Why Don't Fundies Learn From The World Around Them?

[debrand]

Last night, my burgundy haired, dark clothes wearing, sometimes sharply sarcastic daughter asked my friend and I if she could get us some coffee. She told us not to get up, she'd bring us our cups. There was no reason for her to do this and we hadn't even asked. She left the room after bringing us the coffee so she didn't even stay to chat. She was just being nice.

It made me wonder of all the times that I've had to change my perceptions and opinion based on experiences that I've had. My daughter would not fit a fundie ideal of daughterhood and yet, she decided to wait on us just because. If I had to the image of a perfect girl, wearing dresses and being forever innocent, a young woman like my daughter would probably destroy my perceptions.

I guess I am curious how fundies remain blind to so much life when the world around them gives them so much information that counters their narrow viewpoints.

[Mary C Doates]

Last night, my burgundy haired, dark clothes wearing, sometimes sharply sarcastic daughter asked my friend and I if she could get us some coffee. She told us not to get up, she'd bring us our cups. There was no reason for her to do this and we hadn't even asked. She left the room after bringing us the coffee so she didn't even stay to chat. She was just being nice.

It made me wonder of all the times that I've had to change my perceptions and opinion based on experiences that I've had. My daughter would not fit a fundie ideal of daughterhood and yet, she decided to wait on us just because. If I had to the image of a perfect girl, wearing dresses and being forever innocent, a young woman like my daughter would probably destroy my perceptions.

I guess I am curious how fundies remain blind to so much life when the world around them gives them so much information that counters their narrow viewpoints.

I think many fundies have structured their lives so that they have limited contact with people who do not share their beliefs. Children in particular may have had very little unsupervised interaction with others outside of their like-minded social circles, and any interactions they may have had are interpreted by their parents or other adults (for example, calling "outsiders" ignorant, unsaved or evil).

"Fundies" are likely to view the world through the prism of their own belief system. It's easier to ignore or explain away behaviours that don't align with their own. If you believe that you are "right" (because you are convinced God says you are), non-believers are either non-beings, or something to avoid like a contagious disease.

[GeoBQn]

Fundies are deeply invested in the belief that their way is the right way. They have had to make sacrifices for the sake of their beliefs--downsizing their lifestyle, giving up satisfying careers, subjecting the body to the ravages of multiple pregnancies, giving their kids subpar educations. If they allowed themselves one moment of realizing that someone from the outside world might be right about something, then their whole belief system could come crashing down and they would feel immense guilt as they realize that they harmed themselves and their families over something that wasn't true. The only way to avoid that is to make sure that they are absolutely rigid in their reactions to the outside world.

[LeatherCouch]

I've pondered the same thing. My youngest daughter wears dark, punky clothes, tall, black Doc Martin boots, has multiple piercings and has a purple (sometimes blue, or pink, or blonde or jet black or multi-colored) Mohawk. Knitting, reading, cooking and all things Star Wars are her hobbies. It really stretches my evangelical-with-ATI-leanings raising to see her sitting and knitting or cuddling with her baby brother who adores her. She's caring and loving and very helpful, not just at home, but in general. She's the opposite of the angry, moody rebel that I was raised to think she should be based on her appearance. She's pretty fantastic :)

[bookiewookie]

Fundies are deeply invested in the belief that their way is the right way. They have had to make sacrifices for the sake of their beliefs--downsizing their lifestyle, giving up satisfying careers, subjecting the body to the ravages of multiple pregnancies, giving their kids subpar educations. If they allowed themselves one moment of realizing that someone from the outside world might be right about something, then their whole belief system could come crashing down and they would feel immense guilt as they realize that they harmed themselves and their families over something that wasn't true. The only way to avoid that is to make sure that they are absolutely rigid in their reactions to the outside world.

This. One of my friends was raised fundie, but has since left her church community and its' stringent belief system. She's enormously successful (and thoughtful, talented, smart, and kind) and most parents would be proud to have her as a daughter, but her parents refuse to acknowledge her success. Her personal theory is that if her parents admit to themselves, even for a minute, that she's living an awesome and wonderful life outside of their church, then everything they believe in is a lie and that they've ruined the rest of their kids' childhoods for nothing.

