Reason Caused The Holocaust

[debrand]

It is hard to know which part of this short article to leave out.

A Fox News guest criticized President Obama's transportation nominee on Thursday, saying that his declaration of a National Day of Reason was an example of the type of thinking that led to the Holocaust.

Thursday was the National Day of Prayer. Anthony Foxx — the mayor of Charlotte, North Carolina and Obama's pick to head the Department of Transportation — issued a proclamation for the National Day Of Reason in his city, as well.

Speaking on "Fox and Friends," guest Penny Nance — who is the CEO of Concerned Women for America — said she didn't understand why Foxx did that.

"You know, G. K. Chesterton said that the Doctrine of Original Sin is the only one which we have 3,000 years of empirical evidence to back up. Clearly, we need faith as a component and it’s just silly for us to say otherwise," she said.

Nance continued, "You know, the Age of Enlightenment and Reason gave way to moral relativism. And moral relativism is what led us all the way down the dark path to the Holocaust… Dark periods of history is what we arrive at when we leave God out of the equation."

It is the second year that Foxx has endorsed the National Day of Reason, which advocates the separation of church and state, in Charlotte. "The application of reason, more than any other means, has proven to offer hope for human survival on Earth," his proclamation rea

I worry about the future of my country.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/0 ... 02343.html

[debrand]

Okay, apparently viewing the Enlightenment as a threat to Christiandom is a thing

livedtheology.wordpress.com/2010/05/07/the-enlightenment-attack-on-christianity/

religiouscounterfeits.org/ml_enlightenment.htm

The 18th Century Enlightenment opened a frontal attack on God!

My brain began to rebel against reading the second link

visionforumministries.org/issues/news_and_reports/history_under_god.aspx

Rushdoony wasn't wild about The Enlightenment but slavery was hunky dory

The Enlightenment, by its savage and long-standing attack on Biblical faith, has brought about the long retreat of Christianity from a full-orbed faith to a kind of last-ditch battle centering around the doctrines of salvation and of the infallible Scripture. The time has come for a full-scale offensive, and it has indeed begun, to bring every area of thought into captivity to Christ, to establish the whole counsel of God and every implication of His infallible Word.[1] —R.J. Rushdoony

[Anxious Girl]

If it wasn't for the Age of Enlightenment; modern America wouldn't be here, Faux. Protestanism wouldn't be here either; and the only Christian religions people would be a part of would be Roman Catholic/Eastern Orthodox Christianity. I mean; where do they think that the founding fathers got their ideas/ideals about their new country from and how it should be run? Out of thin air?

[EyeQueue]

I'm getting damned tired of these people. If they're so rabidly anti-Enlightenment, I'd like to see them walk their walk and opt out of everything in our modern society that is a direct result of Enlightenment thinking: modern medical technology, computers, the internet, cars, etc., ad nauseum.

Won't do it? Then shut the fuck up.

[wtylcf]

oooh, is this about that Doug Wilson book in favour of medieval Christianity, which seems to be full of specious claims about medieval thought? Arguing for some supposed purer version of the faith unbesmirched by "modernity?" There's this guy's blog I read sometimes which is unusually pretentious and long-winded for a fundie who seems to believe that the enlightenment was a source of evil as well.

Said fundie's "about" section states, "I’m essentially medieval in my outlook on life," and I scratched my head and thought to myself, "dude, you are posting this on a wordpress blog in 2013 and you think you're medieval in your outlook on life? And you're also a Calvinist at the same time and you don't see a contradiction between these two claims? And you just recently wrote a giant post about the miraculous birth of your third child, whose delivery went so sideways that in spite of careful planning and early medical intervention you almost lost both her and your wife and doctors couldn't believe they both survived? And you have the audacity to claim you are 'against modernity,' the same modernity that gave those doctors the tools and training to save both their lives? IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE!"

the doug wilson abomination is here: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1122 ... mpted=true

and the bizarrely "medieval" fundie guy is here: michaelduchemin.com

To give credit where credit is due, the guy seems to really love his wife and family and to be somewhat intelligent, even if he has his head buried up Doug Wilson's ass.

ETA: the Wilson book claims its vision is for a "medieval protestantism," a term which ought to elicit an appalled grimace of disgust on the face of any thinking person. ("But those two ideas do not belong together!" we protest in vain...)

