Fundieism may be a mental illness.

[Lillybee]

A neuroscientist says that Fundieism may be a treatable mental illness.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/30/l ... -be-cured/

[itaintmebabe]

Yes! I've thought this for years.

I mean, when you have friends inside your head, people say you're mentally ill.

So when you have someone else's friends inside your head, and other people have those same friends in their head too, and a whole churchfull of people have the same friends in their head...isn't that a sign of mass hysteria or mass mental illness?

[louisa05]

I have long thought that fundies have arrested development. They are stuck in the concrete operational stage of cognitive development. They can use some logic but it is limited to concrete objects--thus the inability to interpret the Bible as anything other than completely literal. Abstract and hypothetical thinking is beyond them and behavior and problem solving is generally governed by a set of rules. The normal age for this is middle to upper elementary grades--7 to 11 years old. Think about how kids that age are very fixated on rules of games and play.

[tuckerphez]

I always thought mental illness made people more vulnerable to cults and fundamentalism...

It feels like a chicken or the egg scenario - are you fundie because you have problems or do you have problems because you're fundie?

[dairyfreelife]

I don't think it is. Anyone can get sucked into a cult. While some people can have anxiety or depression or other mental illness that makes them easily prey for cults since it will give them a purpose, all it takes is a vulnerable time in one's life to find themselves suckered.

I was a fundamentalist before and no, it was not a form of mental illness. I was vulnerable and wanted to be the best Christian I could be and fundamentalist Christianity slowly got absorbed since it had the "perfect" way to get at my anxiety issues already with being away from others and keeping children home and more. But it was a trap. I was not mentally ill for my beliefs; I just got sucked into a cult. Plenty of others who believe similar do not have the same mental illnesses or any at all. It just appealed to them at one point for some reason and it spiraled from there. That's what cults do.

Just because someone has a personality or mental illness that makes them more susceptible to becoming extremists or ending up in abusive situations doesn't make the issue itself a mental illness.

And being an arrogant asshole isn't a mental illness and many of the people discussed here are just that.

I also find it a little offensive that I had "arrested development" when I became a fundamentalist. I am a rather logical person and am not stupid at all. I did not have the mind of an 8yo when I was one. I'm not okay with the idea that logical people never fall into a cult. Anyone who has any knowledge of how cults operate can tell you that that is an arrogant and naive view to have.

[Arete]

You know, I have met a few religious fanatics. Not only do they keep the rules, but they seek out spiritual advisors that heap even more rules on them that are not a part of the mainstream faith. While one of them has definitely battled depression, the rest are just weaklings. Straight up, they don't want to take resposibility for their choices. They don't want choices PERIOD. They want to be told what to do and how to approach life by some kind of expert or expert system. They revel in the instructions and carrying them out.

Sad as it is, not everyone chooses freedom.

Edit to add- I also know a few political fanatics, and they display the exact behaviors of some of the worst religious fanatics.

[Freyacat]

I always thought mental illness made people more vulnerable to cults and fundamentalism...

It feels like a chicken or the egg scenario - are you fundie because you have problems or do you have problems because you're fundie?

In a similar vein - fundie kids who go on to college are more likely to leave the church. That's also a chicken and egg scenario. Does college teach critical thinking skills that lead the kids to question the wackadoodle beliefs they grew up with? Or do some kids have naturally inquisitive and questioning personalities that lead them to question fundie-ism and also lead them to pursue more education?

[ADoyle90815]

In a similar vein - fundie kids who go on to college are more likely to leave the church. That's also a chicken and egg scenario. Does college teach critical thinking skills that lead the kids to question the wackadoodle beliefs they grew up with? Or do some kids have naturally inquisitive and questioning personalities that lead them to question fundie-ism and also lead them to pursue more education?

I agree with this, especially if a fundie kid goes to a state university or other secular college, since there's less restrictions on them than there are at religious universities. One other thing with secular universities is that they're far more diverse, so fundie kids are exposed to different ideas which might get them to question their wackadoodle beliefs.

[fundyfunland]

I think some people with certain mental illnesses are more prone to joining fundamentalist sects. I've had a lot of patients on my unit (in-patient mental health) who are, as psychs term "religiously pre-occupied," and i agree with that. These patients though, seem to have delusional disorders (ie. God himself told me to do this, etc) and don't fit well into a fundamentalist community, but their pre-occupation with religion is certainly fundamentalist variety.

