Toronto Public Health vs Jenny McCarthy

[SpeakNow]

My six year old has autism. And my 3 year old

still isn't talking. I don't believe vaccines caused the

autism, but I don't think they helped. They both regressed receiving the vaccines.

I have a 3 month old now and I refused her 2 month

vaccines. I can't be sure if its the vaccines or not

that's causing these issues, but I'm delaying them because so far, several of my kids aren't responding

well to them (we landed in the ER after my autistic sons

8 month round of shots - wasn't diagnosed them).

I don't find it easy to say of rather pick autism.

I can't pick either because they are both hard. Watching

your children regress is like watching a flame flicker

out. I Iove my kids, but the emotional heartbreak of

watching them lose what they had (speech,

playing with kids) has left me uterrly devestated some

days.

I loathe Jenny McCarthy with an unbridled passion

Unfortunately, regression is not uncommon in children with Autism. The regression is caused by Autism, not by vaccines.

[lipstickgoalie]

Unfortunately, regression is not uncommon in children with Autism. The regression is caused by Autism, not by vaccines.

AMEN

[Chicken bones]

My six year old has autism. And my 3 year old

still isn't talking. I don't believe vaccines caused the

autism, but I don't think they helped. They both regressed receiving the vaccines.

I have a 3 month old now and I refused her 2 month

vaccines. I can't be sure if its the vaccines or not

that's causing these issues, but I'm delaying them because so far, several of my kids aren't responding

well to them (we landed in the ER after my autistic sons

8 month round of shots - wasn't diagnosed them).

I don't find it easy to say of rather pick autism.

I can't pick either because they are both hard. Watching

your children regress is like watching a flame flicker

out. I Iove my kids, but the emotional heartbreak of

watching them lose what they had (speech,

playing with kids) has left me uterrly devestated some

days.

I loathe Jenny McCarthy with an unbridled passion

I have a close friend whose daughter has Rett's Syndrome. She regressed, losing her speak and many motor skills. Breaks my heart for them.

[ADoyle90815]

Unfortunately, regression is not uncommon in children with Autism. The regression is caused by Autism, not by vaccines.

This. It's something people who don't vaccinate due to paranoia sometimes find out their child regressed anyway.

[sukiha]

Quick delurk.

I'm autistic and the fact that Jenny McCarthy would rather children die of polio than turn out like me makes me feel like a giant shit on a stick.

[happy atheist]

Quick delurk.

I'm autistic and the fact that Jenny McCarthy would rather children die of polio than turn out like me makes me feel like a giant shit on a stick.

I assure you that it's Jenny McCarthy who is the giant shit, not you.

[Kailash]

Yeah I thought I saw somewhere that she now believes her son has something else and vaccines didn't cause it. Whatever. I can't stand celebrities who think they are fucking doctors influencing people with their crap.

I'm also an autism mama (interesting how much ASD is representing on fj). My son is only 3 so we are relatively knew to the game. I have always been staunchly pro vaccine, and knew all about the Andrew Wakefield fraud before my son was even born. He is fully vaccinated. I will admit to having many dark moments after realizing he had autism where I contemplated (and googled) everything I could think of that was ever put into his or my body that could have caused this. I began being haunted by every choice I made and just knew I did something to cause it. It didn't help that I was pregnant with my daughter during this time. I have mostly come to my senses and realized that it's probably genetics. Also that it doesn't really matter what caused it and that my guilt and fear were not helping my son and were getting in the way of bonding with my daughter. But I will admit that there is a lingering fear there. My daughters 2 month shots are coming up and im scared. Anyway my point is even if this stuff about vaccines is bullshit and I know it, the people out there in the media preaching it and writing articles plants the seed of doubt in my mind. And for many people that would be all it took to make the decision not to vaccine. And that has very dangerous consequences.

With regards to your daughter's 2 month shots- you can ask that they be delayed or given at different times. Don't be afraid to talk to the doctor about your specific fears.

[Kailash]

I assure you that it's Jenny McCarthy who is the giant shit, not you.

I agree.

[stonefruit]

I agree.

Absolutely. I have no trouble saying that Jenny McCarthy is a horrible human being.

