Beware: Babies raised by men could be delayed in speech

[Closed Womb]

independent.co.uk/voices/comment/virginia-ironsides-dilemmas-baby-daddy-8774550.html\

A househusband recently spoke of his experiences with his baby daughter. What he found, to his distress, was that the child was incredibly backward in her speech as she grew older. That was because fathers don’t automatically spout the kind of maternal drivel that is so important in a child’s learning development. “Oh, how are you, what lovely little toes you have, look at this picture there’s a cow, moo moo, you can say moo too, moo moo, yes, aren’t you a clever one, yes aren’t you a clever one, you are, you are†– on an on ad infinitum. Men are a lot more reticent.

Wut? :think:

I totally expect people like Lori and Sunshine Mary to be quoting this advice columnist as a "source" any moment now.

[Conuly]

Oh, god, where does one even start???

[lilah]

Maternal drivel?

Seriously dude, bite me. Yes studies show that talking to your baby improves language development. No evidence that only women are capable of talking to babies.

[FJismyheadship]

I don't talk to my baby like that. I talk to her like a human being... in a slightly higher pitched voice.

My grandma just asks her if she peed her panties.

She says Mama now! Maybe doesn't matter because I am female therefor I win?

Whatever.

[lilwriter85]

I agree with ClosedWomb, I expect Lori or SSM to quote this. I think Lori is very likely to do it. She had a blog posting slamming stay at home dads last year.

That article was plain dumb and Virgina's advice sucks. I have witnessed many fathers speak to their babies.

[oil]

You know what I hate to agree with that but my older brother is studies for doctorate child psychology and the studies for sure show the men statistically dont speak to babies as do the women. And the early speaking to babies has a lot influence on speech. But it also shows the may be delayed speech babies "catch up" by primary school like by 6/7 year old. So the question of my brother is "does it matter" if it catch up any way. This is science not bias.

[bananacat]

You know what I hate to agree with that but my older brother is studies for doctorate child psychology and the studies for sure show the men statistically dont speak to babies as do the women. And the early speaking to babies has a lot influence on speech. But it also shows the may be delayed speech babies "catch up" by primary school like by 6/7 year old. So the question of my brother is "does it matter" if it catch up any way. This is science not bias.

Can you actually reference the specific studies?

[oil]

Can you actually reference the specific studies?

I will ask him, he has it for his papers. Yes I feel now foolish to refer studies that I never seen them, only from talking about it at table. I will get them from him.

[theologygeek]

You know what I hate to agree with that but my older brother is studies for doctorate child psychology and the studies for sure show the men statistically dont speak to babies as do the women. And the early speaking to babies has a lot influence on speech. But it also shows the may be delayed speech babies "catch up" by primary school like by 6/7 year old. So the question of my brother is "does it matter" if it catch up any way. This is science not bias.

I agree with you. I saw a documentary about this a long time ago. It was actually quite interesting. Women have a built in instinct to teach their babies how to talk. They enunciate every letter without realizing they are even doing it. They made men and women say the same things to their own babies. It was cool to watch. The documentary had to be over 20 years old, because I remember that my own child was a baby when I saw it. I realized that I did the same thing as the women on the show.

[Mama Mia]

I agree with you. I saw a documentary about this a long time ago. It was actually quite interesting. Women have a built in instinct to teach their babies how to talk. They enunciate every letter without realizing they are even doing it. They made men and women say the same things to their own babies. It was cool to watch. The documentary had to be over 20 years old, because I remember that my own child was a baby when I saw it. I realized that I did the same thing as the women on the show.

Yeah, I remember learning this in a Child development class that focused on linguistics in college. It was a very long time ago so I don't recall the details, but I recall there were studies thar focused on the differences in the ways parents communicate and that the high pitched baby talk and constant chatter is actually really useful in promoting language development. Although as Oil pointed out, it all evens out in the end anyway.

What I wonder is if parents now babble to their children less because they are often on the computer ?

[theologygeek]

Yeah, I remember learning this in a Child development class that focused on linguistics in college. It was a very long time ago so I don't recall the details, but I recall there were studies thar focused on the differences in the ways parents communicate and that the high pitched baby talk and constant chatter is actually really useful in promoting language development. Although as Oil pointed out, it all evens out in the end anyway.

What I wonder is if parents now babble to their children less because they are often on the computer ?

Yes, it was a long time ago. I don't remember much either, but one other thing I do remember. They showed how the man and woman will talk the same way to the baby from a distance, but each talks differently when looking into the child's eyes. For instance, if the baby is playing on the floor and batting at a toy, the father will walk by and say "Hey there, whatcha doin?" The mother will do the same thing. But when both parents are told to hold the baby and look into his eyes and ask him what he is doing, the father will speak the same way, and the mother will enunciate every letter, speak slower than she did before, and say "What are you doing?"

[Sola]

Can you actually reference the specific studies?

I know which ones Oil is referencing. Don't have them to hand right now but I can probably find them out later. Basically men in general aren't as verbose with babies, neither are they as likely to speak baby-talk which has been shown to help develop reciprocal speech patterns. Some men buck the trend obviously, my husband was very fluent in baby-talk, still is lol!

[Blahblah]

My only experience is with my own kids. I am not a "maternal type" and frankly am bewildered by "baby talk". My kids were spoken to in proper English from day one. I am probably more male than female when it comes to my attitudes, speech patterns etc going by this article's dstinctions between genders.

My first born, a boy, was using simple sentences at 12 months. "Me ball" for example and hasn't shut up since. His younger sister was much the same.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

I wouldn't be surprised if men talk less to babies then moms. Of course, this can be solved by educating dads who are the primary caregiver (and co-parents too) about childhood speech development. But of course this is the type of thing that a fundie looks at and declares "proof" that only women should be primary caregivers. Kind of like when they say that the discrimination that women experience in the workplace means women shouldn't work, rather than that the culture of work needs to evolve.