Other patients I've found, who've come back to our unit numerous times, and have become more fundamentalist are those with OCD traits. They tend to go head first into haredi Judaism or Catholism (taken to extreme). Seems like these religions appeal to them maybe b/c of the rituals.

Others may have major depressive episodes, and are seeking some stability and a way to feel better, more included, something that gives their life purpose. They may be easy targets for fundie cults, and then just, ,sadly, get sucked more and more in to the cult/fundamentalist religion.

I could see how a man with Narcissistic Personality Disorder may be attracted to a patriachal cult.

ETA that I don't think Fundamentalism is a form of mental illness.

[AVENues]

May...be?!

[2xx1xy1JD]

I think some people with certain mental illnesses are more prone to joining fundamentalist sects. I've had a lot of patients on my unit (in-patient mental health) who are, as psychs term "religiously pre-occupied," and i agree with that. These patients though, seem to have delusional disorders (ie. God himself told me to do this, etc) and don't fit well into a fundamentalist community, but their pre-occupation with religion is certainly fundamentalist variety.

Other patients I've found, who've come back to our unit numerous times, and have become more fundamentalist are those with OCD traits. They tend to go head first into haredi Judaism or Catholism (taken to extreme). Seems like these religions appeal to them maybe b/c of the rituals.

Others may have major depressive episodes, and are seeking some stability and a way to feel better, more included, something that gives their life purpose. They may be easy targets for fundie cults, and then just, ,sadly, get sucked more and more in to the cult/fundamentalist religion.

I could see how a man with Narcissistic Personality Disorder may be attracted to a patriachal cult.

ETA that I don't think Fundamentalism is a form of mental illness.

That's been my experience as well.

I don't see fundamentalism as a mental illness per se - but I've met who were attracted to it who were mentally ill.

As well as the factors mentioned above, part of the attraction is that fundies are often more open to "lost sheep". They don't get scared off by someone acting weird and talking about God, and if they make a "lost sheep" one of their pet projects, they can provide a fair bit of assistance. If you reach out to folks who are homeless, or dealing with addiction, or who are lonely, or who are in jail, or who are otherwise struggling, you will attract more than the average number of folks with mental health issues. Once upon a time, I was involved in a case where a mom with schizophrenia had been taken under the wing of a religious community. The practical assistance they provided was quite lovely, but they also didn't pick up on her symptoms because God talk felt so normal to them.

It took me quite a while to shake my fundie = crazy assumption. It's just a function of where I live, what I do and who I know - we simply don't have many Christian fundies in my city, and they weren't really a part of my social circle. OTOH, I dealt with a lot of folks with mental illness through my work.

[bpobst]

I am of the opinion that religion/fundamentalism is not necessarily a form of mental illness. I think that as people have different personalities and difficulties in life, there are a myriad number of reasons for turning to a religion and then choosing (or being coerced) to extend those beliefs to a point of extremism. I think some people are searching for something missing in their lives, others may be at a very vulnerable point and are either recruited or turn to it on their own, some people that have mental illness may turn to religion in order to cope with their difficulties or to try to gather a type of support system when they have nothing else, etc. Just as with the human species as a whole, there are so many individual differences among us all that it makes sense to me that there is no blanket explanation for something as complex as religion.

Once the fundies have their claws in you though, I think it is exceedingly difficult to escape. Those cults work quickly and systematically for a reason.

[houseworksucks]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/3 ... 65896.html

Not broken because they won't care.

[roddma]

There's already a thread on this

[fundyfunland]

Here's the link to the thread:

http://freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=17664

[roddma]

WHile it may not be a mental illness, extreme reglious tend to attract certain personalities IMO. I think those who get sucked cults want to do what's best for them and their families. It's all about wanting to create a utopia society. Who wouldnt' want a world free from crime, drugs, etc? Instead, they end up living in paranoia and fear of the real world.

[Burris]

I also know a few political fanatics, and they display the exact behaviors of some of the worst religious fanatics.

Uhggg. Political fanaticism can be every bit as demanding and dangerous as religious fanaticism. This is one reason why I don't quite buy that religious extremism is itself a mental illness (and therefore somehow different from all the other forms of extremism one can find). I do think, however, that extremists may be more prone to mental illness - maybe from prolonged exposure to a fanatical sub-culture and the cognitive dissonance between believing your superiors or believing what your own senses tell you.

I also think pretty much anyone, given the right circumstances, could get sucked into something like that whether the ideology they follow is religious or not. The idea they're really just over-grown eight-year-olds is kind of insulting, actually, and more than a little bit naive.