[tigerchild]

I have heard quite a few doctors say that they do think that there are some (very few) children with a predisposition to neurological disorders that may be triggered by vaccination. However, that's with the caveat that they would also probably be triggered by other immune events as well.

The 2nd Hep B shot put me in the hospital when I was in my 20s, due to a severe reaction to it (luckily I'm woozy around needles, so I delayed leaving the clinic for a bit when I started to swell up and then had a seizure. Because of that, we put all of our kids on a delayed vax schedule and declined the hep b until right before school so that it could be given in isolation. Luckily none of my kids had any kind of reactions, and they are fully vaccinated. I doubt they would have had a reaction given the normal schedule, but we decided that since it would not be harmful to anyone (including the public) to go on a slightly staggered schedule for individual vaccines (and the Hep B one was more protective long term for them, rather than presenting a very clear public health risk if we delayed, like DTaP), it's what we decided to do, and I think that's perfectly fine (and so did every single one of our pediatricians). It also helped us financially, as until 2 years ago we had major medical only and therefore paid out of pocket for all preventative care. I believe we paid at least $1k per kid, and we had 3 under 2 so lots of little kids doing through the vaccine heavy years, including twins, for vaccines alone as we did not qualify for any assistance.

There's nothing wrong with going on a different vax schedule. There's a pretty large window on most vaccines, they're set up the way they are largely for convenience. So I don't like shaming/scare tactics put on people who choose to still vaccinate within the acceptable window but for whatever reason choose to stagger things.

[fakepigtails73]

That tool has done so much damage with her anti-vaccine bullshit. Anti-vaccine charlatanism is one of my beserk buttons.

10 likes for this!! :wink-penguin:

Because the # of children that are not vaccinated is getting bigger every year, I wouldn't be suprised if diseases that we seldom see in North America and Western Europe will (sadly) make a comeback. Rubella and polio are two that come to mind, and I'm certain that there are others that I can't name. One of my friends work in the administrative offices of a big school board here and she told me that the # of parents calling the offices every year to enquire about how to get an exemption to the mandatory vaccines requirements they have is growing every year.

I find that most of these ant-vax parents are relying too much on herd immunity...Which is so selfish in itself, relying on vaccinated kids's immunity so that non-vax. kid will, by virtue of being in daily contact with them, be safe. I just don't get it.

I admit that I used to be weary of the mercury additives and timesoral (sp?) in vaccines that were rumoured to be a potential cause of spectrum disorders, so then I decided to really do some research. When I took away articles and speeches from people with pseudo-science backgrounds... Not much supporting Jenny M.'s theories were left:popcorn2:

I hope that while on The View she'll stay quiet with her pseudo-science BS.

[CelticGoddess]

Jenny McCarthy has done more damage to autism research than, well, Andrew Wakefield. She also likes to blame the parents of autistic children, saying if they hadn't vaccinated, it never would have happened. BULL effing shit. (sorry, I get very stabby about this issue). :angry-cussing: Jenny is nothing but a sanctimonious piece of garbage. My son, 12, is autistic, and I wouldn't trade him for the world. And I know I did NOTHING to cause his autism.

Ms. McCarthy has claimed she "cured" her sons autism through diet. (I have heard GAPS, Feingold and one other diet). I call bullshit on that too. Either he wasn't autistic or he is still is and she is in massive amounts of denial. She goes around, convincing vulnerable parents that they should follow her plan, and it will work. It's magic. And then, when it doesn't work, she blames the parents. :pull-hair: Of course, in the mean time, the parents aren't getting their children early interventions because "The diet will work".

And don't even get me started on the vaccines. There are valid reasons to not vaccinate. The supposed autism/ vaccine link is NOT one of them.

I believe in Karma, and I believe in reincarnation, and I believe that Ms. McCarthy (who is also a ) will get hers one day. I hope!

BTW: I think we need a stabby smilie!

[Blahblah]

Someone mentioned up thread that vaccines cost a significant amount of money. In Aus all the standard vaccines are free, not means-tested, available to everyone. I didn't realize it was different in the US?

[paganhomeschooler]

Someone mentioned up thread that vaccines cost a significant amount of money. In Aus all the standard vaccines are free, not means-tested, available to everyone. I didn't realize it was different in the US?

