knew this was about Lori based on the thread title. I laughed at the part about her saying birth control makes married couples to not want children. No, some married couples didn't want kids to begin with and others decided that kids weren't for them. Birth control for many married couples helps them plan out their lives better because it allows them to wait to have kids in better financial or career times. But we all know Lori preaches against that.

If Lori is going to blame something on married couples not wanting children she should be preaching against tubal litigation and vasectomies.

[Koala]

I was surprised she didn't mention tubal ligation and vasectomies too. My husband had a vasectomy when our youngest child was a few months old. I have high risk pregnancies, and once we had 2 healthy babies, we knew our family was complete.

I LOVE having children and being a mom, but a vasectomy was a GREAT decision for us and we have never regretted it. It has allowed us to not worry about pregnancy (see above) and I don't have to deal with birth control (I tried it once, but felt horrible the whole time I was on it). I probably could have found one that worked, but since we were done having kids a vasectomy made more sense.

We also want to provide certain things (vacations, college educations, cars) for the children we have, and we couldn't afford that if we had more. We are happy this way, and honestly I can't imagine what business it is of Lori's anyway.

[2xx1xy1JD]

How exactly has birth control allowed children to become a throw away product?

Birth control is what prevents pregnancy. No pregnancy when it's not wanted = no reason to have an abortion.

Look at abortion rates immediately after Ceausecu in Romania - women who had been forced into conceiving flocked to abort. Abortion rates were also sky-high in Russia, primarily as a result of lack of other birth control methods.

I also wonder if Lori ever realizes that much of her advice is mutually exclusive? She's preaching in favor of early marriage AND no birth control AND against college AND against government assistance AND against working mothers AND assumes a middle-class lifestyle which includes things like a house with a manicured lawn. Well, guess what? It's pretty hard to have all of the above at the same time. Sure, I got married (relatively) early - but we used birth control in the early years and I worked, because being married to a med student doesn't pay the bills. Sure, I have a very religious friend who married early and has a big and growing family - but she worked while her husband was in school. Sure, my sister and BIL have at times voluntarily reduced their work hours or resigned from positions in order to be there for the kids - but they stopped after two kids, knowing that my nephew with autism would require more time and resources.

Lori's not the brightest person around. She doesn't have a whole lot of critical thinking skills, and tends to take things at face value. I'm not saying this just to be snarky - her writing style, her sentence structure, her complete acceptance of whatever Mercola or some other quack says, her love of Hallmark movies, etc. seem to show that she's not a deep thinker, and that she's a sucker for both sweet stories and anyone who preaches forcefully.

So, Lori sees these white American Christian ladies, smiling in pictures with their line of children, and she thinks they are the sweetest things ever. If there are problems, she doesn't see them because she never looks beyond the surface. Even with families that are genuinely happy, she doesn't realize that these are mostly families that have made a deliberate choice to avoid birth control and have large families. No, the individual births may not have been planned, but the idea of having many children was, and in that context, the children would likely be wanted.

Look at the wider world, beyond that specific subculture, and you'll see that more babies weren't always valued.

********************************************************************

Since Lori is so fond of religious arguments, here are some more points for her to ponder.

1. The idea of pleasure in the marital bed is not recent. Read Genesis Ch. 2 - the parts where is says "it is not good for man to be alone" and "A man leaves his father and mother and clings to his wife, so that they become one flesh". If she's religious, she should realize that asexual reproduction takes place with some forms of life, but she must believe that God intentionally created sexual reproduction.

2. The birth control PILL is recent. Birth control is not. Withdrawal is referred to in Genesis. The Talmud - committed to writing approx. 1,500 years ago base on an existing oral tradition - documents detailed discussions of birth control involving a "moch" (cloth, similar to a sponge or diaphragm) and a sterilizing potion, and different situations in which their use would be warranted.

[Becket70]

I'm already in a bad mood since my bank burned down Friday night and I haven't heard one word on whether the vault holding the safety deposit boxes made it through. Intellectually, I know the vault is fireproof and waterproof but I am waiting to hear from the Bank. Now this ridiculous diatribe. For us it is a question of how may children could we afford to raise and send to college. Isn't that the guideline most people use? As for the birth control, if it is so evil, is she in favor of a Federal ban on birth control? The way things are going these days, I would not be surprised if someone suggests such a ban. Didn't Rick Santorum come close to it?