[Arete]

I've met enough bright and articulate religious and political fanatics to know the idea that people get into fanaticism because they are stupid or in some arrested stage of development is just wrong.

Some of it is personality, some of it is particular vulnerability, some of it may have to do with mental illness. It may make some people feel better to think that all fanatics have the IQ of a hamburger, but it is not backed up in real life cases.

[hellbound]

You know, I have met a few religious fanatics. Not only do they keep the rules, but they seek out spiritual advisors that heap even more rules on them that are not a part of the mainstream faith. While one of them has definitely battled depression, the rest are just weaklings. Straight up, they don't want to take resposibility for their choices. They don't want choices PERIOD. They want to be told what to do and how to approach life by some kind of expert or expert system. They revel in the instructions and carrying them out.

Sad as it is, not everyone chooses freedom.

Edit to add- I also know a few political fanatics, and they display the exact behaviors of some of the worst religious fanatics.

All of the very religious people I know (including my mother) are exactly like this. They want an authority figure to tell them exactly what to do and believe that following the rules will lead to a perfect life, although that certainly hasn't happened for any of them.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

I think the "arrested development" shows up more in the second generation - the ones who grow up fundie. They are carefully molded to behave and think a certain way. Whereas their parents have a whole different set of reasons for doing what they do.

My fundie phase was about 50% mental health issues (at least at first, I found the rules to be really calming for my anxiety) and 50% being a 19-year-old desperate for a place to fit in. YMMV.

[debrand]

I think that there is a variety of issues that suck people into cults or fundamentalism. I've noticed that a lot of fundie women who snark on have-like me- bad relationships with their mom. Perhaps the idea of a loving but strict father is appealing?

Because I had an unstable childhood, I sought out stability for my kids. Wanting to love and obey god fully led me to fundamentalism. There is apparently some part of my makeup that likes clear cut rules. It embarrass me to admit that.

For those of us who escaped it, a better question might be why we were able to eventually realize we were wrong and others can't. I don't know the answer to that.

[bananacat]

I'm almost certain that the leaders of cults have some kind of delusional or narcissistic mental illness, but I don't think the followers have mental illnesses at a rate higher than the general population. It's easy to fall for cults because of the way our psychology works, and it's unfortunate but not actually a disorder.

I have OCD so I know a lot about it, and plenty of people with OCD have a symptom called religiosity, where they are very focused on religious rituals. I had a touch of it as a child in that I had to say nightly prayers in a certain, but I don't have that symptom now and I'm and atheist. People who suffer from religiosity can be more attracted to religions that are ritualistic, like Catholicism, but I don't think that counts as fundie in general (although there are fundie Catholics).

[louisa05]

Uhggg. Political fanaticism can be every bit as demanding and dangerous as religious fanaticism. This is one reason why I don't quite buy that religious extremism is itself a mental illness (and therefore somehow different from all the other forms of extremism one can find). I do think, however, that extremists may be more prone to mental illness - maybe from prolonged exposure to a fanatical sub-culture and the cognitive dissonance between believing your superiors or believing what your own senses tell you.

I also think pretty much anyone, given the right circumstances, could get sucked into something like that whether the ideology they follow is religious or not. The idea they're really just over-grown eight-year-olds is kind of insulting, actually, and more than a little bit naive.

I probably didn't state the idea well. I actually went to a seminar on faith formation once while teaching in a Catholic school that talked about how spiritual understanding and development mirrors cognitive development but many people don't engage enough to develop spiritually beyond the stage where the world is relatively black and white and governed by rules. Not because they are stupid but because that kind of spiritual understanding is very complex and there is not always an outlet or help in developing it. We teach kids how to move into abstract, analytic, symbolic and hypothetical understanding of the world in our (good) school curriculum, but churches often don't engage in that kind of teaching. So people can get stuck in their spiritual development. I find that people who have not moved beyond that kind of black and white rules oriented way of looking at faith and spirituality seem to gravitate toward fundamentalism, evangelicalism, and ideology that is spelled out and simple. And many of them don't want to or are afraid to think beyond the rules, so to speak. There is good and evil and nothing in between and it is easier that way. I also think that people who think beyond that in more abstract and complex terms are the ones that find they cannot remain in those kinds of movements even if they are attracted to them for other reasons as many here may have been for a season, including myself.

[Jana814]

I always thought they were mentally ill!

[doggie]

I can just see dragging a fundy kicking an screaming persecution to get his anti fundy shot. This treatment would be labeled the devils work.