Vaccines are very expensive here. Over the last decade they've gone up, too. I usually take my kids to the Health Dept. for their shots. It used to be free. Then it was $10 for all the shots received for that day, then up to $20. I just took my youngest in to get his K shots last month, and it was $20/shot that time or "whatever you could pay". He was supposed to get, I think, 5 shots. He ended up with 3. We have chosen to forgo a couple of shots, but not for autism scare reasons. We're holding off on hep A and HPV at the moment for all the kids because they just haven't been around long enough for us to feel safe shooting them into our kids. If our kids choose to get them when they are big enough to make an educated decision, we will support them, though. The hep A and a 2nd varicella is what we opted out of for the little guy this time. He did have his MMR, DtaP, and polio boosters. We also never did the rotavirus because our kids don't go to daycare or nursery school.

Oh, and those prices were health department/public health fees. The actual vaccines themselves, full cost, run a couple of hundred dollars a piece. I do remember that from insurance billing papers. One of them was over $300.

[sacrilicious]

Everything having to do with healthcare in the US costs money.

[Coconut Flan]

Vaccines are still no charge as long as they're done at a office visit for us.

[DarkAnts]

Everything having to do with healthcare in the US costs money.

Many US States have free vaccination programs for children. There are also public health clinics that have low cost vaccines for adults. You just have to know where to go.

[meda]

In the US, whooping cough has come back to such an extent because of this moron and her followers, (my area in particular is a pocketbof earthy crunchy non vax types) that my OB/Gyn told me the CDC now recommends women in their third trimester get a TDAP booster so that the new born has some possible immunity from the mother. There has been a spike in infant deaths in the past 10 years from whooping cough among those too young to vaccinate because people refuse to get TDAP for their older children and ruin the herd immunity.

I thought when my husband and I got the booster before before we conceived we did enough. Apparently not, I had to get it again so my impending kid can have a fighting chance against these idiots. :angry-banghead:

[DifferentGurl]

Ms. McCarthy has claimed she "cured" her sons autism through diet. (I have heard GAPS, Feingold and one other diet). I call bullshit on that too. Either he wasn't autistic or he is still is and she is in massive amounts of denial. She goes around, convincing vulnerable parents that they should follow her plan, and it will work. It's magic. And then, when it doesn't work, she blames the parents. :pull-hair: Of course, in the mean time, the parents aren't getting their children early interventions because "The diet will work".

When I was getting diagnosed, I would act like I was normal ( whatever that means ) even though everyone in my family knew I was anything but. People with autism can learn how to pretend to be "normal". Maybe that's what her son is doing. Just wait until the teenage years. When I hit those years, I became more anxious. Maybe her son will be like that too and start to act more autistic.

Also, therapy is the best way of helping autistic kids to be more high-functioning. Diets might help, but talk to a doctor first, not an a-list celebrity like McCarthy. Definitely don't try the chelation therapy. It's not worth the hassle. Natural pills like melatonin and St.John's wart work well. That's all I can say.

My parents didn't put me on one of those "diets" and I turned out just fine, thank you very much.

[crazyforkate]

With regards to your daughter's 2 month shots- you can ask that they be delayed or given at different times. Don't be afraid to talk to the doctor about your specific fears.

Not to mention that if your doctor has any concerns about your child's health and whether she can take vaccines, he or she will definitely bring that up with you. There's absolutely no harm in discussing the risks involved.

[Just_Jane]

My dad had polio as a child and thankfully it was only a mild case. He remembers going for a walk with his mom and he just fell down. she thought at first he was playing around as 5 year olds tend to do but that was not the case. Polio was such a fear that when the vaccine was first developed thousands of parents enrolled their children in the field trials not knowing if their child would get the vaccine, the placebo, or nothing at all. I'm not sure if parents would do that today. It's so hard to say because we have lost the collective memory of these diseases. Many people having and raising children have not had any first hand or even second hand knowledge of these diseases so I guess they don't appear that scary.

anyway back to the topic of Jenny McCarthy. her whole antivaccine and curing her child of autism just irritates me. It comes off as some how holier than thou.

