Unemployed men at home

[YPestis]

I was listening to an interesting podcast on "Stuff Mom Never Told You" regarding the recent recession's effect on the domestic front. Male dominated fields were hit much harder than female dominated ones, so there is a phenomenon of unemployed men supported by working wives now.

The discussion focused mostly on statistics which showed that while newly unemployed women took on the bulk of childcare and housework, newly unemployed men rarely did. In fact, they said studies showed that households where men became unemployed and women worked saw almost no reduction in childcare costs. That was surprising to me. The refrain from the men was that they had to stay focused to look for jobs, whereas the (working) wife complained that she was essentially pulling a double shift. There was also discussion of SAHDs and whether women were just more critical when husbands take over the household. All good stuff. Given how fundies always harp on gender roles and working women, I feel this is a very relevant subject on Free Jinger.

Fundies like to stress the traditional gender roles and it's numerous benefits to society. Likewise, we at Free Jinger try hard to refute this idea. Mainstream society side more with us than with fundies on this topic. However, we still shy away from a complete turnaround on gender roles. It's ok for women to work but not too much. It's ok for men to cook and clean but not too much. I think this attitude makes it easier for unemployed women to transition to the role of the homemakers. It's not biology (as fundies always suggest), but social conditioning.

Society thinks nothing of a women who cooks, cleans and cares for the children. Some (like Mormons) even counsel women to focus on those roles. Even the most hard driven career women must be affected by these attitudes. Men, OTOH, are not expected to be homemakers. They get teased by friends and shunned by family for wanting or having to live off their wives' wages. Unemployed men are already facing a transition to home, but they also have to deal with the "shame" of doing "women's work". This is entering new territory. One where dad takes the kid out for play dates, does laundry and shops on Wednesday afternoons. I can see the average man showing reluctance in this new role out of embarrassment, which may explain some men's unwillingness to take on the bulk of homemaking even when it makes sense to do so.

I also believe men tie their self-esteem into their jobs more so than women. Women are told they can work or stay home. Men are rarely told they can be SAHDs (I've never met a single man who was raised with that menality). When men lose their jobs, I feel it's a larger psychological kick. For women, it means less money for their family but that they can still contribute to their families' wellbeing through good homemaking. For men, I think they are conditioned to think that the way to be a good husband/father is to be a provider. When they lose their jobs, the instinct is to find any way back to the provider status, while pushing back against the homemaker role.

This is just me trying to figure out the reasons for the different reactions of unemployed men and women. I definitely think it's new territory we are stepping into with the recent recession. For good or ill, women's work is no longer "pin money". Men need to realize that their contribution at home is no less important than when women stayed home. Women, perhaps, need to realize men can make competent caregivers and homemakers. Rather than see these switched up gender roles as contributing to the breakdown of family, I see as a way to strengthen it. Life is uncertain. How much better if we can "cross-train" each spouse to do each others' roles? Families would be that much more secure and adaptable if people were not stuck into their roles.

Anyway, I wonder if any FJingerites have any experience in this arena? Do you know families and friends who suffered unemployment and found themselves switching roles? Was it a "smooth" transition (or as smooth as one can get with unemployment)? Or was there some personal soul searching to adjust to the new dynamics?

[linnea27]

Smooth transition here. My husband was laid off when our first was just five months old. We live in Canada so I was on mat/parental leave, but we couldn't afford both of us to be off (mat leave is paid out at 55%) so I went back to work and he stayed home on parental leave for the rest of that year. He did wonderfully. When I went back to work when our second was a year, my husband took a few weeks vacation to help me and babe to get used to the idea of being apart, take him to daycare for an hour at a time to get him used to it, etc. He cooked, cleaned, changed diapers, the whole shebang.

He was teased by some of the older men at his male-dominated work, both for staying home when he was laid off instead of working in another city temporarily where he had enough seniority to hold a position (something common in his field, and something all the older workers did at some point or another) and for his lengthy parental leaves after our kids were born (two months the first time, four months the second time). He didn't care. But he was a bit of a trail blazer - he was the first one to do it, but since he started, all the new dads seem to be taking lengthy parental leaves now, too.