[GeoBQn]

Lori responds to someone who insists that birth control is a good thing:

Some types of birth control actually cause abortions. You think having one pregnancy after another is harmful? Look at Michelle Dugger. She looks amazing. Actually, I have read that it is better than having so many periods. All forms of birth control, besides the condom, hav many side effects. All drugs have side effects. Lately, I have seen commercials about lawsuits for birth control because of the side effects, including death. I don't know why you think maternal deaths have fallen since birth control. Few women die in childbirth anymore due to advanced medical care. I don't agree with one of your arguments, sorry.

I think Michelle Duggar's body is completely wrecked, but we won't know the extent for years. Pregnancy is better than periods? She mentions that condoms have no side effects, but I've never heard a fundie attempt to explain why condoms are not ok to use--they clearly can't cause what they would consider "abortions." I've only heard one explain that condoms can cause miscarriage by creating a "contraceptive mindset." The lawsuits for different birth control methods probably won't go through because they are over side effects that are already explained in the informational packet that comes with it. They also never tell the truth that pretty much every side effect of hormonal birth control has a much greater risk of happening during pregnancy.

[dairyfreelife]

I was surprised she didn't mention tubal ligation and vasectomies too. My husband had a vasectomy when our youngest child was a few months old. I have high risk pregnancies, and once we had 2 healthy babies, we knew our family was

But...but...where will the sperm go?

[salex]

Lori responds to someone who insists that birth control is a good thing:

I think Michelle Duggar's body is completely wrecked, but we won't know the extent for years. Pregnancy is better than periods? She mentions that condoms have no side effects, but I've never heard a fundie attempt to explain why condoms are not ok to use--they clearly can't cause what they would consider "abortions." I've only heard one explain that condoms can cause miscarriage by creating a "contraceptive mindset." The lawsuits for different birth control methods probably won't go through because they are over side effects that are already explained in the informational packet that comes with it. They also never tell the truth that pretty much every side effect of hormonal birth control has a much greater risk of happening during pregnancy.

These people-- you can end pregnancies with your mind, by your body shutting down in the case of a real rape, by having used condoms in the past.

If people could think away pregnancies, there would be no need for abortions....

:pull-hair:

[August]

I'm an older woman. She's right, I do have some things to teach you younger ladies. Gather round and listen up, this is important for you to learn, young 'uns...

- you are valuable and worthwhile in your own right

- you almost certainly won't die alone and/or virginal, even if you say no to that asshole but available guy right now

- use more than one form of birth control at a time, just to be sure, and make sure one of them is a condom/dental dam.

- it's OK to say no, and it's OK to say yes

- have fun

- parenting is much easier with a good coparent, so try to arrange it that way

I'm sure I've missed some, but I think those are the important points.

[docmom]

So Lori, the spanking, is it recreational or reproductional*?

* if fundies can invent words, then so can I

[Loveday]

I'm an older woman. She's right, I do have some things to teach you younger ladies. Gather round and listen up, this is important for you to learn, young 'uns...

- you are valuable and worthwhile in your own right

- you almost certainly won't die alone and/or virginal, even if you say no to that asshole but available guy right now

- use more than one form of birth control at a time, just to be sure, and make sure one of them is a condom/dental dam.

- it's OK to say no, and it's OK to say yes

- have fun

- parenting is much easier with a good coparent, so try to arrange it that way

I'm sure I've missed some, but I think those are the important points.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

I think I'm older than Lori. I wonder how she'd feel if I 'mentored' her. :twisted:

[Minerva]

:clap: :clap: :clap:

I think I'm older than Lori. I wonder how she'd feel if I 'mentored' her. :twisted:

Please do it.

ETA Lori Alexander is a monster.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Lori responds to someone who insists that birth control is a good thing:

I think Michelle Duggar's body is completely wrecked, but we won't know the extent for years. Pregnancy is better than periods? She mentions that condoms have no side effects, but I've never heard a fundie attempt to explain why condoms are not ok to use--they clearly can't cause what they would consider "abortions." I've only heard one explain that condoms can cause miscarriage by creating a "contraceptive mindset." The lawsuits for different birth control methods probably won't go through because they are over side effects that are already explained in the informational packet that comes with it. They also never tell the truth that pretty much every side effect of hormonal birth control has a much greater risk of happening during pregnancy.

Does the logic fail never end?

1. Michelle Duggar only looks relatively ok because TLC arranges for her to have her hair and make-up done (which is why her older pictures and shows were hideous). If you actually pay attention to what's happening on the show, she and Josie nearly died, she lost Jubilee and her own doctor basically said that it wasn't recommended but Michelle was determined to keep having babies anyway.

2. Pregnancy vs. periods: Ok, here she's taking a tiny kernel of truth and completely misunderstanding it. There are some in the medical community who will argue that regular periods increase the risk of anemia and ovarian cancer. Guess what reduces these risks? Birth control pills!