[AnywhereButHere]

I have an aunt. She's not fundie, not religious in any way actually, but the situation is similar. I call her the queen of the "Except Fors". Every (insert racial, ethnic, political, religious sexual orientation here) is (insert stereotype here), EXCEPT FOR, her neighbor/hairdresser/girl at the coffee shop/random person on bus/etc... Somehow, in her 90 some odd years, she has never been able to grasp the concept that she has not yet met one person who embodies the stereotype in her head and in fact, has met, liked and befriended all of them. SMH.

On another level though, I think those deep into the fundie mindset are afraid to embrace anything outside of their narrow views as they'd then have to admit on some level that their views are wrong, and then where does that leave them. Their whole world gets blown to bits. Not a bad result in my mind, but for them, horrible.

[Mary C Doates]

If you've been taught to think and behave in a certain way because God says so, and because you'll burn in hell if you veer from that path, I expect unfamiliar people, ideas, settings and experiences would be very threatening. They could be interpreted as some kind of "test" from God to see how faithful the person is. The person can either overtly challenge what they feel is "wrong" (hanging out tracts, trying to convert non-believers, pointing out what they believe is wrong, saying they'll "pray for you"), or just ignore whatever it is they disagree with. Cognitive dissonance, maybe--something is so far removed fom their typical experience that they can't interpret it, to the point that it doesn't intellectually or emotionally register with them.

[jaelh]

Because we always see the worst in those people who "aren't like us".

Oh look, all [conservatives/liberals/fundies/non-Christians/Muslims] act in this way, and look! here is self selecting evidence that supports my perspective.

there is plenty of evidence that suggests "our" women are loose (hell; by the standards of most other cultures of earth, we are frightfully loose). Want to see images of Islamic terrorists? easy! What about fundamentalist Christians with stay at home daughters and non-science education? We see that every day.

And agree with what anythingbutheresaid, "if they're afraid they admit being wrong on one thing, then it's all wrong". They're sold a package deal. If you don't accept 7 day creation you're GOING TO HELL; etc.. Faith structures that permit ambiguity tend to loose more people, but for those that remain, not require believers to accept inanities or be non-believers.

But yeah. Mainly, it's not a fundie thing, debrand. Pretty much every group on earth does it. We see what confirms our biases. Esp when it's what you're fed constantly.

[fundiefan]

The don't learn because they are too scared. It's far easier to say the 'world' is evil and ignore it at all costs than to put forth effort to live and learn from it and those in it.

[ari_belle]

I have an aunt. She's not fundie, not religious in any way actually, but the situation is similar. I call her the queen of the "Except Fors". Every (insert racial, ethnic, political, religious sexual orientation here) is (insert stereotype here), EXCEPT FOR, her neighbor/hairdresser/girl at the coffee shop/random person on bus/etc... Somehow, in her 90 some odd years, she has never been able to grasp the concept that she has not yet met one person who embodies the stereotype in her head and in fact, has met, liked and befriended all of them. SMH.

my mother is just like this. the amount of work it took me once I left my parents' house to overcome all of the stereotypes I'd been taught...well, it was pretty unbearable. especially because I KNEW that they were all bullshit, but it was so engrained in my subconscious that I found myself thinking them without wanting to.

[Miggy]

My son had green hair when Erin Bates made her comment about not wanting to sit next to someone with green hair at college. I remember looking at my son, who had just been baptised, who attended church four nights a week and was the leader of his school Christian group, and feeling very sorry for Erin.

Strange that fundies never teach the "don't judge people by appearance" message.

[Mrs Ms]

Don't most Fundies also really believe in the whole "wolf-in-sheeps-clothing" thing. So even if they do see someone wearing "defrauding" clothes or colorful hair doing something nice, they just get to think "my faith is being tested".

[Tangy Bee]

What I don't get, is when smart fundies like Voddie Baucom insist that children should be home schooled for biblical reasons. I've heard him say public schools are like sending kids off to prison. Well...this is where he got his early education. Does he not realize that "some"parents are not fit or capable of teaching their kids? How will a child of a drug addict get an education if there are no schools? What about parents with intellectual disabilities? What about low income, single parents? He wants things done his way according to his biblical beliefs. But the reality is...this will NEVER happen.