[Arete]

The Concerned Women For America need to STFU, get back in the kitchen, and stop giving interviews on Fox.

[snarkyjan]

oooh, is this about that Doug Wilson book in favour of medieval Christianity, which seems to be full of specious claims about medieval thought? Arguing for some supposed purer version of the faith unbesmirched by "modernity?" There's this guy's blog I read sometimes which is unusually pretentious and long-winded for a fundie who seems to believe that the enlightenment was a source of evil as well.

Said fundie's "about" section states, "I’m essentially medieval in my outlook on life," and I scratched my head and thought to myself, "dude, you are posting this on a wordpress blog in 2013 and you think you're medieval in your outlook on life? And you're also a Calvinist at the same time and you don't see a contradiction between these two claims? And you just recently wrote a giant post about the miraculous birth of your third child, whose delivery went so sideways that in spite of careful planning and early medical intervention you almost lost both her and your wife and doctors couldn't believe they both survived? And you have the audacity to claim you are 'against modernity,' the same modernity that gave those doctors the tools and training to save both their lives? IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE!"

the doug wilson abomination is here: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1122 ... mpted=true

and the bizarrely "medieval" fundie guy is here: michaelduchemin.com

To give credit where credit is due, the guy seems to really love his wife and family and to be somewhat intelligent, even if he has his head buried up Doug Wilson's ass.

ETA: the Wilson book claims its vision is for a "medieval protestantism," a term which ought to elicit an appalled grimace of disgust on the face of any thinking person. ("But those two ideas do not belong together!" we protest in vain...)

The solution is simple: send them both back to the year 1348, just as the Black Plague was breaking out

[debrand]

Amazon allows a sneak peek into Wilson's book. It opens with these words:

Modernity or medievalism? That is admittedly an odd choice and it is the topic of this admittedly odd book. But at our place in history it appears the only choice before us

Really? Has Wilson never read about the Middle Ages? For much of human kind, it was an unpleasant time to be alive.

According to the writer the middle ages was the closest time that we have to a 'mature Christian culture."

Does he not understand that many people could not read and lived short, sometimes brutal lives without much travel or knowledge of the world beyond their birthplace? Most of us would not have been princes or princess. If we lived during the Middle Ages, most of us would have been poor, land bound peasants.

He says that if modernity hates medievalism so much there must be beauty there? I didn't know that ages could hate each other. I certainly don't hate the Middle Ages, the Victorian Age or any other age, but I do not want to go back to those time periods.

http://www.amazon.com/Angels-Architectu ... 1885767404

And thanks to a negative review, I discovered that the same Doug Wilson wrote an apology for the old South and Slavery

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/188576 ... r_asin_lnk

[Effie]

Why do fundies make up their own facts?

[Salamander]

Nance continued, "You know, the Age of Enlightenment and Reason gave way to moral relativism. And moral relativism is what led us all the way down the dark path to the Holocaust… Dark periods of history is what we arrive at when we leave God out of the equation."

The Nazis used Christian theology to justify the Holocaust. See also: [link=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity]Positive Christianity[/link] (a movement within Nazi Germany) and [link=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Christians]German Christians[/link] (a historical group that predated and later supported Nazism). But I'm sure they aren't "real Christians" to him because it's easier to kick people out of the jesus club than to grapple with why people who profess the same faith, worship the same god, and study the same holy book arrive at wildly different conclusions as to how Christianity should be practiced.

[louisa05]

If it wasn't for the Age of Enlightenment; modern America wouldn't be here, Faux. Protestanism wouldn't be here either; and the only Christian religions people would be a part of would be Roman Catholic/Eastern Orthodox Christianity. I mean; where do they think that the founding fathers got their ideas/ideals about their new country from and how it should be run? Out of thin air?

Not thin air. They think they got it from the Bible. I'm not kidding you. There are whole books written to explain that the principles of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution are "biblical". It requires a lot of acrobatics to make that at all plausible, but they are determined to convince the world. David Barton is currently at the forefront of this revisionism.

Teaching eleventh grade American history at a Catholic school, I had my students examine closely how enlightenment philosophy and ideals informed our founding fathers. We had two fundie lite families at the school. They went berserk, tried to get me fired, brought me books by revisionists and had their kids disrupt class to explain to me that it was all from the Bible. When I taught at a Christian school, the American history texts did not even include the influence of enlightenment thought.

