"Preachers Who Don't Believe In God"

[dawbs]

So, I listened to this today, on the CBC:

http://www.cbc.ca/andthewinneris/2013/0 ... ve-in-god/

I thought it was worth listening to and it was rather heartbreaking, the number of people who are dealing with the large repercussions of shifting belief systems..

Daniel Dennett came off a lot more sympathetic than the people who gave wholehearted condemnation when the article hit.

This is info on study that sparked it:

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfa ... Clergy.pdf

http://www.albertmohler.com/2010/03/18/ ... e-pastors/

[Gertie]

This sounds interesting! I've just downloaded the podcast, so I'll probably listen to it on my way home from work tonight.

[lilwriter85]

I'll listen to the podcast later on. I think some of the pastors were apart of the ABC new segment a few years back about pastors who are closet atheists. I remember one pastor became an atheist after he did a deep reading of the Bible and a few of them said they couldn't leave their ministries for personal reasons such as family and fiances.

[anachronistic]

This is why I love being a Unitarian Universalist. It is perfectly acceptable in our religion to be an atheist and a minister. In fact, I've met several people who are, and plenty of UU's, like myself, who are atheists. We honestly don't care if your beliefs change as long as you still treat others and the earth with kindness, and don't switch the coffee to decaf.

[salex]

I'll listen to the podcast later on. I think some of the pastors were apart of the ABC new segment a few years back about pastors who are closet atheists. I remember one pastor became an atheist after he did a deep reading of the Bible and a few of them said they couldn't leave their ministries for personal reasons such as family and fiances.

My brother in law got his masters in theology/ministry at a Seminary and was ordained in the late 80s. He never had a church because he immediately divorced his wife and moved in with a co-worker/employee from his regular job.

At one point he told us that what his denomination teaches (American Baptist) and what the ministers/pastors know from their study at seminay are so far apart. He said that as far as his professors could tell, Revelation was a maybe as far as being written by John and anyone's guess as to what, if anything it meant was as good as the next person's--that it might have been included because it was one of many similar types of writing. I was aqainted with one of his classmates, who apparently agreed with him on this, but they also agreed that "the flock" was not sophisticated enough to know the truths they had been taught, so his friend continued to preach Revelation as if he believed it (and likely argued Pre, Mid or Post Trib tirelessly)

Later, when he had business reversals and his second wife was sick, he found a church that was more fundie than American Baptist, and he and his dying wife were embraced. He started using the buzzwords again (We live in a fallen world) and pray for healing for his wife (as opposed to pay for chemo) and was the model widower when the prayer didn't work. When she'd been dead long enough that attention moved from him, he moved on to other things, but he's still playing the "deeply religious person" game. When he was trying to succeed in business, he claimed to have a masters in management from that school, though anyone who googled would have seen they don't offer such a degree. But, since the straight business endeavors didn't work out, he's back to businessman for god or super volunteer as a way to be accepted by some group socially.

[GolightlyGrrl]

This is why I love being a Unitarian Universalist. It is perfectly acceptable in our religion to be an atheist and a minister. In fact, I've met several people who are, and plenty of UU's, like myself, who are atheists. We honestly don't care if your beliefs change as long as you still treat others and the earth with kindness, and don't switch the coffee to decaf.

Yep, I'm a lapsed Catholic turned UU. It's good to be amongst like-minded people who don't care if you're an Atheist, Christian, Jew, humanist, Pagan or whatever as a long as you're a good person...and appreciate a good cup of joe!

[FJismyheadship]

I have been around a few people who I don't believe when they preach. One of the churches I used to attend had a great pastor who everyone loved. He moved on to bigger and better things, and the next one came in. I just cannot believe what he says. I get the idea he is a great guy... but when he preaches it makes me wince because I don't believe he believes what he is preaching.

This is a church where spiritual gifts are encouraged. I have been told I have very strong discernment... but how do you tell someone you don't think the preacher means what he says?

[Gertie]

I finally listened to the podcast. Right at the end, the researcher says something like "I think religion will change more in the next 20 years than in the past 100. And it's changed more in the past 100 than in the past millenium." I'm curious about that. Has religion changed that much in the past 100 years? I'm vaguely familiar with the Catholic vatican 2 changes but not at all with recent changes in other denominations or religions. In any case, I'm curious to see how it'll change during my lifetime...

[miffy]

My great grandfather was one. :D He was a Reverend, not a 'preacher'.

I think he did believe in god, but he had a humanistic/quaker-ish perspective later in life.

[Pam]

My great grandfather was one. :D He was a Reverend, not a 'preacher'.

I think he did believe in god, but he had a humanistic/quaker-ish perspective later in life.

I think that if I were considering joining an organized religious group, I would give some serious thought to becoming a Quaker.

[lizziesmom]

This is why I love being a Unitarian Universalist. It is perfectly acceptable in our religion to be an atheist and a minister. In fact, I've met several people who are, and plenty of UU's, like myself, who are atheists. We honestly don't care if your beliefs change as long as you still treat others and the earth with kindness, and don't switch the coffee to decaf.

I don't know much about UU's. How can you be an atheist as part of a religion?

[Hane]

Lizziesmom, give us UUs a couple of months of your free time and, in between arguing with each other, we'll try to explain. We often call ourselves religious humanists, and define religion as a voluntary union of likeminded people. Some of us are atheist, some are agnostic, some are liberal Christians or Jews, some are Pagan/Wiccan, some are Buddhist--and I'm just talking about my own small congregation of about 85 members. For more info, visit uua.org.

[Deesire]

Hane,

What makes the group of people like-minded if they have such diverse beliefs?

[anachronistic]

Deesire - UUism is a religion based not on belief, but on actions. We covenant (agree to) abide by a certain set of parameters, (the 7 Principles) but within those parameters, there is enough room for all.

7 Principles of UUism:

The inherent worth and dignity of every person;

Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;

Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;

A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;

The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;

The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;

Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

[Sobeknofret]

I think that if I were considering joining an organized religious group, I would give some serious thought to becoming a Quaker.

I did :)