[JesusFightClub]

What I don't get, is when smart fundies like Voddie Baucom insist that children should be home schooled for biblical reasons. I've heard him say public schools are like sending kids off to prison. Well...this is where he got his early education. Does he not realize that "some"parents are not fit or capable of teaching their kids? How will a child of a drug addict get an education if there are no schools? What about parents with intellectual disabilities? What about low income, single parents? He wants things done his way according to his biblical beliefs. But the reality is...this will NEVER happen.

Yeah. I always want to ask him how he thinks my nieces should be schooled. They're living with their dad because their mum isn't around any more (she's dead). Their dad is a shift worker on a low wage and they live in a council house on a council estate. The option of them being homeschooled is non-existent.

I think if my brother did teach them it would be great. He is a very smart bloke, smarter than me by a long way. But he can't, because he has to work. This is what schools and nurseries are for - homeschooling is a luxury for the wealthier people of an insanely wealthy country.

[latraviata]

My son had green hair when Erin Bates made her comment about not wanting to sit next to someone with green hair at college. I remember looking at my son, who had just been baptised, who attended church four nights a week and was the leader of his school Christian group, and feeling very sorry for Erin.

Strange that fundies never teach the "don't judge people by appearance" message.

Right, let me tell you that I'd rather have a son with green hair than a daughter with Erin's hair.

The green and burgundy coloured hair children are genuinely nice because they want to. The fundie children are nice because they have to.

Obviously the coloured hair children had an upbringing in a nice balanced family with friendly and respectful interaction and plenty of room to develop their unique personality and autonomy. The fundie children have been brainwashed into submission by the biblical rules and trained like dogs from the day they were born.

[Miggy]

Last night, my burgundy haired, dark clothes wearing, sometimes sharply sarcastic daughter asked my friend and I if she could get us some coffee. She told us not to get up, she'd bring us our cups. There was no reason for her to do this and we hadn't even asked. She left the room after bringing us the coffee so she didn't even stay to chat. She was just being nice.

I guess I am curious how fundies remain blind to so much life when the world around them gives them so much information that counters their narrow viewpoints.

Right, let me tell you that I'd rather have a son with green hair than a daughter with Erin's hair.

The green and burgundy coloured hair children are genuinely nice because they want to. The fundie children are nice because they have to.

THe bolded are something fundies really do miss. My kids do nice things all the time because they are, well ... nice. They don't do things to get rewards or to be noticed. My eldest, who is 18, works at a fundraising bbq once a month for a charity group that helps low income kids. Nobody at his school knows he does it. Nobody at our church knows he does it. He just does it.

ATI/IBLP says you have to earn grace, so you feel like anything they do in terms of "serving" is actually about them earning points with God. I get the same vibe from my fundy-in-laws; they don't help because they want to be nice, they help because it is what you are suppose to do or because it will get you in God's good books. Ugh.

[latraviata]

THe bolded are something fundies really do miss. My kids do nice things all the time because they are, well ... nice. They don't do things to get rewards or to be noticed. My eldest, who is 18, works at a fundraising bbq once a month for a charity group that helps low income kids. Nobody at his school knows he does it. Nobody at our church knows he does it. He just does it.

ATI/IBLP says you have to earn grace, so you feel like anything they do in terms of "serving" is actually about them earning points with God. I get the same vibe from my fundy-in-laws; they don't help because they want to be nice, they help because it is what you are suppose to do or because it will get you in God's good books. Ugh.

My children are nice and they have no god neither church in their lives, they are atheists.

[Miggy]

Please don't think I was implying only Christians are good. I have friends who are Hindi and Muslim who are very kind, generous loving people. I don't actually have any atheist friends but I do have atheist colleagues who are wonderful people; nice, hard working, caring and everything else. I also know Christians who are ... Not sure how to describe them or that I would want to use that sort of language.

I try to judge people by what I see them do. My fundy-in-laws judge people by what they hear them preach.

[latraviata]

Please don't think I was implying only Christians are good. I have friends who are Hindi and Muslim who are very kind, generous loving people. I don't actually have any atheist friends but I do have atheist colleagues who are wonderful people; nice, hard working, caring and everything else. I also know Christians who are ... Not sure how to describe them or that I would want to use that sort of language.

I try to judge people by what I see them do. My fundy-in-laws judge people by what they hear them preach.

No Miggy I didn't think that, it was more or less addressed to the fundie parents.