[polecat]

I've heard about this. But I also have to admit that I was a non-baby-talk speaker. I just couldn't. I talked to my babies like they were little people. The first two spoke right on cue, but the last didn't say a word until three. The ped thought that it was because he had two older brothers NOT because I wasn't baby talking them. But I don't know -- when he DID finally start talking, he was using full sentences. It was weird. Anyway, his speech is fine now.

[AuntCloud]

I bet it wouldn't be a problem for babies growing with more than one exhausted adult in their lives. You know, ones living in a normal, not crazy-isolated households where they meet parents, extended family and friends on a regular basis.

Has anyone compared the amount of "motherese" (yes, it is a word) babies hear when they grow up in a typical family as a first born or one of 2, 3 or 4 vs. growing up as #18?

I found myself speaking fluent motherese to a colleague's 8 month old at the company bbq. It's not likely many hard-core, isolationist fundie babies will be toted to either of their parents company bbq.

[Childless]

My husband is a stay at home parent. He does a wonderful job (and is probably 100 times better at it than I would be). He talks to our son constantly. Neither he nor I ever spoke "baby talk" to him, so there would be no difference if I were the stay at home parent. However, after I come home from work, I spend the entire afternoon and evening talking to my kid. I read to him at bedtime. I bathe him and talk to him while he plays in the tub. I spend plenty of time talking to him as he's my only child. I wonder if fundie moms (who have to split their time between a half a dozen to a dozen kids) talk to their children as much as I talk to my son? I'm going to guess no.

[Closed Womb]

The advice columnists told a woman with an excellent job offer, and a partner willing to stay home with baby (because he worked from home), that it would be madness to take the job, that she had already been "headhunted" by her baby; she already had a job (rearing the child.) This "concern" about language is being used to guilt a woman into being a SAHM, at least temporarily.

That said, it is interesting (and I was surprised to learn) that some women engage with children differently. I'm glad that it appears children raised by men have no permanent speech impairments.

[Black Aliss]

Maternal drivel?

Seriously dude, bite me. Yes studies show that talking to your baby improves language development. No evidence that only women are capable of talking to babies.

My first thought was, "So what's ThatWife's excuse?"

[August]

I don't talk to my baby like that. I talk to her like a human being... in a slightly higher pitched voice.

My grandma just asks her if she peed her panties.

She says Mama now! Maybe doesn't matter because I am female therefor I win?

Whatever.

You win inside the house, with babies and cleaning and stuff. Outside the house you lose, automatically.

[August]

Yeah, I remember learning this in a Child development class that focused on linguistics in college. It was a very long time ago so I don't recall the details, but I recall there were studies thar focused on the differences in the ways parents communicate and that the high pitched baby talk and constant chatter is actually really useful in promoting language development. Although as Oil pointed out, it all evens out in the end anyway.

What I wonder is if parents now babble to their children less because they are often on the computer ?

I think computers have just slid into the spot TV held before. But I wonder what effect background noise vs silence and real distraction have.

Why can't parents be educated in what form of talking helps babies learn best? I mean, they taught us how to lay them down to sleep, how to feed them, etc.

[Many_Spaynes]

independent.co.uk/voices/comment/virginia-ironsides-dilemmas-baby-daddy-8774550.html\

So talking to babies is necessary but when women do it it's "maternal drivel." Good to know.

ETA cos riffles. <----- I should add that sentence as my signature line.

[tanksmom]

I have to wonder how much of this is based on what men and women are taught as they grow up? Many moons ago when my oldest was born there was an article that newborns being taken care of by men have a higher rate of diaper rash. The proposed reason was that women are more "in tune" with the newborn and will change the diaper sooner. My personal view is that men up until a generation or so weren't expected to change diapers so they didn't think to change them as frequently.

Could the difference in developing speech be as simple as telling men, hey you need to slow down just a little when you talk to a baby? So many people automatically assume that there is some sort of maternal switch that happens once a baby is born that men just don't understand. What if it is just society that is still telling men that they aren't as good as women at raising children?

Although this thought is coming from someone who was a stay at home mom until the kids were in first grade and yet they are both in speech therapy so what can you do?

[ILoveJellybeans]

Yeah, thats possible. Little girls are encouraged to play with dolls, and expected to be the main one looking after their babies when they are adults, but little boys are encouraged to not play with dolls or anything caring-they are to be manly and tough, and all over TV it is ingrained into our culture that men are not good with babies or looking after the house.

I wonder whether this will change as it becomes more acceptable to go against gender roles.

[JesusFightClub]

Oil has the right of it, I reckon. And as she says, if it all evens out in the end, is it so terrible?

This just looks like more ammo against any type of family but the '50s ideal - "Mummy stays at home with two little white babies and one on the way, while Daddy strides out to work at his manly engineering job".

I get sick of all these articles which trumpet the negatives without ever thinking of the positives. When Small and Smaller (my nieces) lost their mum, there were lots of people who thought all kinds of strange things. Some thought my mum and dad would have to adopt them (My mum works full time and travels a lot in her job, my dad has cancer). Some people thought I would have to adopt them (I was living a chaotic lifestyle at the time and couldn't well take care of myself, let alone small children. Social Services would have had them off me in a heartbeat). Some people thought they would go into care or a foster home, for no apparent reason but the idea that a man couldn't take care of female children. :pink-shock:

Sometimes you hope the 21st century has brought in different attitudes, then you realise there are people determined that nothing should ever change, ever. And that those people tend to be white and well off.