My husband was raised in a patriarchal fundie-lite home but did not internalize those beliefs. If anything his experience made him conscious of being an equal parent, as he always thought his dad treated his mother as a second class citizen and vowed to never treat his wife that way.

Edited for phone-induced typos and also to add that my husband and I both agree that if we could afford it, he would be a wonderful SAHD. But he makes more than double what I make so I don't think that is in the cards.

[church_of_dog]

My husband was raised in a patriarchal fundie-lite home but did not internalize those beliefs. If anything his experience made him conscious of being an equal parent, as he always thought his dad treated his mother as a second class citizen and vowed to never treat his wife that way.

I am really interested in the comparison between some of the former-fundies who post here or are represented here, such as your husband, and the older kids in the fundy families we read about, such as the Duggars, Maxwells, Arndts etc. You say your husband did not internalize the beliefs his family displayed to him -- do you think he would say he was aware that he didn't "toe the family line" by the time he was a teenager, or did he develop his independent views later?

And my main question is, would he think there are any external clues, any way for those of us on the outside, to know whether kids such as the adult Duggar children are truly partaking of the kool-aid or whether they are merely playing along until the time is right to make a break?

Would a kid who is thinking their own thoughts and questioning the fundy world be visibly unhappy? I know we jump on every eye-roll or sad-face we see and hope that's a sign the kids are waiting to jump ship, but I'm wondering what someone who actually experienced that would think.

[linnea27]

I am really interested in the comparison between some of the former-fundies who post here or are represented here, such as your husband, and the older kids in the fundy families we read about, such as the Duggars, Maxwells, Arndts etc. You say your husband did not internalize the beliefs his family displayed to him -- do you think he would say he was aware that he didn't "toe the family line" by the time he was a teenager, or did he develop his independent views later?

And my main question is, would he think there are any external clues, any way for those of us on the outside, to know whether kids such as the adult Duggar children are truly partaking of the kool-aid or whether they are merely playing along until the time is right to make a break?

Would a kid who is thinking their own thoughts and questioning the fundy world be visibly unhappy? I know we jump on every eye-roll or sad-face we see and hope that's a sign the kids are waiting to jump ship, but I'm wondering what someone who actually experienced that would think.

My husband said he knew from a young age- 11? 12?- that he didn't share his family's beliefs. He maintained the charade because he didn't feel he had a choice as his family was quick to cut all contact with family members who stepped out of line. He had a cousin who was kicked out of the house at a young age after she was caught with a boyfriend. He moved out at 17 and dropped the act then.

As far as would anyone have seen it from the outside- I doubt it. My husband has said that he was often seen as the "good kid" in the community and was always thought to be a good influence on other youth in the faith. My husband laughs to recall that now, as he figures he was actually the worst influence in the group (which really just translates into doing what many consider to be normal teenage stuff, such as experimenting with pot, cigarettes, drinking, sex, etc).

My husband naturally has a very easy-going nature and so he was able to roll with what he had to do to get by while looking forward to the life he felt he would be free to live as an adult. I don't think he would have ever presented as sad or depressed, but I think his personality played a big role in that. He had friends who shared his beliefs who were seen as troublemakers for speaking out, being sullen, etc. He gets a lot of flack from his family who never fail to remind him that he is failing in his role as spiritual leader of the home, but he is able to let it roll off his back, for the most part, and we see them only infrequently.

[Mama Mia]

I know quite a few men who stayed at home with the kids while the mom was the primary breadwinner, generally not long term, but I don't know many parents of either gender who stayed home long term.

I think it is encouraging that many commercials for cooking, baby care and cleaning products now feature men as the person using the product. I think this is a definite reflection of the recession and the very disproportionate impact it had on male workers.

[Miggy]

I stayed at home with child 1 & 2. Not long after child 3 was born I was offered a fantastic job. We had already decided we didn't want to use child care so MrMiggy left his job and I worked. He went back to work when she started school.

