Rand Paul: "War on Christianity!"

[xReems]

So, Pecan Thief attended the FRC event yesterday and tweeted the following:

Wow! Thnx @SenRandPaul 4defending abused, persecuted & violated Christians across the globe! "War is on Christianity" pic.twitter.com/T8V1McfW7I

Next, I found an article from The Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/pos ... istianity/

[not breaking the link because it's a news site]

Seriously, Christians being persecuted?! Honestly, I think other religions are being persecuted and abused for not following Jesus! Muslims are being abused because they're being lumped into the "terrorist" group, Sikhs are being persecuted because dimwitted Christians think that they are "terrorists" because of the turban (they're called Paghs) they wear, Atheists are being persecuted for not following any religion, etc! Why is that these fundamentalists bitch and complain that there is a war on Christianity, when they are the ones complaining about "nonbelievers" who will burn in Hell for not accepting Jesus?!

I've seen Hindu temples (mandirs) being protested for being a "false religion because they believe in multiple Gods", and people going BEZERK when a mosque is being built in their home town. Seriously?! And CHristians are the ones who are being persecuted?

Rand Paul, there is no war on Christianity. The view of the world is starting to change and you just refuse to accept these changes. You think that because some people are for gay rights and women's rights, your religion is being persecuted...that makes no sense.

Do us all a favor and shut the fuck up.

Some people just need to get slapped in the face...with a chair. :angry-banghead:

[Verin Sedai]

His words were "worldwide".

Christians in America do have it good, and sectors of them are often the ones committing persecution against other religions.

That's not the case all across the world. There are many countries where Christians have similar advantages to American Christians, and still others where they are not necessarily a privileged group, but a decently tolerated one. And then there are the countries where being a Christian or leaving your religion to become a Christian gets you killed, tortured, raped. Syria, Egypt, Indonesia, etc., are just a few that spring to mind. I remember a terrible case in Turkey a few years ago.

I'm not saying that Christians who whine about persecution in America or other tolerant countries DON'T need to shut up. I'm just saying don't equate America's situation with the world situation, especially when that's what we're talking about here.

[E Street Fan]

"You're confusing a war on religion with not getting what you want." --Jon Stewart

[salex]

Today's war is perpetrated by "a fanatical element of Islam," Rand said, adding that most Muslims are not commited to violence against Christians. However, those who are number in the tens of millions, he said. And it falls upon Muslims themselves to take on their violent brothers.

"Some politicians say that this war on Christianity means that we must fight a large conventional war against all radical Islam. ... This isn't going to be fought with a conventional war, it's going to require Islam to police Islam," Paul said, imploring Muslims to embrace what he described as a more peaceful, enlightened past.

Well, Christians haven't been able to police the "fanatical element of Christianity" or a lot of the people we snark on and likely Rand Paul would not be in the news.

He's going from the conservative playbook I posted a couple of days ago.

This essay is based on the belief that the truth of an idea is not the primary reason for its acceptance. Far more important is the energy and dedication of the idea's promoters--in other words, the individuals composing a social or political movement.

(From Eric Heubeck The Integration of Theory and Practice: A Program for the New Traditionalist Movement)

[LittleMama]

Christians in the US get little persecution. It is usually social (people not wanting to visit you, make fun of you praying or your dress, etc) and not very intrusive. But in most countries where there is no freedom of religion it is a nightmare for anyone claiming a religion other than what is taught by the government or leader. Like mentioned before: bombings,rape, prison sentences, and even murder are common. Not to mention the difficulty have or even find a religious text contrary to whats accepted in that culture. It does happen to a lot of Christians because it is spread fiercely and many people find comfort in the peaceful words of Jesus amongst the strife of a waring nation... But it happens to many other religions too that are a minority or not allowed. Just think of North Korea and how they have shut themselves off from the world- anyone who thinks contrary to the leader is jailed or killed automatically. Rough.

[Andromeda]

I'm sure I've said this before, but I have no idea how fundies can hold these two ideas simultaneously without their brains breaking:

(a) Christianity is a persecuted minority.

(b) This is a Christian country, and Christianity is so thoroughly in the majority that no other beliefs need to be respected.

Pick one, people. It can't be both.

(It can, however, be NEITHER!)

[Arete]

Christians in the US get little persecution. It is usually social (people not wanting to visit you, make fun of you praying or your dress, etc) and not very intrusive.

This is petty meanness, NOT persecution. Big difference. I am a Christian, I would have noticed if I was persecuted here.

My dad and my uncles came from a country where their political orientations collectively earned them police beatings, jail time, and death threats. THAT is persecution.

[LittleMama]

I'm sure I've said this before, but I have no idea how fundies can hold these two ideas simultaneously without their brains breaking:

(a) Christianity is a persecuted minority.

(b) This is a Christian country, and Christianity is so thoroughly in the majority that no other beliefs need to be respected.

Pick one, people. It can't be both.

(It can, however, be NEITHER!)

Honestly, I think it is neither, but let me explain. Most people who are living-believing Christians (as in they read the Bible which explains what it means) respect others beliefs and live peaceful lives. Our country is not "Christian" because a country can't be a religion- and most who just say "Christian" usually just mean they believe in a God and they may go to church on Easter or Xmas.... Or believe in guardian angels. Our country has used items in Christianity to form culture but that doesn't mean it is doing it well, right, or because they truly believe it. If Christianity really is supposed to be a "personal relationship with God" it has nothing to do with a whole country. My 2 cents, anyway. :)

[Verin Sedai]

This is petty meanness, NOT persecution. Big difference. I am a Christian, I would have noticed if I was persecuted here.