[Anxious Girl]

Not thin air. They think they got it from the Bible. I'm not kidding you. There are whole books written to explain that the principles of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution are "biblical". It requires a lot of acrobatics to make that at all plausible, but they are determined to convince the world. David Barton is currently at the forefront of this revisionism.

Teaching eleventh grade American history at a Catholic school, I had my students examine closely how enlightenment philosophy and ideals informed our founding fathers. We had two fundie lite families at the school. They went berserk, tried to get me fired, brought me books by revisionists and had their kids disrupt class to explain to me that it was all from the Bible. When I taught at a Christian school, the American history texts did not even include the influence of enlightenment thought.

:shock: :pink-shock: Holy shit, you have got to be kidding me. I'm a deist who grew up Roman Catholic that has their view of Mary, prayers and saints; but Holy shit. This makes the inner history geek in me utterly angry. Even my homophobic priest (he was the reason I stopped going to Church) agrees that not all ideas come from Christianity and that Christianity took ideas from earlier pagan 1s and blended them with their own and or some of them their own. Most Roman Catholics I know accept evolution. Again, Holy shit.

Out of curiosity, what state did you teach in?

[doggie]

Why do fundies make up their own facts?

well because otherwise they would have no facts at all.

[oil]

Please help me understand what this means. Thank you!

[louisa05]

:shock: :pink-shock: Holy shit, you have got to be kidding me. I'm a deist who grew up Roman Catholic that has their view of Mary, prayers and saints; but Holy shit. This makes the inner history geek in me utterly angry. Even my homophobic priest (he was the reason I stopped going to Church) agrees that not all ideas come from Christianity and that Christianity took ideas from earlier pagan 1s and blended them with their own and or some of them their own. Most Roman Catholics I know accept evolution. Again, Holy shit.

Out of curiosity, what state did you teach in?

Nebraska.

I should clarify a bit. The admins at Catholic school supported me completely when these families (neither Catholic)went nuts about the unit. The curriculum included the material before I got there, I simply added to it. Our textbooks were from publishers widely used by public schools as well. And, yes, evolution was taught at the Catholic school. The fundie lite families pulled their kids out of science during that section.

The Christian school was a different thing entirely. I taught World History there. I had a lot of problems that I could write a book about--and the textbooks--A Beka Books produced by Pensacola Christian College--were a revisionist nightmare. But history was a cake walk compared to teaching American Government there. That is where my real nightmares occurred.

[debrand]

Please help me understand what this means. Thank you!

Tell me what confuses you and I will try to help :)

[2xx1xy1JD]

oooh, is this about that Doug Wilson book in favour of medieval Christianity, which seems to be full of specious claims about medieval thought? Arguing for some supposed purer version of the faith unbesmirched by "modernity?" There's this guy's blog I read sometimes which is unusually pretentious and long-winded for a fundie who seems to believe that the enlightenment was a source of evil as well.

Said fundie's "about" section states, "I’m essentially medieval in my outlook on life," and I scratched my head and thought to myself, "dude, you are posting this on a wordpress blog in 2013 and you think you're medieval in your outlook on life? And you're also a Calvinist at the same time and you don't see a contradiction between these two claims? And you just recently wrote a giant post about the miraculous birth of your third child, whose delivery went so sideways that in spite of careful planning and early medical intervention you almost lost both her and your wife and doctors couldn't believe they both survived? And you have the audacity to claim you are 'against modernity,' the same modernity that gave those doctors the tools and training to save both their lives? IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE!"

the doug wilson abomination is here: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1122 ... mpted=true

and the bizarrely "medieval" fundie guy is here: michaelduchemin.com

To give credit where credit is due, the guy seems to really love his wife and family and to be somewhat intelligent, even if he has his head buried up Doug Wilson's ass.

ETA: the Wilson book claims its vision is for a "medieval protestantism," a term which ought to elicit an appalled grimace of disgust on the face of any thinking person. ("But those two ideas do not belong together!" we protest in vain...)

:worship: I'm a sucker for a logical argument.

Perhaps they could use a decent history lesson - one that shows where the Protestant Reformation fell in relation to the Middle Ages.