[dairyfreelife]

Vaccines are very expensive here. Over the last decade they've gone up, too. I usually take my kids to the Health Dept. for their shots. It used to be free. Then it was $10 for all the shots received for that day, then up to $20. I just took my youngest in to get his K shots last month, and it was $20/shot that time or "whatever you could pay". He was supposed to get, I think, 5 shots. He ended up with 3. We have chosen to forgo a couple of shots, but not for autism scare reasons. We're holding off on hep A and HPV at the moment for all the kids because they just haven't been around long enough for us to feel safe shooting them into our kids. If our kids choose to get them when they are big enough to make an educated decision, we will support them, though. The hep A and a 2nd varicella is what we opted out of for the little guy this time. He did have his MMR, DtaP, and polio boosters. We also never did the rotavirus because our kids don't go to daycare or nursery school.

Oh, and those prices were health department/public health fees. The actual vaccines themselves, full cost, run a couple of hundred dollars a piece. I do remember that from insurance billing papers. One of them was over $300.

Hep A is not likely to be a concern unless they use IV drugs, travel to other countries, live in a nursing home or rehab or work in the health care or sewage industry. It's possible that it can be contracted in the food industry, but that's not common thankfully.

[laura oz]

In the US, whooping cough has come back to such an extent because of this moron and her followers, (my area in particular is a pocketbof earthy crunchy non vax types) that my OB/Gyn told me the CDC now recommends women in their third trimester get a TDAP booster so that the new born has some possible immunity from the mother. There has been a spike in infant deaths in the past 10 years from whooping cough among those too young to vaccinate because people refuse to get TDAP for their older children and ruin the herd immunity.

I thought when my husband and I got the booster before before we conceived we did enough. Apparently not, I had to get it again so my impending kid can have a fighting chance against these idiots. :angry-banghead:

I'd like to second the earlier motion that we have a stabby smilie. I hate what that woman does with every fiber of my being. I was a paranoid mess after talking with the doctor and vaxing my oldest. I kept looking for any signs/symptoms, and am convinced I started getting my much beloved ulcer then. Hate her. Hate her. Hate her.

[tigerchild]

Many US States have free vaccination programs for children. There are also public health clinics that have low cost vaccines for adults. You just have to know where to go.

Many US States also have requirements for those vaccines to be free or subsidized. I knew where to look, we did not qualify (while we have been chronically underinsured due to having to self-purchase insurance for the last 15 years, our income is pretty good, even though due to contracts and stuff it's delayed/irregular because of the industry my husband is in).

It's not just a matter of knowing where to go. A lot of people do not qualify, esp. with states eviscerating who they can serve. You can know where to go, and have it be more expensive in terms of transportation, ect. Many insurance companies do offer preventative care as part of the package for young children, so I believe most people *thankfully* have no clue how expensive those vaccines (and gazillions of well child visits) are. Comments like the above really kind of irritate me. It's just not that simple, for a lot of people. I'm not stupid, uneducated, or unaware. Free/low cost vaccines were not an option for our family, and it wasn't because of my ignorance. And it was easy (because we are not living at the povery level) to just incorporate an appropriate yet more sparse vax schedule into the office visits that we were already paying for out of pocket as a way of cost management while still protecting both community and child. A lot of people who are uninsured for preventative care do not have that luxury (with the schedule of office visits for infants, that is enormously expensive. But cost was a factor for us, even though we are not poor.

We are saving up for the HPV vax for all three kids. That is one fucking expensive series. Getting lectures and sighs from doctors when we delay as we're saving up because they're suspicious that we're some kind of conservative freaks is tiresome.

And yeah, getting the 3rd trimester booster sucks. Though DTaP isn't that horrible cost wise, even though it irks me that we just paid for me to have one like 3 months ago. Unfortunately I know people in my community who are on board with the anti-vax brigade, so it's a real danger; can't wait to have them freak out at me when I avoid them for awhile after the baby is born, too. Oh well, at least in January when prexisiting conditions are eliminated, the rest of my prenatal care will be covered from then on out, so paying for a vax will be offset like whoa for not paying out of pocket for every office visit and u/s. :P

[BravaAmica]

Someone mentioned up thread that vaccines cost a significant amount of money. In Aus all the standard vaccines are free, not means-tested, available to everyone. I didn't realize it was different in the US?

Vaccines are free for children now, thanks to Obamacare. You may have to pay to have a nurse give the shot, though.