My dad and my uncles came from a country where their political orientations collectively earned them police beatings, jail time, and death threats. THAT is persecution.

Right, persecuted HERE.

Did anybody else read the article? He said WORLDWIDE. I know fundies unfairly cry of persecution in America but it IS a problem worldwide and it always will be.

I actually applaud Paul's remarks that in cases of Muslim-on-Christian violence, it must be other Muslims who stand up for peace. Some of the most beautiful pictures of peace and harmony between different-thinking peoples I have seen are those of Muslim men forming human barriers around a Christian church meeting in an embattled area.

ETA: Went back to read it again to make sure I wasn't talking out my ass. He said "From Boston to Zanzibar"... so yeah, I guess he is claiming it in America as well. Although using Boston instead of an "A" named city (to fit an "a to z" theme) makes me think he's referencing the Boston marathon bombing and claiming that as religious persecution against us as a "Christian" nation. I thought that Islamist terrorist preached violence against America because of our godlessness, not our supposed Christianity.

Anyhow, my point about worldwide persecution being a problem for Christians still stands.

[LittleMama]

This is petty meanness, NOT persecution. Big difference. I am a Christian, I would have noticed if I was persecuted here.

My dad and my uncles came from a country where their political orientations collectively earned them police beatings, jail time, and death threats. THAT is persecution.

I apologize if my use of "a little social persecution" offended you. I don't think anything else I said went against what you brought up, only agreement. Sorry for the offense. :)

[Verin Sedai]

From the comments section of the article:

I might start taking people like this seriously if they put as much time, money, and effort into helping oppressed Christians around the world (which do exist) rather than going berserk over squabbles about crosses at memorials and teachers making dumb decisions about kid's term papers and whether or not the cashiers at the grocery store say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas."

As a Christian, I agree with this SO hard. We will win no respect until we start acting respectably.

[Arete]

I was responding specifically to something LittleMama wrote and that was quoted in my response. No argument that in some parts of the world, Christians are truly persecuted and your safety can turn on a dime at a shift in mob temperature. Given what a complete and total asshole Rand Paul is, it does persecuted Christians in other parts of the world no favors to have their plight associated with his name.

[Verin Sedai]

I was responding specifically to something LittleMama wrote and that was quoted in my response. No argument that in some parts of the world, Christians are truly persecuted and your safety can turn on a dime at a shift in mob temperature. Given what a complete and total asshole Rand Paul is, it does persecuted Christians in other parts of the world no favors to have their plight associated with his name.

Sorry, I took it out of context. There were so many responses so far ignoring the worldwide aspect that I felt like I was shouting into a black hole and I didn't read as carefully as I should.

[LittleMama]

Okay now I feel like no one read my post and just stopped after the first sentence or two...? As explanation to the responses I am getting.

[Arete]

No, I read the whole response. I simply don't believe that people being high school level jackasses about other people's level of religious observance qualifies for a title like social persecution, or has anything to do with persecution.

Persecution means your life is on the line for your beliefs or innate characteristics. It is not about the potential for social cruelty, it is about the potential of getting dead.

[LittleMama]

No, I read the whole response. I simply don't believe that people being high school level jackasses about other people's level of religious observance qualifies for a title like social persecution, or has anything to do with persecution.

Persecution means your life is on the line for your beliefs or innate characteristics. It is not about the potential for social cruelty, it is about the potential of getting dead.

Thanks for responding. I have a hard time sometimes wondering how well this form of conversation works (like FB comment debates).

I actually wasn't sure what the real definition was so I looked it up, and Webster said it was to threaten, harass or annoy, so I looked it up on wiki (yes I know I don't even think you can use that as a credible source on a college paper but here it is) and it said "systematic mistreatment inducing suffering, harassment, isolation, imprisionment, fear, pain". It said the severity must be in account and that level is up to debate."

Obviously I do not think Christians are being murdered in the US so by that definition you are right, no persecution there.

[FloraKitty35]

Someone will call you a wahhh-ambulance, you merkin wearing tool. :violin:

[Miggy]

His words were "worldwide".

Christians in America do have it good, and sectors of them are often the ones committing persecution against other religions.

That's not the case all across the world. There are many countries where Christians have similar advantages to American Christians, and still others where they are not necessarily a privileged group, but a decently tolerated one. And then there are the countries where being a Christian or leaving your religion to become a Christian gets you killed, tortured, raped. Syria, Egypt, Indonesia, etc., are just a few that spring to mind. I remember a terrible case in Turkey a few years ago.

I'm not saying that Christians who whine about persecution in America or other tolerant countries DON'T need to shut up. I'm just saying don't equate America's situation with the world situation, especially when that's what we're talking about here.

Well said. I have many relatives who are Coptic Orthodox and, back in Egypt, they really are persecuted.

Can I just ask everyone to be careful about the use of majority/minority when talking about persecution please? In most cases it is the ruling class who persecute a working class. Yes, the ruling class is often the majority but not always.