3. What exactly are the many side effects for vaginal contraceptive film, sponges, other spermicides and/or diaphragms, assuming no allergies? Or for NFP?

4. Yes, death in pregnancy or childbirth is far less common now - but it still happens. Birth control allows those who are at higher risk to avoid potentially dangerous pregnancies without being forced into celibacy.

5. No major form of birth control works by disrupting an established pregnancy. Some work by preventing sperm from getting into the cervix, some work by preventing ovulation altogether, some work by preventing egg from meeting sperm after sex, some make the uterine lining resistant to implantation. Incidentally, breastfeeding can also reduce the odds that a fertilized egg will successfully implant and become a successful pregnancy, but we don't refer to it as causing abortions.

[Minerva]

Hey, if I order my birth control over the phone from a sketchy "natural" medicine company, is it still sinful?

5. No major form of birth control works by disrupting an established pregnancy. Some work by preventing sperm from getting into the cervix, some work by preventing ovulation altogether, some work by preventing egg from meeting sperm after sex, some make the uterine lining resistant to implantation. Incidentally, breastfeeding can also reduce the odds that a fertilized egg will successfully implant and become a successful pregnancy, but we don't refer to it as causing abortions.

Don't confuse Lori with facts, JD. Facts are of the devil.

[guidedbybobafett]

This boring dinosaur and her boring dinosaur opinions. What a stuck up old prude. She sounds dusty and irrelevant, just like every ~Christian~ who whines about bringing the community back into the bedroom. Nobody wants to do that anymore, Lori. Sorry you didn't get to grow up in your perfect era, and not being a judgmental busybody is just so tough for you. :lol:

[Hane]

Another one of us here who is older than Lori and would LOVE to mentor her.

FJians over 60: Am I alone in being righteously ticked that most contraceptive technology is essentially the same as it was 45 years ago? And why aren't people jumping on the new temporary male contraceptive methods? Are teh boys afraid of having their eentsy-beentsy ballsacks tampered with? Awwwww.

[lilith]

So when Ken was insisting on fucking Lori in public campground bathrooms it was purely for reproductive purposes and not for his recreation? Really?

[Minerva]

Another one of us here who is older than Lori and would LOVE to mentor her.

FJians over 60: Am I alone in being righteously ticked that most contraceptive technology is essentially the same as it was 45 years ago? And why aren't people jumping on the new temporary male contraceptive methods? Are teh boys afraid of having their eentsy-beentsy ballsacks tampered with? Awwwww.

Most of the guys I've heard talk about male contraception were totally squeamish about it. "OMG, did you read about the side effects? There can be localized pain! And mood swings!" The horror.

[lilith]

So when Ken was insisting on fucking Lori in public campground bathrooms it was purely for reproductive purposes and not for his recreation? Really?

[Minerva]

So when Ken was insisting on fucking Lori in public campground bathrooms it was purely for reproductive purposes and not for his recreation? Really?

Oh God, do I even want to know?

[Myfanwy]

I have some advice that might be helpful - don't take advice from people whose only source of reference is a 2000 year old book.

[Curious]

Maybe I have my fundie whackadoos mixed up, but isn't Lori the one that said that women should have sex whenever their husbands want it, even on vacation in front of their children? Get creative and get busy in the campground shower if you have it?

If sex is ONLY for reproduction, there is a very tiny window during which one should be having sex. Maybe 3-4 days a month. You could maybe stretch that to a week, I suppose, but you should not have sex every day, but every other day during that period of time. So let's say it's a week, every other day. The most you should be having sex is 4 time per month.

So which way is it, Lori? Only for reproduction or anytime your husband wants it? You can't have it both ways :)

[dairyfreelife]

Maybe I have my fundie whackadoos mixed up, but isn't Lori the one that said that women should have sex whenever their husbands want it, even on vacation in front of their children? Get creative and get busy in the campground shower if you have it?

If sex is ONLY for reproduction, there is a very tiny window during which one should be having sex. Maybe 3-4 days a month. You could maybe stretch that to a week, I suppose, but you should not have sex every day, but every other day during that period of time. So let's say it's a week, every other day. The most you should be having sex is 4 time per month.

So which way is it, Lori? Only for reproduction or anytime your husband wants it? You can't have it both ways :)

nope, you are not confused. it was Lori who said that, said both. She doesn't know half of what she saying. Unlike Smary and other nuts, Lori's stupid nonsense can be blamed in part on her brain tumor. Or at least that's what I like to tell myself to believe that she doesn't honestly believe all this shit. :?