I think that coming from a family of all boys actually made it easier for MrMiggy as there were no gender roles in their house. Everybody was expected to help cook, clean, etc. I also made a conscious decision not to criticise anything he did to help. I watched too many of my friends complain about their "useless" husbands and I didn't want to be that sort of wife. (Example: There is no wrong way to hang clothes on the line. The fact I didn't have to do it makes it perfect!)

Our situation may be a little different because MrMiggy chose to be a SAHD rather than being unemployed but, however you look at it, he was brilliant. He and our daughter had some very special times over the years he was at home and they are still very close, closer than most daughters and dads I know.

[Jana814]

Glad your husband is so easy going. How did you feel when your husband told u about his family backround?

[Jana814]

My husband was raised in a patriarchal fundie-lite home but did not internalize those beliefs. If anything his experience made him conscious of being an equal parent, as he always thought his dad treated his mother as a second class citizen and vowed to never treat his wife that way.

Good for him!!! Sometimes when someone is raised that way whether they are men or women, they it is always like that.

[linnea27]

Glad your husband is so easy going. How did you feel when your husband told u about his family backround?

This was before my FJ days so I didn't know a lot about it and he didn't lay it on me all at once. It was something I learned over time. I remember being shocked a few times at things he said but by then I knew him well enough to know he wasn't like that. I think he purposely kept some things from me, probably out of fear I would judge him. I remember going to a wedding with him once- we must have been married ourselves at this point because I can't think of anyone in his family who got married while we were dating- and being totally shocked by the sermon on women knowing their place and following their husbands. My jaw was on the floor and I remember staring at my husband in shock, while he steadfastly avoided my gaze. Later he told me that he could feel my shock and didn't want to look at me as he thought if he did he would burst out laughing in the middle of the ceremony. He did apologize for not giving me a heads up, but he said by that point the religion was so far removed from his life he didn't really think about or remember what would be preached. Needless to say there was nothing in his behaviour that led me to ever feel that he thought I should be subservient to him.

[church_of_dog]

My husband said he knew from a young age- 11? 12?- that he didn't share his family's beliefs. He maintained the charade because he didn't feel he had a choice as his family was quick to cut all contact with family members who stepped out of line. He had a cousin who was kicked out of the house at a young age after she was caught with a boyfriend. He moved out at 17 and dropped the act then.

As far as would anyone have seen it from the outside- I doubt it. My husband has said that he was often seen as the "good kid" in the community and was always thought to be a good influence on other youth in the faith. My husband laughs to recall that now, as he figures he was actually the worst influence in the group (which really just translates into doing what many consider to be normal teenage stuff, such as experimenting with pot, cigarettes, drinking, sex, etc).

My husband naturally has a very easy-going nature and so he was able to roll with what he had to do to get by while looking forward to the life he felt he would be free to live as an adult. I don't think he would have ever presented as sad or depressed, but I think his personality played a big role in that. He had friends who shared his beliefs who were seen as troublemakers for speaking out, being sullen, etc. He gets a lot of flack from his family who never fail to remind him that he is failing in his role as spiritual leader of the home, but he is able to let it roll off his back, for the most part, and we see them only infrequently.

Thank you for sharing this!

[docmom]

We are not and haven't been in that situation but I think that if we were most of the difficulty with the transition would come from me! I do complain about doing the bulk of the childcare but I'm also really really bad at letting go and letting my husband do things. I also don't expect him to help particularly and I'm usually surprised if he offers. We were both on a schedule recently that had us working late. I was tearing my hair out about how to pick the kids up at 6 and my husband said, "Don't worry, I'll take care of it. I'll go in early and I'll get out in time". It honestly NEVER occurred to me to even ask him. He volunteered to take care of summer campst this year and although I HATE doing the paperwork, I had a really hard time not micromanaging his handling of it. Some of it comes from the belief common when I was a kid in the 70s that women could (and had to) do it all. It's good to hear others are finding things easier.

[MsSaylor]

I saw last night that A&E will be having a new show called Modern Dads. I wonder if it's going to address what we are discussing here. I will probably watch.